[02:27] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:15] <wez> AFternoon!
[03:16] <arraybolt3[m]> 10:16 PM over here but whatever.
[03:17] <wez> 13:17!
[03:18]  * arraybolt3[m] thinks that means we're probably on near-opposite sides of the globe
[06:48] <guiverc> I'll have to agree with wez' reading of the clock; my machine timestamped his 13:17! at 13:17:46 :)
[10:53] <ice9> why canonical is pushing on snap that much?
[10:54] <ice9> what's wrong with traditional package manger apt
[10:56] <daftykins> preparing packages is hell apparently, plus your software depends on system libraries that stay stuck in the past - flatpak, snap and others are about integrating all components so that an app works no matter what (TM)
[10:56] <wez> ice9: I don't know, they seem to have a knack of choosing the worst tech since when ever netplan / network manager was added to it, it went down hill
[10:56] <daftykins> heh yeah they always back the wrong horse, it's classic
[10:57] <wez> I mean I get the issue they are trying to solve, but really?
[10:57] <wez> daftykins: Yeah, some people say switching to systemd was another example of backing the wrong horse
[10:57] <wez> Although I am getting used to systemd
[10:59] <daftykins> i didn't have enough experience before, so from where i'm standing it's the holdouts avoiding it that look like sticks in the mud :D
[10:59] <ogra> daftykins, what do you mean by backing the wrong horse ? 
[11:00] <daftykins> historically speaking Canonical has often invested in choices that didn't pan out, is all
[11:00] <ogra> snaps came into existence in 2014 ... should canonical have thrown away the work, kick out the commercial customers using it and move to flatpak when it was created by redhat in 2016 ?
[11:01] <daftykins> i don't know anything about the package formats, that remark was really referring to prior things
[11:01] <wez> daftykins: Remember Cananicols cloud storage offering?
[11:01] <wez> Is that still a thing?
[11:01] <daftykins> nope
[11:01] <wez> Remember their phone OS?
[11:01] <ogra> only the login parts 
[11:02] <wez> using QTxml of something horrid
[11:02] <daftykins> ("nope" as in i don't recall one)
[11:02] <ogra> it still exists ... 
[11:02] <ogra> www.ubports.com ... 
[11:04] <ogra> also, Ubuntu Core is a direct outcome of the phone work (and quite a commercial success in industrial, digital signage, embedded, IoT ... )
[11:05] <ogra> (automotive ... robotics ... and a lot more)
[11:05] <wez> oooohhh
[11:06] <ogra> and even though it shares some concepts with redhats silverblue ... it is again several years older (and in production in many places so it wont go away)
[11:10] <ogra> canonical has often been the innovator in the crowd with the "failed" tech you point to ... i.e. systemd would not exist today if upstart had not been created ... (and if scott and lennard would have goten along a bit better and if lennart would not have started working at RH who forbid to sign the CLA for code contributions) 
[20:49] <arraybolt3[m]> leftyfb: Change "jammy" to "kinetic"?
[20:50] <leftyfb> arraybolt3[m]: that is the only other way to upgrade releases without the use of d-r-u
[20:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Martin Wimpress's Rolling Rhino script changes it to "devel" and it supposedly makes Ubuntu into a rolling release kinda.
[20:51] <arraybolt3[m]> I have to go afk for a while, sorry
[21:57]  * arraybolt3[m] has returned
[21:57] <arraybolt3[m]> (At least I think it changes the data in sources.list to "devel" looking at the script itself.)
[21:57] <daftykins> phew, we're saved!