[01:42] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[01:49] <wez> .o/
[01:49] <wez> Afternoon lotuspsychje! How are you today?
[01:50] <lotuspsychje> all good tnx, coffee set go!
[01:51] <wez> \o/
[05:33] <Square> Can Linux kernel version change for LTS releases? 
[05:34] <Square> Like is there any chance we'll see linux 6.1 in 22.04 LTS? 
[05:34] <daftykins> before release, sure they can change their mind - but usually there's a freeze date in the planning
[05:34] <daftykins> don't forget HWEs can enable newer kernels to be backported after LTS releases
[05:34] <Square> HWE?
[05:34] <daftykins> !hwe
[05:34] <ubottu> The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[05:35] <murmel> Square: specifically 6.1 won't very likely hit 22.04, but with the next release (22.04.2) we get 5.19 and then with 22.04.3 we should get something >6.1
[05:35] <Square> cool. Getting hyped about the Rust addition here. =D
[05:35] <murmel> oO, I mean you won't even "see" any difference
[05:38] <Square> I know little about the inner workings of linux. Just think its cool Rust is being accepted as the 2nd language. Imagine great thinks could happen when we get Rust API's. 
[05:39] <murmel> Square: https://github.com/torvalds/linux it's not the second language. still can't really grasp how so many people can fanfare a language. I mean the language is quite neat, but nothing new
[05:42] <murmel> Square: ahh depending on your device, maybe using linux-oem _could_ also work. right now 6.0 is in testing phase
[05:43] <Square> murmel, I confess I can't assess the importance.  
[05:43] <Square> I read this https://www.zdnet.com/article/rust-takes-a-major-step-forward-as-linuxs-second-official-language/
[05:45] <Square> For me languages are important. I love Haskell, but understand why it can't be used as a systems language. C/C++/GO all bore me cause of their dated/limited featuresets. Rust got a bunch of features i totally like. 
[05:45] <Square> murmel, ^
[05:46] <murmel> Square: probably zdnet is not the best source for something like that, I quite like lwn, but it's paid (except you wait for a bit, till they go free)
[05:47] <murmel> Square: don't get me wrong, I understand why Rust gets its fanfare (at least on paper) but the internet is "raving" way too much (plus they need to rewrite everything in rust)
[05:48] <murmel> but at the same time I curse cargo :x
[05:49] <Square> oh, its bad? My Rust knowledge is limited. I just went through the 94 exercise "Rustlings" course. And that's probably all i know so far. =D
[05:50] <murmel> Square: try to compile a project, hf with the dependencies most projects have :(. the projects I use myself (but don't compile) have most of the time, quite the limited dependency list (most of the time somewhere around 20-30)
[05:51] <murmel> Square: there is a reason why people call it cargocult ;)
[05:51] <murmel> as those dependencies can also pull in their own dependencies
[05:52] <murmel> and some pull in a project, just because they want to use only a very small *function*
[05:54] <Square> murmel, "hf"?`
[05:58] <murmel> Square: have fun
[05:59] <Square> murmel, what happens when you do this? Slow? Memory greedy? Crash?
[06:02] <murmel> Square: it's not about that. just think about it from a security standpoint. you pull in stuff where you don't know where it's coming from (who develops it etc) and I can guarantee you the dev won't verify that the dev (of dependency) is trustworthy etc
[06:03] <murmel> Square: I can still remember somebody using a random docker container in production (business) where he had issues connecting to the server (ssh). just because noone vetted the container, where "by accident" a ssh server was running, so the dev of that software piece, could always connect to instances to see whats going on
[06:07] <murmel> just to make it clear, linux stays far away from cargo (the package manager for rust)
[06:10] <Square> ah gotcha. Yeah, that doesn't sound great I guess.
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
[15:52] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3: bug #1993278
[15:52] -ubottu:#ubuntu-discuss- Bug 1993278 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ZFS + Encryption crash after install" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1993278
[17:09] <arraybolt3[m]> lotuspsychje: Thanks!
[17:09] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3[m]: seems like ravage zfs bug on jammy, keeps on living on kinetic
[17:12] <arraybolt3[m]> What's weird is it was working painlessly enough on Xubuntu Core earlier in the cycle, so Idk what happened.
[17:14] <lotuspsychje> arraybolt3[m]: bug #1970066 was the first one
[17:14] -ubottu:#ubuntu-discuss- Bug 1970066 in snapd (Ubuntu Jammy) "(Encrypted) ZFS breaks 22.04 installation" [Critical, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1970066
[17:14] <arraybolt3> Good grief. That's a nightmare.
[17:15]  * arraybolt3 hopes they just remove ZFS installation support entirely
[17:51] <sarnold> "It seems that the apt install triggers systemd to unmount every zfs mount because systemd mistakenly thinks the rpool key is not loaded" oowwwwwwwwwwww
[17:57]  * ogra pets his ext4 disks
[18:03] <tomreyn> note when this (latter) bug report was filed, enhanced with well-reproducible steps, and what its current status, importance and assignment values are.
[18:07] <ogra> well, the snapd team is hiring i think ...
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> there are a few roles open still :p
[18:08] <ogra> should get beter soon ...
[18:08] <ogra> *better
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> whats gonna happen ogra 
[18:09] <ogra> more developers to look at bugs ...
[18:10] <lotuspsychje> oh
[18:12] <sarnold> s/look at/write more/
[21:13] <murmel> arraybolt3: I believe canonical wants to remove zfs-on-root, as they almost didn't include zsys for 22.04, and the newer installer doesn't have that option anymore
[21:25] <arraybolt3> murmel: Yeah. It seems like a good idea to me at this point.
[21:25] <arraybolt3> And people who really need ZFS-on-root can just set it up manually, right?
[21:26] <murmel> yeah, definitely.
[21:28] <murmel> arraybolt3: oh, btw, if I want to edit a wiki page, I assume the changes are instantanious?
[21:28] <murmel> so there is no approval before its being shown?
[21:28] <arraybolt3> murmel: For all the pages I've edited, correct.
[21:29] <murmel> kk
[22:50] <JanC> ogra: I'd rather have them hire people to improve APT/dpkg; most features of snap/flatpak could have been implemented as part of that...
[22:51] <sarnold> we did that to get to click packages
[22:51] <sarnold> but those weren't perfect, and mixing "frequent update" things along side "rarely update" things wasn't great
[22:52] <JanC> we already get frequent APT updates, so I don't really see the difference  :)
[22:53] <sarnold> yeah, but they don't do huge version lifts as a matter of course
[22:54] <JanC> but APT can do that
[22:54] <JanC> it's matter of namespacing & such
[23:05] <JanC> and snapd is very far from perfect too  :P
[23:07] <sarnold> amen
[23:18] <murmel> JanC: yeah, I still hope, we get a package manager to manage all (deb,flatpak,snap,maybe appimage). best case imho, implement it in apt
[23:20] <JanC> what I mean is implement the features in APT/dpkg/.deb, not add support for a zillion types of packages that are only different because people don't understand the existing package managers  :)
[23:21] <murmel> JanC: i did not dive too deep, but not sure how well that would work for all those container systems
[23:22] <JanC> well, you don't need a different container systems for every developer who thinks they invented warm water  ;)