[05:53] <Fallen> ilvipero: https://opensource.com/article/22/9/measure-success-your-open-source-event
[05:55] <ilvipero> Fallen: thanks for sharing!
[06:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Fallen: Anything happening as far as the documentation initiative?
[06:02]  * arraybolt3[m] is looking forward to working on migrating stuff
[06:04] <Fallen> Will take a look today. I unfortunately didn't get a response in #ubuntu-doc, so I am just going to go ahead and use that channel for the call to action. I think the final steps might be to set up the launchpad project (or find an existing one?) and then post to discourse.
[06:07] <arraybolt3[m]> Launchpad's search isn't being very helpful :P
[06:09] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm not finding anything on Launchpad so far, should I make an "Ubuntu Wiki Migration Team" or something like that? Or should I let you create it?
[06:13] <arraybolt3> (Or maybe "wiki migration team" is too strict - perhaps "Ubuntu Community Documentation Team" or something like that?)
[06:15] <Fallen> Not to be confused with https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc :)
[06:16] <Fallen> The CC owns the doc team, so maybe we need to check with them on how to best approach that part and how well it should be integrated into the existing doc team
[06:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Fallen: According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam, it appears they only handle technical documentation, whereas we're worried with community documentation.
[06:18] <arraybolt3[m]> (At some point we'll probably want to or need to tackle the technical documentation too, especially since (IIRC) wiki.ubuntu.com has technical info scattered through it, but for now it seems separate.)
[06:21] <Fallen> Yeah, Daniele our Director of Documentation also preferred we scope this effort to the governance and contrib docs also wanted this to be reflected in the name of the initiative. His best guess was "Community Governance Documentation Team" but he admitted it isn't a 100% fit. 
[06:21] <Fallen> I would find it confusing if there is a documentation team based in the community, and a community documentation team.
[06:22] <Fallen> I have yet to have my first coffee, but I think it might make sense to expand the scope of the doc team and make community governance an initiative in that team.
[06:22] <Fallen> This way we might also benefit from reeling in some contributors in that area
[06:22] <arraybolt3[m]> That's pretty good, but true, "governance" doesn't quite work. I'll think about it and let you know if I come up with anything better.
[06:22] <Fallen> Exactly
[06:23] <Fallen> Thank you, I'll put some additional thought into it as well. Great job on the scope and communication section btw, you even used the Diataxis categories!
[06:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks, figuring out how to get the stuff to fit Diataxis was a bit tricky, but it made it feel and look better.
[06:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Fallen: I told my best friend about our thing with trying to name our team, and between the two of us we got together some name ideas:
[06:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Ubuntu Community Standards Team (I think this one is the best)
[06:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Team Standards Documentation Team
[06:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Ubuntu Community Operational Documentation Team
[06:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Or maybe "Ubuntu Community Standards Documentation Team"?
[07:22] <Fallen> Some good suggestions! To add one to the bikeshedding: "Community Governance & Contribution Docs Team" :)
[07:23] <Fallen> A few gems I've found browsing the wiki stats: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLiveChatSupport http://web.archive.org/web/20190206071311/https://shop.canonical.com/ (indirectly, via /t-shirts)
[07:23] <arraybolt3> Oh lotuspsychje would LOVE it if we pulled that off, I bet.
[07:24] <Fallen> Yes, lotuspsychje came to mind immediately :D
[07:26] <arraybolt3> Whew, it's *ancient* but looks perfect. Not sure it would be worth trying to resurrect the old code, but writing a reboot shouldn't be too tricky I would think.
[07:29] <arraybolt3> I dunno, it seems so cool, but it might be easier to just throw a "Live Chat Support" button into Yelp and call it a day.
[07:29] <arraybolt3> (Though if we did resurrect it and got every flavor to accept it, that might be really cool.)
[07:36] <arraybolt3> Maybe we could even go as far as writing our own simple IRC client just for Ubuntu tech support. (This idea is rapidly exploding in my mind LOL)
[07:38] <Fallen> Ref standards xkcd, but for irc clients ;-)
[07:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess really, the list of IRC support channels is probably already enough for helping a user get to IRC, and there already is one universal IRC client - the webchat. Maybe we could just make a simple desktop file that autolaunched the default browser pointing to the IRC channel list - that would work for every single flavor and take an extremely low amount of effort (as in, I could probably write the package tonight,
[07:43] <arraybolt3[m]> and have it tested and submitted tomorrow).
[07:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Though the auto-locale linking of the live chat support app would be very nice to have.
[07:45] <arraybolt3[m]> But I think I know a way to make even that happen without having to code a whole entire app from scratch.
[07:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, sorry to be noisy, I'll keep thinking about it elsewhere and maybe bring it up again if I have a fully formed plan.
[08:14] <Fallen> No need to apologize, good to think through a few things! (making breakfast, therefore haven't responded:)
[08:23] <alkisg> Last time I checked, most locale channels weren't really active (with a few notable exceptions), so most people prefer the global ones
[08:27] <arraybolt3[m]> alkisg: I can see people in all of the locale channels I've checked so far. Even ones with only a few people in them may still be active enough - for instance, #lubuntu-es looks nearly dead, but one of our Lubuntu Members, Roberalz, is in there and I'm pretty sure I've watched him do a couple of support sessions (I think I even did one with him).
[08:28] <arraybolt3[m]> (Er, I guess not watched but more like seen - I don't speak Spanish :P)
[08:29] <alkisg> Check the message history size, not how many people are in. Some greek channels have 20 idlers and the last message was 5 years ago
[08:29] <alkisg> But even if one is active, it's usually not the best place for primary support, considering that most people either already know some english or can use google translate
[08:29] <alkisg> *if one person only is active
[08:30] <arraybolt3[m]> That's a good point.
[08:30] <alkisg> So e.g. while initially I was pointing greek teachers to greek support channels, after a couple of years I stopped doing that and I'm linking the english support channels now (since the last 10 years or so)
[09:17] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3[m] Fallen that livechat wiki looks pretty cool indeed!
[09:18] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3[m]: yelp direct chat support would be awesome indeed
[09:19] <lotuspsychje> also according to my hexchat/irc client wishlist, the other ubuntu flavours already have a more tight support system then ubuntu-desktop
[09:19] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hexchat/+bug/1831220
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> maybe alkisg could enlighten us more about how mate does it
[09:21] <lotuspsychje> does it have an irc client by default/ a help icon with mate support chat?
[09:22] <alkisg> There's an ubuntu-mate-welcome snap app that I've never seen because I uninstall snap right after the installation is finished :D
[09:23] <alkisg> I think I've seen hexchat preinstalled in past ubuntu mate versions, but not in recent ones
[09:23] <alkisg> What's wrong with using a browser-based irc client?
[09:23] <lotuspsychje> nothing, just wanted to know how mate does it
[09:24] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: this is the case for ubuntu-desktop; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/1988847
[09:27] <alkisg> https://ubuntu.com/support/community-support could indeed be much improved and not require 3 clicks to reach irc
[09:27] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[09:27] <lotuspsychje> does mate use yelp too?
[09:30] <alkisg> Yup
[09:32] <lotuspsychje> cool tnx
[09:32] <lotuspsychje> how about thunderbird alkisg 
[09:33] <alkisg> It went from evolution to thunderbird (4 years) and in 22.04 back to evolution
[09:33]  * alkisg uninstalls evolution and reinstalls thunderbird :)
[09:33] <lotuspsychje> wow, does evolution do irc chat too?
[09:46] <alkisg> No idea, I uninstall it before running it :D
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> been ages since i ran that too
[09:54] <Fallen> ogra: congrats, your page on the wiki is in the top 1100 most viewed pages this year, more important than debugging mysql, kernel feature freeze, and UbuntuTV!
[09:58] <lotuspsychje> woot
[10:56] <ogra> Fallen, lol
[10:57] <ogra> i shoudl probably update it 🙂
[15:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> Fallen: See DMs when you get a chance.
[17:09]  * arraybolt3[m] posted a file: (2747KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/LurVnKkwOSrmyluXREuzXNWE/logs.txt >
[17:09] <arraybolt3[m]> No, wrong channel, sorry (re: logs.txt)
[17:09] <arraybolt3[m]> (That was supposed to go in #ubuntu 🤦‍♂️)
[21:31] <teward> Fallen: ilvipero: either of you around?
[21:31] <teward> need a contact @ Canonical for something specific
[21:32] <teward> the level of criticality here i would call "medium" but still needs to be handled at Canonical's level
[21:32] <Fallen> teward: Mauro isn't going to be up yet and I'm about to head out :) Email me and I'll cc the right person?
[21:33] <teward> Fallen: stick around for 3 minutes, see incoming PM