/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2022/08/16/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== lan3y is now known as Laney
=== Laney is now known as laney
=== WaVeR` is now known as WaVeR
sarnoldgood morning14:32
slyonhello o/14:33
slyonI think c_paelzer is out at a sprint. So maybe I can run the meeting again.14:34
slyon#startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status14:34
meetingologyMeeting started at 14:34:33 UTC.  The chair is slyon.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology14:34
meetingologyAvailable commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick14:34
slyonPing for MIR meeting - didrocks joalif slyon sarnold cpaelzer jamespage14:34
slyon#topic current component mismatches14:34
slyonMission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams14:34
slyon#link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg14:34
slyon#link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg14:34
slyon-release looks all fine14:35
sarnoldI'm loving the new 'known false positives' bug :)14:35
slyon:)14:35
slyon-proposed: libwacom -> python-libevdev is a new component mismatch..14:36
slyonthe source is a desktop package, so I'd like to ask didrocks to investigate14:36
slyon(who apparently isn't here today, so maybe postpone to next week)14:36
sarnoldthat's getting mighty close to feature freeze14:37
slyonright. but I think promotions to main are usually not cosidered feature freeze critical (unless they explicitly are for enabling new features, of course)14:38
slyoninetutils looks interesting, never saw such mismatch before (dependency on itself)...14:39
slyonit seems to be related to telnet, which is a foundations package, so I'll try to investigate what's going on there.14:39
sarnoldoh wow, heh I missed that..14:39
slyonalso gsasl -> libgssglue seems new, it's foundations, too. I'll ask jawn-smith about that, who did the other mutt related MIRs14:40
slyon#topic New MIRs14:40
slyonMission: ensure to assign all incoming reviews for fast processing14:40
slyon#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir14:41
slyonwe have bug #198659114:41
ubottuBug 1986591 in fstrm (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fstrm" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198659114:41
slyonsarnold: you had some opinion on this apparently?14:41
sarnoldslyon: mostly I wanted to push back against adding these packages to main in focal14:42
sarnoldslyon: as far as I know there's no business demand for this feature; I'm completely fine with community-driven feature requests, but doing a ton of work for it on a two year old release doesn't seem productive to me14:42
slyonI agree. And I think we should postpone this to next week, too. So we can discuss the case with more MIR team members.14:43
slyonso, leaving it open and moving on.14:43
slyon#topic Incomplete bugs / questions14:43
slyonMission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams14:43
slyon#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir14:43
slyonbug #1963707 is still pending the "hw available for testing?" question14:44
ubottuBug 1963707 in libqrtr-glib (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libqrtr-glib" [Low, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196370714:44
sarnoldaha, nice, I wondered why it was back :)14:44
slyonbug #1909665 is still incomplete (does not have a MIR template). It should probably be assigned to whoever is working on this14:45
ubottuBug 1909665 in lua5.4 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ibus-libpinyin dependencies" [Low, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190966514:45
sarnoldlua transition, is that a foundations thing?14:45
slyonno. it's server14:46
slyonat least lua5.3 is subscribed to ~ubuntu-server14:47
sarnoldokay, having read more of the bug I think you're right, ubuntu-server, and it feels like they're pretty close :)14:48
slyonyes. so let's keep it open until ready, maybe next week.14:48
sarnoldcomment #13 does suggest it might be a few months -- is it fine to leave it in this list until then? or should we move it to ubuntu-server so they don't lose track of it?14:49
sarnoldI don't want to be hectoring about it :) but I also would hate for it to be overlooked when it feels close14:49
slyonsarnold: that's a good idea! We should assign ubuntu-server14:49
sarnolddone14:50
slyonthx14:50
slyonbug #1986592 is incomplete. I'll assign it to the reporter, to make it disappear from our list until ready14:50
ubottuBug 1986592 in openconnect (Ubuntu) "[MIR] network-manager-openconnect, openconnect" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198659214:50
sarnoldgood idea14:50
sarnoldI have stronger opinions here14:50
sarnoldwe do not need every single popularly used vpn in main14:50
slyonsarnold: could you put that as a comment into the LP bug report?14:52
sarnoldopenconnect sounds like it may be better than the proprietary stuff it is meant to replace, but it almost always interops with horrible old proprietary junk that's a decade behind the times, or more14:52
slyonto start a discussion before the reporter puts lots of effort in preparing the MIR templates14:53
slyon#topic MIR related Security Review Queue14:54
slyonMission: Check on progress, do deadlines seem doable?14:54
slyon#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=%5BMIR%5D&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir14:54
slyonsarnold: any news on the security reviews?14:55
sarnoldmark esler has been an absolute machine chewing through MIRs :) I'm feeling so much better about this list today than eg two weeks ago14:55
sarnoldI'm concerned about nullboot; chrisccoulson's time is limited and in very high demand14:56
slyonanything we can help with wrt nullboot? to speed things up? cc juliank ^14:56
sarnoldall the smart-card related packages are shared security/desktop, and so long as our security certifications team is short-staffed I can't imagine those getting traction14:56
sarnoldnothing comes to mind; I'll ask chris when he thinks he might be able to get to it, but as usual, there's almost always a steady-stream of high-priority Interrupt-Driven sorts of needs..14:58
jbichaslyon: I asked about hardware for libqrtr-glib. I don't think the desktop team has access to this hardware directly. We need to check with Canonical's hardware certification team14:59
slyonjbicha: thanks for the update. we'll keep tracking the bug as "Incomplete" until there is a testing opportunity14:59
slyonsarnold: wrt nullboot: I cannot find a definitive deadline in the MIR report. but it seems to be entangled with enabling FDE functionallity, which might bring up some discussions during the next sprint15:01
sarnolddefinintely :)15:01
slyon#topic Any other business?15:01
sarnoldnone here15:01
slyonwe had very little attendence during today's meeting, which is sad :(15:02
slyonthanks for being here and updating things with me sarnold!15:02
slyon#endmeeting15:02
meetingologyMeeting ended at 15:02:41 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-08-16-14.34.moin.txt15:02
sarnoldthanks slyon :)15:02
sarnoldoh, heh, the meeting actually has properly declined notes from folks who didn't show (as well as folks who can't show :)15:03
slyonindeed! I didn't see that before :)15:03
slyonand it's summer time, people might be on vacation15:04
sarnold*nod*15:04
juliankslyon: we're shipping nullboot to CVM already I think, would be good to get it done15:08
juliankslyon: chris wrote all security bits of it, so he can't really review it I suppose15:08
sarnoldlol15:09
sarnoldwhile that's a strong vote in favor of it being done right, that also complicates finding someone to review this :)15:09
juliankyou could say chris reviewed the bits already :D15:10
vorloncyphermox: hi, are you here today? :)18:54
rbasako/19:00
* vorlon waves19:00
vorlonsil2100 is OoO today and declined the meeting in his google calendar, so I think we're dependent on cyphermox's IRC client being a pointer to an actually present cyphermox for us to be quorate19:00
vorloncyphermox_: hi?19:05
cyphermox_Hi19:05
vorlonhurray19:05
cyphermox_Almost there, on my phone19:05
cyphermox_Are we quorate? I do not have access to backlog19:09
sarnoldcyphermox_: just rbasak, vorlon, and you :)19:10
cyphermox_Oh yay19:10
vorlon#startmeeting19:10
meetingologyMeeting started at 19:10:23 UTC.  The chair is vorlon.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology19:10
meetingologyAvailable commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick19:10
vorlon#topic Action review19:10
vorlonACTION: (everyone) review the Ubuntu Backports Team Charter for ratification19:11
rbasakStill pending I think.19:11
vorlonI recently stumbled across this in one of my browser tabs; I guess this is still a current action we need to follow through on, so carry-over19:12
vorlonACTION: (everyone) formal ratification of third party seeded snap security policy (finalize wording on the Google Doc)19:12
vorlonrbasak: is that an accurate current action, I think we were waiting for you to finalize drafting?19:12
vorlon#action (everyone) review the Ubuntu Backports Team Charter for ratification19:12
meetingologyACTION: (everyone) review the Ubuntu Backports Team Charter for ratification19:12
rbasakI did have a draft that I proposed quite a long time ago to the ubuntu-backports@ list, but haven't really had a response.19:14
rbasakI'll need to take it up with the backporters team to find a solution.19:14
vorlonrbasak: sorry, I was asking about the snap security policy ratification19:15
rbasakOh. Right. I'm still working on that. I have been making some progress in the doc.19:15
vorlonshould I replace this action with one for you?19:15
rbasakSure19:15
rbasakAssuming everyone is happy with the rest of the doc?19:15
vorlon#action rbasak to finalize third-party seeded snap security policy19:16
meetingologyACTION: rbasak to finalize third-party seeded snap security policy19:16
rbasakI'm working on analysing/assessing/speaking to stakeholders of existing snaps19:16
vorlonI was happy with the doc last I looked :) cyphermox_ had you reviewed it recently?19:16
cyphermox_Yes, I was happy with it as well19:16
vorlonexcellent19:17
vorlonACTION: vorlon to circle around with store, snapcraft, et all, and revise the snap source revision policy to be more clear with regards to rebuildability and GPL compliance. (rbasak, 19:06)19:17
vorlonI've been postponing this until the draft is finalized because I think it will be subsumed; I'll carry over19:18
vorlon#action vorlon to circle around with store, snapcraft, et all, and revise the snap source revision policy to be more clear with regards to rebuildability and GPL compliance.19:18
meetingologyACTION: vorlon to circle around with store, snapcraft, et all, and revise the snap source revision policy to be more clear with regards to rebuildability and GPL compliance.19:18
vorlonACTION: sil2100 to start a draft summarizing the OEM archive portion of the meeting which x-nox and TB will review, edit, and ratify before we move on to figuring out the next step19:18
vorlonsil2100 not here so carrying over19:18
vorlon#action sil2100 to start a draft summarizing the OEM archive portion of the meeting which x-nox and TB will review, edit, and ratify before we move on to figuring out the next step19:18
meetingologyACTION: sil2100 to start a draft summarizing the OEM archive portion of the meeting which x-nox and TB will review, edit, and ratify before we move on to figuring out the next step19:18
vorlonACTION: rbasak to draft a proposal of the DMB-proposed inactivity expiration policy for TB ratification19:18
vorlonrbasak: still current?19:18
rbasakYes that's on me still19:19
vorlon#action rbasak to draft a proposal of the DMB-proposed inactivity expiration policy for TB ratification19:19
meetingologyACTION: rbasak to draft a proposal of the DMB-proposed inactivity expiration policy for TB ratification19:19
vorlonACTION: cyphermox to follow up with the CC regarding the TB nominations and election19:19
vorloncyphermox: ?19:19
vorloncyphermox: are you still on point for talking to the CC about TB elections?19:21
cyphermox_Yes19:21
cyphermox_I had, but I guess we'll need to contact again19:21
vorlonok19:22
vorlon#action cyphermox to re-ping the CC regarding the TB nominations and election19:22
meetingologyACTION: cyphermox to re-ping the CC regarding the TB nominations and election19:22
vorlonthat's it for previous actions19:22
vorlon#topic Definition of our third party repository policy. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1apUKR4gtOrfPGCWmtoebaQUhoy-fG8Cyo3VKJyhnpD0/edit19:22
vorlonthat's on the agenda, but is covered by the previous carry-over action for rbasak19:23
vorlonso I don't think we need to discuss this?19:23
rbasakYeah it's the same item19:23
vorlon#topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)19:23
rbasak"New Official Flavor Process Issues"19:24
rbasakI think this is on me from the last meeting, and I've been working on this.19:24
vorlon#link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2022-July/002648.html19:24
vorlonI see you just shared a google doc with me, thanks for that19:24
rbasakI've shared a draft with the TB and Release Team admins (vorlon and sil2100)19:24
rbasakAlso for ItzSwirlz and Eickmeyer19:25
vorlonI'd welcome it being shared with other members of the release team if you think it's far enough along to do so, more eyes -> shallow bugs etc19:25
rbasak(I need a Google account address for Eickmeyer)19:26
vorlon(to make me less of a bottleneck)19:26
rbasakSure - I just need the addresses. The Canonical members I can find.19:26
rbasakAny other release team members interested, please give me addresses.19:26
vorloncurrently all active release team members are Canonical employees, unfortunately :/19:27
vorlon(tumbleweed dips in and out occasionally)19:27
rbasakNot laney19:27
vorlonhe's a member of the launchpad team but not active so I don't think it's worth chasing him on this19:27
rbasakOh, "active"19:27
rbasakBut I don't have a list of active members19:28
vorlonright, I'm saying if you grab the canonical folks on there it's close enough19:28
rbasakI've just added everyone I have addresses for as it's not up to me to say who is active and who isn't.19:28
vorlonthanks19:29
vorlon#link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2022-August/002661.html19:29
vorlonthere's also this, which is an invitation for TB members to go to Prague in November19:29
vorlonI will be in Prague the week prior, but not able to stick around for the Ubuntu Summit19:29
rbasakI will be there.19:29
vorlonrbasak: for the summit?19:30
rbasakI believe sil2100 will also be there.19:30
rbasakYes19:30
vorlonah, nice19:30
vorloncyphermox: do you want to go? :)19:30
vorlonanyway we don't have to settle that here19:30
cyphermox_Yeah i think so19:30
vorloncyphermox_: nice! I guess you will follow up with Mauro then?19:31
cyphermox_I'll need to look into it19:31
cyphermox_Yes I will19:31
vorlon\o/19:31
Fallenfwiw from earlier, I had reached out to the CC as well on various elections coming up, I will reping them as well.19:31
vorlonFallen: excellent, thank you (and hello!)19:32
cyphermox_Cool19:32
Falleno/19:32
vorlon#topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)19:32
vorlonhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard is empty19:32
vorlon#topic Select a chair for the next meeting (next from https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members)19:33
vorlonthat looks to be sil2100, with cyphermox_ as backup19:33
cyphermox_Sounds good to me and I shall have my IRC solider before then19:34
vorlon#agreed next chair: sil2100, backup: cyphermox_19:34
meetingologyAGREED: next chair: sil2100, backup: cyphermox_19:34
vorlon#topic AOB19:34
vorlonteh one thing I thought might be AOB was actually covered wrt the mailing list review19:34
rbasakGreat. Thanks for chairing!19:35
vorlonwe do have Fallen here who is Canonical's new manager of the Community Team19:35
vorlonnot sure if he has anything he wants to ask us today, as he was looking to connect :)19:35
FallenI've gone through my notes and I think I have a good start to get things rolling. I do have a few things I could chat about19:36
vorlonwe can probably adjourn the meeting and stick around to chat?19:37
FallenMy first question might be answered, I was wondering how the TB tracks their larger projects - does this happen via the LP link in ubuntu-community?19:37
FallenSure!19:37
vorlon#endmeeting19:37
meetingologyMeeting ended at 19:37:38 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-08-16-19.10.moin.txt19:37
vorloncyphermox_, rbasak: thanks!19:37
cyphermox_Yes, that and mailing list19:38
vorlonFallen: I don't recall ever using the bug link for larger TB-initiated projects, that's generally an entry point for others assigning things to us19:38
vorlon(often administrative things, like setting up packagesets in Launchpad for the Ubuntu archive)19:38
vorlonI think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda and the mailing list is really how things are tracked over time19:39
rbasakDoes the TB even have larger projects?19:39
vorlonwell the snap policy question has been ongoing for a while19:39
rbasakUsually I'd expect larger projects to be done by delegated teams19:39
cyphermox_Well we have some of these long term documentation things like the third parhy policy19:39
rbasakYes that's probably the largest thing19:39
rbasakI suppose then the answer is that these things are tracked through action items or other standing items in our agenda19:40
cyphermox_Some of these translate to huge mailing list threads19:40
FallenDocumentation was my primary thought. Generally though I think it would be great if there is a thing we can point to to show people "this is what <insert council here> is currently working on"19:40
rbasakThat would be useful.19:41
rbasak"We're working on a way to better track what we're working on"19:41
FallenHeh so true :D It might also help move things along a bit quicker, to me if there is a list like this it encourages me to put effort onto the council work that I volunteer on.19:43
sarnoldthere was a bit of a longer-term project https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2021-June/002560.html19:43
FallenIt seems a launchpad project might be the historically correct way to do this, but I'm also open to other systems. Maybe something to think about until the next TB meeting?19:43
vorlonI don't know how ingrained the use of ubuntu-community is or how many places there might be documentation pointing people to use that for TB bugs; but it certainly has been an issue in the past that we don't have a clean way to get launchpad email notifications for our ubuntu-community bugs19:45
vorlonso maybe a separate LP project would be useful, with a committment to continue tracking the existing bug list and whenever we see things there, make sure folks are pointed to the new project and that we fix any documentation?19:46
cyphermox_+119:47
rbasakvorlon: the problem is that ordinary people can't assign an ubuntu-community bug to ~techboard19:47
rbasak(which was the official process)19:47
vorlonunfortunately I adjourned the meeting so we can't record actions ;P but I can post to the mailing list suggesting this, to make sure we're all on board before I go changing things in LP19:47
vorlonrbasak: oh, was assignment the problem? ick19:48
FallenI would see this more as a tool for you all to track your work based on the input you receive from others on the list etc, so others directly assigning to ~techboard might actually be counterproductive.19:49
rbasak+1 for an LP project BTW. Bugs seem like the simplest thing to do that will work, and a separate project will resolve the previous issue.19:49
cyphermox_A separate project would solve this anwyY19:49
vorlonFallen: we know how to unassign ourselves and close bugs ;)19:50
rbasakAnd we can track actual stuff that we're committing to using a Triaged state or similar.19:50
rbasakNow we just need to bikeshed the name?19:50
vorlonyep - on the mailing list please ;-)19:51
vorlonFallen: anything else? fwiw I have a soft stop in 9 minutes for lunch19:51
FallenHeh ok, that is fair :) Sounds great!19:51
sarnoldmm lunch19:51
FallenYes, one more, we can keep it brief and continue discussion soon: I wanted to talk a bit about documentation.19:52
FallenOne thing I'd like the community and Canonical to work on is to improve the documentation about how the community can participate. In your case, also indirectly through subgroups, this might relate to some of the perks people can recieve such as MOTU, and how to become a flavor.19:53
vorlonimprovement of documentation about official flavors is in progress thanks to rbasak, as discussed earlier19:55
FallenYes, very much appreciated! If I can help round up folks to support you I'm very happy to. fwiw I'm working on getting a docs frontend up similar to https://anbox-cloud.io/docs which we can use for documentation of community facing issues.19:56
FallenAre there any other areas that you think would be worthwhile to improve documentation on?19:57
vorlon(fwiw though I agree with improving the documentation, I don't foresee this making a significant difference in the throughput of flavors, both because a flavor is a significant committment over time, and because we don't have infinite capacity to incorporate official flavors into the ecosystem)19:57
vorlonwell it's not specifically under the TB's purview, but I would like for the Ubuntu community collectively to do some work on consolidating and cleaning up the wiki documentation for new contributors19:58
FallenI agree, and I think the capacity overhead is something we should consider, and set clear expectations on. Frustrating if someone does put in the effort, but in the end the blocking factor is that we don't believe we have the capacity overhead for it.19:58
vorlonI think it was mentioned recently that there's still some stuff referencing bzr19:58
FallenYes, that was likely me in the product sprint :)19:59
vorlonhah20:00
FallenEventually decommissioning the wiki is on my wishlist! Given we are at the hour I'll leave you to the next thing, but if there are any areas of documentation directly in the TB's purview maybe we could talk about that next time.20:00
vorlonFallen: cheers. thanks for the chat!20:01
cyphermox_Ah, interesting, I was just wondering about that given discourse and all20:01
FallenLikewise, thank you for the insights!20:01
vorlon(fwiw actually decommisioning the wiki properly would be a huge project and I'm not on board with it ;)20:02
FallenOh final note, you are all very much invited to #ubuntu-community-team, my team is using this for day to day work discussions, and I've also invited the CC to join :)20:03
cyphermox_I will join tomorrow when I am not on my phone20:03

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