[02:06] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[02:10] <ravage> o/
[02:18] <lotuspsychje> heya ravage 
[09:16] <ogra> lotuspsychje, sorry, was off yesterday, i like the factoid but i'd leave the whole decision about what it points to to arraybolt3[m] ... 
[09:45] <lotuspsychje> ogra: sounds good, arraybolt3 rewrited the phased updates wiki, so i think we are good to go
[09:46] <lotuspsychje> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PhasedUpdates
[10:07] <murmel> hm, the 2 lines of "code" are wrong :/. it tells the user to have this in a file to disable phased updates, but it enables them ;) (which is said below the block)
[10:52] <arraybolt3[m]> murmel: I know it looks that way, but that's the original behavior before phasing. It used to be apt would always install updates that were phasing, regardless of how far into phasing they are. "Always include phased updates" means, if I'm understanding correctly, "Always install updates that are phasing, no matter how much phased they are", i.e.: install everything. The alternative, "Never include phased updates", does the
[10:52] <arraybolt3[m]> opposite, only installing updates that are fully phased. The "Always include" behavior was the original. It ignores phasing, which is what the user will see as "turning it off". I drew from a Stack Exchange answer from a high reputation user to make the code, since I looked at the options in apt and had a brain cramp due to the ambiguity :P
[10:55] <murmel> arraybolt3[m]: yes, but for my mind, disabling phased updates would mean to _not_ install phased updates, rather than installing them
[11:14] <murmel> arraybolt3[m]: do you perhaps mean this askubuntu? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1431741/how-to-disable-skip-phased-updates-on-22-04
[11:14] <murmel> where you got it?
[11:14] <arraybolt3[m]> murmel: Pretty sure that's it.
[11:15] <arraybolt3[m]> murmel: I see what you mean about disabling phased updates, but that would result in packages that were phasing *always* showing up in the "held back" list, if I'm not mistaken, which is the exact opposite of what a user wants.
[11:15] <murmel> because also in his post he describes disabling phased updates as Never Include
[11:16] <murmel> arraybolt3[m]: maybe word it like the discourse post where just talking about always including it or not. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/phased-updates-in-apt-in-21-04/20345
[11:16] <arraybolt3[m]> I see a difference between disabling "phased updates" (the concept) vs. disabling "phased updates" (the updates that are actually being phased). Disabling the phased updates concept requires *enabling* the installation of all the phasing updates.
[11:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Right but I found that wording to be endlessly confusing.
[11:16] <murmel> hm, maybe adding how to phase multiple machines would probably be also nice
[11:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Might be a good idea. I guess I can say "bypass update phasing", that gets the point across and isn't confusing for either party.
[11:17] <murmel> the way it's written in the discourse is definitely confusing, but that's why we can improve on that in the wiki ;)
[11:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Agreed. And stating "disabling phased updates" and then enabling the installation of all phasing updates isn't that much better.
[11:18] <arraybolt3[m]> :P
[11:18] <murmel> xD. maybe we can add that when Never Include that they still show up in the list as held packages :S
[11:19] <murmel> oh and I would definitely add a link to the people.canonical page with the phased updates
[11:19] <murmel> it's definitely an issue, as most people can't find that page
[11:20] <arraybolt3[m]> I like this idea.
[11:20] <murmel> does my ubuntu one account suffice to help you on that? or would you like to do it yourself? :)
[11:20] <arraybolt3[m]> murmel: If you have Ubuntu Wiki Editor privileges, you can do it, otherwise me or someone else with those privileges will have to.
[11:21] <arraybolt3[m]> (There's a special team you have to be a part of in order edit the Wiki.)
[11:21] <arraybolt3[m]> (Anti-spam measure.)
[11:21] <murmel> ahh, so I can't help :S
[11:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Though I've seen you around here plenty, you can apply to be on the team and I'll put in a good word for you to the right people.
[11:22] <murmel> arraybolt3[m]: where would I do that?
[11:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Follow this link and request to join the team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki-editors Then pop your head into #ubuntu-community-team and ask to be accepted.
[11:24] <arraybolt3[m]> Can you send me a link to your Launchpad ID? I see there's someone else already pending approval to the team, so I'd like for it to be easy to avoid getting the two of you mixed up.
[11:24] <murmel> arraybolt3[m]: I will do that, but probably tomorrow or so
[11:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Sounds good. I need to get my day started over here, once that's done I'll hopefully remember to add your suggestions to the page. Thanks!
[11:25] <murmel> my laptop is compiling stuff right now, so everything is slow as mollases (except terminal)
[11:44] <lotuspsychje> so, we all agree i can request that factoid now?
[12:05] <arraybolt3[m]> I agree!
[12:19] <Walex> murmel: actually interactive use should not be affected by compilation, but there are unpleasant non-linearities in the Linux kernel unfortunately.
[12:29] <lotuspsychje> !no Phasedupdates is <reply> Since Ubuntu 21.04, Apt now implements phased updates. This can hold back updates on some machines while they are being phased. Visit https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PhasedUpdates for more info.
[12:33] <lotuspsychje> !Phasedupdates is <reply> Since Ubuntu 21.04, Apt now implements phased updates. This can hold back updates on some machines while they are being phased. Visit https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PhasedUpdates for more info.
 Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
[12:34] <arraybolt3[m]> \o/
[12:34] <lotuspsychje> : )
[13:00] <ogra> yayx
[13:00] <ogra> -x
[15:40] <lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-iGPU-Avoid-Linux-5.19.12
[15:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Whew, glad that kernel's EOL!
[15:44] <arraybolt3[m]> !phasedupdates
[15:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks like it's not landed yet.
[15:45] <lotuspsychje> yeah, somebody needs to engage to add it first :p