[01:42] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[02:03]  * rs2009 waves
[02:04] <lotuspsychje> hey rs2009 
[02:05] <lotuspsychje> congrats on Ubuntu Unity Desktop amd64 [Kinetic Beta] rs2009 
[02:07] <lotuspsychje> i guess cinnamon not yet gonna make it to kinetic?
[02:09] <ItzSwirlz> lotuspsychje, shush :P
[02:09] <ItzSwirlz> i'm going to make it
[02:10] <ItzSwirlz> sorry school and ugh i have a lot to do
[02:10] <ItzSwirlz> dont rush me :v
[02:10] <lotuspsychje> cool ItzSwirlz congrats to you too then!
[02:10] <lotuspsychje> and all the other devs too ofc : )
[02:44] <ItzSwirlz> congrats?
[02:44] <ItzSwirlz> the only thing to congratulate me on is i guess i'm able to finish my work by tomorrow night to do ucr stuff
[15:33] <enigma9o7> So appearantly mesa in fedora is dropping h264/h265 decoding due to licensing concerns.  Any worry about a similar fate on the ubuntu side?   
 "So appearantly mesa in fedora is..." <- Presumably not, at least not as much, since Canonical is based in the United Kingdom, which means that United States patents don't affect it. I don't know if the UK allows software patents by law and, if it does, whether or not MPEG-LA has registered the applicable patents in the UK as well.
[16:00] <ogra> enigma9o7, worst case we'll keep it in multiverse ... 
[16:00] <ogra> (singled out into a dedicated binary package)
[16:01] <ogra> (like we did with mp3 support back in the days, to not have US users break the law when using ubuntu)
[17:18] <heinz9> if someone else does the administration stuff, how much time will which distro cost?
[17:18] <heinz9> my point is, if someone else does the admin work, than using the distribution is gonna cost you the same amount of time as with any other distribution
[17:19] <murmel> heinz9: depends on which distro, but ubuntu is definitely one of the easier ones
[17:19] <enigma9o7> Oh you mean  how much time to admin it?
[17:19] <enigma9o7> relative to other distro?
[17:19] <heinz9> my point is how much time each distri cost, and in that case I assume they cost all the same amount of time
[17:20] <heinz9> yes
[17:20] <heinz9> if you dont do the admin stuff
[17:20] <enigma9o7> I think once you know what you're doing, the only distro would take longer are build from source ones.
[17:20] <heinz9> enigma9o7, why
[17:20] <enigma9o7> well its easier to install packages that are prebuilt and ready
[17:20] <heinz9> enigma9o7, when you are not doing the admin stuff
[17:20] <heinz9> I do not install anything, because someone else is doing the admin stuff
[17:21] <heinz9> so this is not any point
[17:21] <enigma9o7> If someone else maintains the PC, OS is irrelevant.
[17:21] <heinz9> enigma9o7, exactly
[17:21] <heinz9> enigma9o7, so you are saying I am right
[17:21] <enigma9o7> That using a computer doesnt take time to maintain?
[17:21] <enigma9o7> yes, they are different, using vs maintaining
[17:21] <enigma9o7> maintain takes time
[17:21] <heinz9> enigma9o7, that every distri is gonna take the same amount of time for you
[17:22] <enigma9o7> Of course.  If someone else is maintaining the PC, then the user doesnt have to take any time to do it.
[17:22] <enigma9o7> Thats like common sense.
[17:22] <enigma9o7> If someone else cleans your bathroom, it doesnt take you any time to clean it.
[17:22] <enigma9o7> Unless you enjoy cleaning bathrooms, then you can spend as much extra time as you want.
[17:22] <heinz9> so in that case it does not matter what distribution you are gonna take
[17:22] <heinz9> right?
[17:23] <murmel> yes
[17:23] <enigma9o7> As a user?
[17:23] <heinz9> thx
[17:23] <enigma9o7> For time?  No.
[17:23] <heinz9> yes
[17:23] <heinz9> yes
[17:23] <heinz9> no?
[17:23] <enigma9o7> Certainly a user might prefer one desktop or another.
[17:23] <heinz9> why not for time?
[17:23] <enigma9o7> It might take longer to learn how to use sway than xfce.
[17:23] <enigma9o7> As a user.
[17:23] <enigma9o7> Depending on your background.
[17:23] <heinz9> I do not need to learn
[17:24] <heinz9> if I know everything
[17:24] <heinz9> its the same time, right?
[17:24] <enigma9o7> Sure.
[17:24] <heinz9> thx
[17:24] <heinz9> so it does not matter which distribution I take
[17:24] <enigma9o7> I dont think you have a real question.
[17:24] <heinz9> you answered my question
[17:24] <enigma9o7> Your question seems to be "If someone else does the maintaince, does it take any time to do maintaince?"
[17:24] <heinz9> exactly
[17:25] <heinz9> I know it sounds weiered
[17:25] <heinz9> but I need to convince somenoe
[17:25] <heinz9> because of this I need this stupid discussion
[17:25] <heinz9> understood?
[17:25] <enigma9o7> but sure, i think gentoo is harder to maintain than ubuntu (beacuse I'm not fmailiar with gentoo), but if someone else set it up for me, I'd use it just as well.
[17:25] <heinz9> exactly
[17:33] <arraybolt3[m]> Arch might take longer to maintain than Ubuntu since it likes breaking when you update, and Ubuntu generally keeps working after an update.
[17:33] <arraybolt3[m]> But if someone else does that part, then it should be invisible to the end user.
[17:34] <SandyVujakovi[m]> For what it's worth, I've had no breakages when using Arch day to day, even using the testing/unstable packages.
[17:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Sandy Vujaković: Then you are either lucky or insanely talented.
[17:36] <murmel> arch got better at handling those breakages so they happen less often. not that special anymore ;)
[17:36] <arraybolt3[m]> I never even got my Arch system to work all the way when I used it, it broke frequently, and finally one of my installs got so badly destroyed I couldn't even repair it.
[17:37] <murmel> last time I installed arch, the apt aur package was broken so I moved on
[17:38] <arraybolt3[m]> murmel: LOL
[17:38] <murmel> arraybolt3[m]: no sbuild without apt :S
[17:39] <murmel> don't know why
[17:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Apt on arch? That sounds as messy as Nix on Fedora.
[17:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, but it was for building, ok I get it.
[17:43] <murmel> arraybolt3[m]: I am not insane ;)
[17:43] <arraybolt3> Sorry, I don't know why I thought that would work. I must be tired or something (I'm usually tired almost all the time).
[17:44] <arraybolt3> And I don't know why I thought you would do that.
[17:44] <murmel> I mean, you also have dpkg installed because apt depends on it xD, just saying
[17:44] <arraybolt3> And Debian has an rpm package, too, probably for packaging.
[17:44] <murmel> sadly apt-rpm is dead xD
[17:45] <arraybolt3> I mean, "apt-cache show rpm".
[17:46] <arraybolt3> Debian has the actual package manager available, but I don't think it lets you install packages, I think it's just for building them, kinda like apt on Arch.
[17:46] <murmel> i think it's more for bootstrapping (but on the other hand nowadays you do it with dnf)
[18:00] <ogra> well, you'd neither use the rpm package n debian/ubuntu nor apt on arch to build stuff .. after all you need your build and binary dependencies working proper ... 
[18:01] <ogra> (if i need t build ubuntu packages on a foreign distro i install the lxd snap and do it in an ubuntu container)
[18:02] <murmel> ogra: how would you do that? as chroots inside would not work
[18:02] <ogra> just using dpkg-buildpackage in a clean container like i do since 20y 
[18:03] <ogra> no need for chroots (your container is one (on steroids) already)
[18:03] <murmel> ahh, i try to use sbuild which sadly, obviously, doesn't work
[18:03] <ogra> yeah, i never really got into sbuild ... newfangled stuff ... 
[18:03] <murmel> lol :)
[18:21] <sarnold> what container exactly were you using 20 years ago? solaris zones? :)
[18:31]  * arraybolt3 's ears perk up and the name of a new virtualization technology I've not looked into yet
[18:32] <sarnold> solaris zones sounded *really* slick
[18:33] <sarnold> you know how all the linux container stuff feels taped-on afterwards and kinda rough? zones apparently didn't feel like that :)
[18:35] <sarnold> joyent's smartos sounded especially great; they had it set up so you could live-boot off a USB stick to get an OS up and running; every tenant got their own zone, and they ran VMs within their own zones; *all* the disks were dedicated to VM storage in zfs pools
[18:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Ooo, fancy!
[18:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Sounds a bit like Proxmox.
[18:40] <sarnold> it probably is; here's wishing proxmox better success in the marketplace than poor old joyent :(
[18:48] <ogra> sarnold, hah ... i cheated ... i was using plain chroots indeed 🙂
[18:56] <sarnold> :D
[19:26] <tomreyn> solaris zones were great, compared to the usability of the overall OS. ;)
[19:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Are they still a thing in illumos?
[19:31] <tomreyn> doh, i never heard of that
[19:31] <tomreyn> wikipedia says so, yes
[19:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks like SmartOS is Solaris/illumos based.
[19:39] <sarnold> tomreyn: lol
[19:40] <sarnold> tomreyn: yeah, I did run solaris on my system for a few weeks back in the 90s, when they made an x86 version available for cheap; what was available was pretty thin so I spent a lot of time compiling things. it reminded me of slackware in some ways, but with a bunch of different commands..
[20:03] <tomreyn> sarnold: haha, nice. i think what mostly stuck in my head is "almost anything you need / want starts with /opt/csw/bin/" (just because the base system is really thin, too).
[20:04] <tomreyn> so opencsw was a bit like epel to rhel/centos
[20:04] <sarnold> tomreyn: hah, maybe I would have liked it more if I had found that first
[20:06] <tomreyn> or maybe i never really got to understand it, i only used it occasionally at some company where it was serving as a central syslog server for waaaay too long after EOL
[21:56] <bingoJACKPOT86> I've learned that With Linux ...If you use it as a desktop and don't simply devote it to one server role, it will bug out frequently. Because no one is getting paid to fix these things, there are often driver issues and bugs, which forces the end user to become a sort of makeshift SysAdmin. Would you guys agree with that? Ladies and blokes, I hope
[21:56] <bingoJACKPOT86> you are all having a wonderful evening - if it is late in the U.S.? Or wherever you are.
[21:56] <bingoJACKPOT86> I should not be up this early...