[01:02] <lubot_> [telegram] <lynorian> the iso keeps getting bigger I am not even sure if 3GB flash drives would even exist so may put it to 4 in the manual
[02:30] <tsimonq2> Snaps are a big part of that... something perhaps to address next cycle
[02:50] <lubot_> [telegram] <Chigbddr1432> resolve some functional duplication may also helps (re @Chigbddr1432: somehow compton is still pulled in, while you guys went with picom?)
[03:40] <guiverc> our ISO contains systemsettings for KDE; maybe there are some things we could remove/tweak (easily hopefully)
[03:40] <arraybolt3> Ah, right, forgot about that.
[03:40]  * guiverc notes it's not very function given we don't have much of KDE at all
[03:58] <guiverc> s/function/functional ^
[04:53] <arraybolt3> Well, crud. I tried making a .hidden file in /usr/share/applications and putting the KDE System Settings desktop file names in there, but while that made them vanish from pcmanfm, they still showed up in the LXQt application menu.
[04:54] <guiverc> thanks for exploring/trying arraybolt3 
[04:55] <arraybolt3> Maybe there's some other way to hide stuff in the LXQt application menu. I'll keep looking.
[04:56] <guiverc> (it doesn't worry me; was useful yesterday in a support query, but if hidden & a user adds kubuntu-desktop/KDE themselves to a lubuntu install; hiding the entries may be a problem for them, or unwanted.  It's not an issue to me (I only mentioned b/c of Lyn's mention of size)
[04:57] <arraybolt3> That makes sense to me. I remember that the regression that is caused by removing it is that it breaks a button in Discover, but it sorta looks like that button doesn't work even with everything there. If so, I say we just remove it.
[04:57] <arraybolt3> Anyway, further investigation underway. It would be nice to not have a garbage button like that in such a visible spot.
[04:58] <arraybolt3> And as for size, we're at 2.7 GB right now, so I don't think we'll be able to shrink it enough to make it fit on a 2 GB drive anymore.
[04:59] <arraybolt3> (I wish we had switched to Falkon. Way too late for that now, maybe next release.)
[05:00] <arraybolt3> Any test areas that could use some help? Got plenty of spare hardware over here.
[05:01] <guiverc> we're a bit after 'full freeze' so yeah a bit late for this cycle..  You could maybe refresh your entry here https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/release-team/testing-checklist/ ; a BIOS install, but I'm waiting for RC to be reached now
[05:02]  * guiverc hoped that was going to be yesterday; RC or release candidate
[05:02] <arraybolt3> K, will put that on the todo list.
[05:02] <guiverc> the is.qa.ubun page has been updated for final; but RC not yet 'declared' from what I've seen
[05:10] <arraybolt3> guiverc: Looking at the "Configure Updates" section of KDE System Settings (which can be launched from Discover which is the only reason for including System Settings at all), it lets users set updates to happen "automatically" when the default is "manually" (yikes, we take care of updates ourselves thank you), and it allows them to enable "use offline updates", which I think I've run into on KDE neon and it was downright scary when 
[05:10] <arraybolt3> it happened and no version of Ubuntu uses it AFAIK.
[05:10] <arraybolt3> I think making that button do nothing is a *good thing*, since users could possibly cause their systems trouble or maybe cause themselves a scare by using the options there.
[05:10] <arraybolt3> (The button in question is a "Configure Updates" button in Discover, which you have to dig for in order to find.)
[05:11] <arraybolt3> Also worthy of note, Discover on Kubuntu Focus Suite doesn't have that "Configure Updates" button *at all*.
[05:12] <arraybolt3> Hey that's an idea. Where is Discover's configuration?
[05:15] <guiverc> I was out feeding birbs.. no idea about discover config; I use CLI & only touch discover to test that it works on occasion
[05:20] <arraybolt3[m]> This may be tricky for now. I think we should remove KDE System Settings and live with the fact that it leaves a broken button in Discover, since that button could cause problems for users. If we can figure out how to remove the button too, all the better.
[05:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: ^
[14:25] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3[m]: Kubuntu Focus isn't a separate distro from Kubuntu. Please stop calling it "Kubuntu Focus Suite" as if it's a ditro.
[14:25] <Eickmeyer> (stuff that really grinds my gears)
[14:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Apologies. I thought it was kinda-but-not-really an unofficial derivative. :P I'll know better for in the future.
[14:49] <arraybolt3[m]> (Regardless of what it is though, I just have to say, IT ROCKS. I am loving this thing.)
[14:49] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3[m]: It's literally just Kubuntu with hardware support. 
[14:50] <Eickmeyer> Kinda like when you buy a Dell with Windows: it has some hardware controls added-on to Windows. Same thing. It's Kubuntu with some hardware controls.
[14:50] <RikMills> Eickmeyer: to be fair, you do have some different package selection on your iso
[14:50] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Yeah, much to my chagrin and that's because Mike is highly opinionated. :P
[14:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Makes perfect sense to me.
[14:51] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: More like "additional" package selection.
[15:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Well lemme say this. Kubuntu is awesome. What you guys have added on top of it to make it work on this hardware and to make it quick and easy to use is phenomenal. This is the best laptop I've ever used, not just because the hardware is fast, but because the whole system seems to like me (with the exception of the touchpad, which can be a bit touchy at times, but I've got it mostly tamed and figured out at this point).
[15:10] <arraybolt3[m]> It kinda felt like someone read my mind and plugged 90% of everything I wanted into the system by default. I am very happy to have it, and very happy to get to help contribute to Ubuntu and KDE with it. Thank you guys!
[15:11] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3[m]: Glad to hear it. That's the goal. :)
[16:34] <tsimonq2> <Eickmeyer> "arraybolt3: Kubuntu Focus isn'..." <- To be fair, you have to do *something* on the vendor level, if you're going to hotpatch something in the future. Not a fork, simply priority level for having an SLA type thing... business stuff ;)
[16:34] <tsimonq2> Not a separate distro, but a separate use case, arguably
[16:34] <tsimonq2> <Eickmeyer> "arraybolt3: It's literally..." <- Okay, so yeah, Kubuntu but with vendor patches to make it smooth, I'm assuming eventually those go upstream :)
[16:35] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: Discover> -1 on such a change this cycle, next cycle let's bring it up again. It would be helpful if you wanted to start a list of such features in light of Phab being deprecated
[16:36] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org, Dan Simmons: No worries if you haven't had the time yet, but how do Release Notes look?
[16:36] <tsimonq2> In fact, I'll also ask teward @teward:matrix.thomas-ward.net to weigh in on those 
[16:36] <tsimonq2> https://notes.lubuntu.me/WV_ANNcCS0-9gk9kn2k-Bw
[16:40] <teward> *random incoherent screeching*
[16:40] <teward> why do i need to review the notes >.<
[16:40] <teward> *shoves SImon into the void again*
[16:45] <lubot_> [telegram] <Leokolb> Re:release notes @tsimonq2 ..i believe latest ISO now again has pre-seeded Firefox ..someone correct me if this is wrong..
=== blaze1 is now known as blaze
[16:47] <tsimonq2> <teward> "why do i need to review the..." <- because they make statements and I'm not on the LC and you're strong when it comes to what we can and can't technically say
[16:47] <tsimonq2> lubot_: Correct, that's in the release notes :)
[16:47] <teward> ah
[16:49] <teward> i'm going to make a few obvious statements
[16:49] <teward> starting with:
[16:49] <teward> there's always been ads for UA-I too
[16:49] <teward> the fact it's been rebranded 'pro' is what is irritating people
[16:49] <teward> and they're making crap for no reason
[16:52] <teward> tsimonq2: s/the book/the manual/ under the Ubuntu Manual because it's technically not a book
[16:53] <arraybolt3> @Leokolb: It was working in my testing.
[16:53] <arraybolt3> (The Firefox pre-seeding.)
[16:53] <teward> minor revisions to Support Lifespan
[16:53] <lubot_> [telegram] <Leokolb> Yes that is what I meant.. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3> (The Firefox pre-seeding.))
[16:55] <teward> tsimonq2: read my notes
[16:55] <teward> also give me coffee
[16:56]  * arraybolt3 vanishes back into -release to deal with ZFS insanity
[16:58] <arraybolt3> Hmm, doesn't look like much more is happening with ZFS now, I guess that's good for now. (Major blowup with ZFS + encryption installations on Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Budgie, ended up with broken apt and broken Firefox.)
[17:00] <arraybolt3> Shoot, ok I *am* vanishing back into ZFS, wish me luck!
[17:01]  * arraybolt3 disappears screaming into the void of filesystem insanity
[17:05] <arraybolt3> OK, that was painless enough thankfully
[17:07] <lubot_> [telegram] <Leokolb> Welcome back..my comment about Firefox ..this seems to no longer be a problem is what I should have said... (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3> OK, that was painless enough thankfully)
[17:11] <tsimonq2> <teward> "also give me coffee" <- here I have a 12 pack of K-cups, 3-5 day shipping okay? :P
[17:11] <arraybolt3[m]> I think he was hoping for 3-5 second shipping.
[17:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Is there *any* way you know of to hide the KDE System Settings thing in the LXQt menu? Setting it to not show in LXQt probably won't work thanks to https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/issues/1743, and other tricks I tried failed.
[17:28] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Issue 1743 in lxqt/lxqt "Desktop files with NotShowIn=LXQt are still displayed in the menu" [Open]
[17:35] <kc2bez[m]> <arraybolt3[m]> "Simon Quigley: Is there *any..." <- I think we can make a hacky workaround like we did with the lximage screenshot thing but since it has been there since we switched to Calamares I don't think we need to rush to get it in the release. I agree we should make this a priority for next cycle.
[17:36] <kc2bez[m]> <tsimonq2> "arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix...." <- I read through them yesterday and I thought they were good. I was planning to add a bit about the wallpaper and greeter images.
[17:38] <arraybolt3[m]> kc2bez[m]: Yeah, makes sense. I'm worried about how awfully out of place it seems, but I agree it's not that big a deal.
[17:39] <kc2bez[m]> It hasn't been much of an issue to date.
[17:39] <kc2bez[m]> I agree it is awkward though
[17:44] <kc2bez[m]> Here is the magic we did for lximage-qt https://phab.lubuntu.me/rDEFAULTSETTINGS57756891d1348cd8beb61f3f075f83396c607b90
[21:30] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Not even vendor patches. Just with hardware control tools. Like, for the M2 it has an RGB backlight on the keyboard, so I made a control for that. Stuff like that, but no real changes to Kubuntu itself.
[21:37] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: We're working upstream with KDE so we don't have to patch.
[21:42] <kc2bez[m]> Simon Quigley: I added an artwork section to the release notes. Feel free to move it around or edit things. I think it puts a happy in between two sads but understand if it doesn't flow well.
[21:48] <arraybolt3[m]> I just looked at the release notes link and it still mentions Snap preseeding for Firefox, which is no longer a problem. Am I looking at the wrong link?
[21:49] <arraybolt3[m]> * On first boot of the Lubuntu live ISO or your freshly-installed Lubuntu system, Firefox and other snaps you have elected to install need to run through a pre-seed process. This makes the application completely unavailable for the first minute (or so, depending on your machine) of startup.
[22:33] <kc2bez> Thank you kgiii for your continued contributions. Your Lubuntu membership is renewed!
[22:34] <kgiii> Thanks kc2bez. You were timely. I just got the email notification - and then I got the chat  notification! I gotta run for dinner, but I'm happy to contribute and don't see me stopping in the foreseeable future.
[22:35] <kc2bez> That is great to hear, enjoy your dinner!
[23:07]  * guiverc booting up old c2d looking for manual link etc issue on boot (snap/preseed/firefox; or item still listed on issue tracker)
[23:11] <guiverc> yeah I'll remove that from the Lubuntu tracker (thus no need to mention in release notes).  
[23:12] <guiverc> arraybolt3[m], if you believe tracking list is wrong/outdated; please let me know or correct (& let me know; I'll re-test & confirm as well)
[23:14] <guiverc> (ps:  if release notes are on notes.lubuntu.me I can't read/check them)
[23:14] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️
[23:14] <arraybolt3[m]> (Forgot I could edit that.)
[23:15] <guiverc> please let me know as well; I like to confirm - but yep please edit that, testing checklist etc, as it needs updating....  if you can't edit it (& feel you need to) yell out so I (or we) can correct your permissions so you can
[23:20] <arraybolt3[m]> I can edit it :)
[23:20] <guiverc> :)
[23:21] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: I'll throw it in a Google Doc so you can look at it. Also, Simon Quigley, I removed the bit about Snap preseeding since it no longer applies, and added a bit about hardware support since I've noticed multiple users complaining that their smartcard no longer works with the Snap Firefox. Look over my changes and make sure they're kosher, would you?
[23:21] <arraybolt3[m]> (If not I'll Ctrl+Z anything problematic into /dev/null.)
[23:21] <guiverc> thanks arraybolt3[m] ; appreciated !
[23:23] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gjTuu8pPM8l7FutwDrvZtpBlaIUL6pRgrojjaI2QPi4/edit?usp=sharing
[23:23] <arraybolt3[m]> (Any changes you want made, lmk and I'll apply them.)
[23:27] <guiverc> thank you arraybolt3[m] :)
[23:34] <guiverc> I love the discussion on using the latest (alpha) calamares .. but I'd have preferred not all of "we decided to get ahead of the curve by shipping Calamares 3.3 Alpha 2 in 22.10." being bold;  I'd just have had "Calamares 3.3" bold   (comment only)
[23:36] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: Not sure if (comment only) means "don't do this, this is just me talking" or "this is a change I would like to have made", would you like me to change the formatting there?
[23:36] <guiverc> I love the discussion on firefox as snap & why we're using it.
[23:37] <guiverc> arraybolt3[m], my reducing the bold is a suggestion; I'd make that change only if others agree (yourself, Dan and/or Simon esp. maybe).  I'd not change it on just my 'comment'
[23:38] <guiverc> These notes are really well done !
[23:38] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: Makes sense. According to the notes, Simon wrote that, so I'll wait for his input before changing anything, but I agree with the change.
[23:39] <arraybolt3> (Hmm... sometimes even when the Matrix-to-IRC bridge works, it doesn't *quite* work as expected...)
[23:40]  * guiverc has both open on this box;  delay does appears a little variable
[23:41] <arraybolt3> I was noting the inconsistent formatting used when using the Reply feature, but yeah, delay is sometimes crummy too.
[23:41] <guiverc> I'd suggest changing title of "Core Release Notes" as Ubuntu Core is a product, maybe "Ubuntu Release Notes"
[23:42] <arraybolt3> guiverc: I like it, maybe "Common release notes" since "Ubuntu release notes" is already in the text and it would sound kind of redundant IMO?
[23:42] <guiverc> Yep I like "Common" instead  
[23:43] <arraybolt3> Change applied.
[23:44] <arraybolt3> OK it's getting dark and I have some animals that need a bit of care, so I'll be afk for just a bit. (I'm nowhere even close to going to sleep, so this isn't a "goodbye", just a "one moment please".)
[23:45]  * guiverc adds not a problem..  if i hear bush-telephone ring (galahs out the window) i often disappear briefly to give 'em some seed