[00:02] <guiverc> release notes are excellent.  Two suggestions I'll repeat in following lines
[00:02] <guiverc> (1) I'd have preferred not all of "we decided to get ahead of the curve by shipping Calamares 3.3 Alpha 2 in 22.10." being bold;  I'd just have had "Calamares 3.3" bold 
[00:02] <guiverc> (2) I'd suggest changing title of "Core Release Notes" as Ubuntu Core is a product, maybe "Ubuntu Release Notes"  (Aaron may have made that change to Common already)
[00:05] <teward> guiverc: you need to use a boucner :P
[00:05] <teward> i was trying to send you info earlier
[00:06] <arraybolt3> teward: guiverc has Matrix, if you send info there he'll get it.
[00:06] <teward> his matrix wasn't online earlier
[00:06] <arraybolt3> (Assuming Matrix works right, which it's not guaranteed to but whatever...)
[00:07] <teward> *shoves salt into arraybolt3's face*
[00:07]  * arraybolt3 hands teward a live jellyfish
[00:08] <guiverc> yeah sorry.   adding bouncer on server on my wishlist; but I don't see me getting to it anytime soon
[00:10]  * guiverc is logged into notes.lubuntu.me, thanks to teward :)
[00:59] <kgiii> Speaking of membership, I'm logged into chat most of the time but only reply if someone pings me. I do actually skim/read much of what's said. I've been meaning to thank arraybolt3 for jumping in and getting involved. You got up to speed quickly! Thanks!
[01:00] <arraybolt3[m]> kgiii: Wow, thanks! Congrats on your membership renewal, and thanks for the encouragement. This has been hard but extremely fun and I look forward to continuing to do this!
[01:02] <kgiii> I've been watching. I just don't type often, 'cause I don't have anything important to say. I just do my testing and fill in reports. Besides, much of what gets said goes over my head (detail-wise, conceptually I understand it just fine).
[04:24] <arraybolt3> Right, I need to refresh that installation of the Compaq. Whew, testing is fun but tricky!
[04:25] <arraybolt3> (Got a notification about the testing checklist that reminded me.)
=== guiverc2 is now known as guiverc
[19:46] <tsimonq2> Heya, looking through backlog and release notes
[19:48] <tsimonq2> <arraybolt3[m]> "guiverc: I'll throw it in a..." <- So, I'm curious about snap preseeding
[19:48] <tsimonq2> Snaps still do have to pre-seed as part of being installed in a chroot (via livecd-rootfs).
[19:48] <tsimonq2> Did they completely rewrite that part of livecd-rootfs while I wasn't looking or does it still pre-seed snaps, just not with as many issues?
[19:49] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't know for sure, I just know that Firefox no longer takes a minute or so to show up.
[19:49] <tsimonq2> <teward> "the fact it's been rebranded '..." <- I called this as soon as the messaging came out... "Ubuntu Pro" was a poor choice.
[19:49] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Do you happen to know which livecd-rootfs upload fixed this issue? Otherwise I can look.
[19:50] <tsimonq2> I don't have much time today... but I can certainly help finish things up :)
[19:50] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll find out, should be easy. It'll be in my email.
[19:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: "This bug was fixed in the package livecd-rootfs - 2.789"
[19:51]  * arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c53dfe5d30b69cb11a945ea98e71aa8945988cb0
[19:51] <arraybolt3[m]> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1991011
[19:51] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1991011 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "snaps not preseeded on Kinetic images" [Critical, Fix Released]
[19:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: ^
[19:54] <arraybolt3[m]> (old message deleted since I decided to copypaste the whole thing rather than just give one quoted line)
[19:55] <tsimonq2> muchas gracias
[19:55]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (8KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/vbHiGiHmdwfYqufCShwOwwEv/image.png >
[19:55] <tsimonq2> thanks for the link tewardbot :P
[19:55]  * tsimonq2 runs
[19:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh also I was able to use that weird "Install System" button to install Lubuntu and it worked just fine.
[20:08] <tsimonq2> <arraybolt3[m]> "https://bugs.launchpad.net/..." <- leokolb and arraybolt3 you guys are AWESOME for your help on this bug report! Thank you so much!
[20:13] <tsimonq2> > <@arraybolt3:matrix.org> ```
[20:13] <tsimonq2> > This bug was fixed in the package livecd-rootfs - 2.789
[20:13] <tsimonq2> > 
[20:13] <tsimonq2> ...(truncated)
[20:13] <tsimonq2> <guiverc> "release notes are excellent..." <- Thank you Chris, looking into it
[20:14] <tsimonq2> I think we have the items sorted, but I appreciate the compliment on the initial draft :)
[20:15] <tsimonq2> So, in terms of bolding that text, the reason I bolded the entire sentence is because it's also significant. We're shipping this in a final release probably before any other distro has. If you're skimming, I think that's a good thing to stand out. I can change the text on a majority opinion though :)
[20:16] <tsimonq2> For the headers, yes I think that has been fixed. I do wish they would fix the branding around Ubuntu Core Developer vs Ubuntu Core so I stop confusing people when I use Core and mean the former :)
[20:17] <tsimonq2> "Ubuntu Core" is marketing, the Core of Ubuntu is separate. I get it though, avoiding ambiguity is a good thing :)
[20:18] <tsimonq2> <Eickmeyer> "Simon Quigley: Not even vendor..." <- Makes sense. My point more being, while Kubuntu Focus isn't a thing in and of itself, Kubuntu Focus' Kubuntu is.
[20:24] <arraybolt3[m]> <tsimonq2> "> <@arraybolt3:matrix.org> ```..." <- Right but now that preseeding is enabled again, the "first ever boot" bit doesn't happen on the user's system, right?
[20:25] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean, it was taking a long while for Firefox to even show up in the application menu before, and now that's not a problem.
[20:25] <arraybolt3[m]> It's back to like it is on Jammy.
[20:25] <arraybolt3[m]> (Eating with one hand, typing with the other, thus slow typing.)
[20:32] <tsimonq2> Let me break this down a bit further...
[20:32] <tsimonq2> livecd-rootfs, being the tool used to create the squashfs, creates a directory, runs debootstrap, and `chroot`s in, to install packages and make changes to configuration files
[20:32] <tsimonq2> snapd is required to run snaps. Debs can be installed in place via chroot, but in order to install snaps, (as in, go through the full installation process of downloading the snap + metadata, forming a global cache, installing it into its proper place, mounting the loopback filesystem, and setting up the plugs), you need snapd to be running.
[20:32] <tsimonq2> ...(truncated)
[20:33] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah. OK, wall of text incoming, this from a practical standpoint.
[20:35]  * tsimonq2 coffee in the meantime, sec...
[20:36]  * genii sips
[20:36] <arraybolt3[m]> So on Jammy, when the user first boots the box, Firefox is just there. Whether they boot the live CD or a newly installed system, it's there. Maybe something has to happen in the background to get it there, but it works so fast that it's just there.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f44a6416c21fee200ca904e8f443674ad092a25f>)
[20:37] <arraybolt3[m]> (I don't believe all of this info is in the bug report, some of it came from talking in either -release or -flavors, can't remember which one now.)
[20:39] <arraybolt3[m]> So the bit about "takes slightly longer on first boot" is false. It was true for a bit there, but it is no longer. Or if it is still true, it's so fast that it's negligible.
[20:40]  * arraybolt3[m] thinks coffee isn't a bad idea at all, I may go get some momentarily here
[20:42] <tsimonq2> Do we have a quantitative measurement of how long it takes to boot now with snap preseeding? I'm talking, initial boot to using it right away, are we 100% sure we're to the point where the user won't notice it?
[20:42] <tsimonq2> I appreciate your thoughts on this, and I'm not disagreeing. We just need to draw a clear line of "how slow is too slow?" if we're going to be basing our decision on this off of speed.
[20:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Well it's definitely faster than two minutes. I can time trial it real quick.
[20:42]  * arraybolt3[m] spins up VM
[20:43] <tsimonq2> (I put a very deep amount of thoughts into release notes in general, simply because this is probably the only statement some people are going to see from us in 6 months. I want to make it count, and address all of the concerns that we would normally be asked about.)
[20:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (Oh c'mon Boxes, don't freeze on me now!)
[20:43] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Thank you. Approximate measures are okay, it would just be nice to have *some* quantitative value.
[20:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (Ah, I have a VBox VM in the background, that's probably part of the problem.)
[20:44] <tsimonq2> I'm going to very sparingly use our equivalent of @ room really quick...
[20:44] <tsimonq2> !standup
[20:44] <ubot93> @tsimonq2 @lynorian @HMollerCl @aptghetto @teward001 @kc2bez @The_LoudSpeaker wxl[m] guiverc @N0um3n0 @leokolb @KGIII — It's 2100 UTC Thursday which means it's time for the Lubuntu Development standup meeting. Please announce yourself for roll call! Then, in order of announcement, post your items, and be sure to mention when you're done.
[20:45] <tsimonq2> I'm going to be finalizing the 22.10 release first thing tomorrow morning, if there is ANYTHING ELSE we should release note, address, look at, whatever you can think of, please let me know.
[20:45] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: That's the last ongoing concern I can think of, what do you think?
[20:45] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, the process of preseeding is currently so fast that even racing to get to the start menu as fast as I could when it showed up, Firefox was already there and launched immediately.
[20:45] <arraybolt3[m]> (Like I had my mouse hovering over the spot where the menu was going to be before it showed up.)
[20:46] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: oh wow... so how about a fresh install boot? So, not as fast as the ISO (not loaded straight into memory), and not as fast as a followup boot, where the snap is already installed
[20:46] <arraybolt3[m]> I can't think of any other issues that really matter at this point. Will test a fresh install real quick.
[20:46] <tsimonq2> Thank you :)
[20:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (Nice thing about having a new laptop is that 'real quick" is actually really quick now)
[20:47] <tsimonq2> >:D
[20:51] <arraybolt3[m]> <arraybolt3[m]> "OK, the process of preseeding is..." <- Same results on a fresh installation on the first boot.
[20:52] <arraybolt3[m]> (I even logged in as fast as possible, which was pretty fast since my password for the VM was "z".)
[20:53] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Since you're new around these parts, the way it's gone in the past when I'm RM is...... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/bf75bb3979863874ea5505d4301881a25b092f5d>)
[20:54] <tsimonq2>  * arraybolt3: Since you're new around these parts, the way it's gone in the past when I'm RM is...
[20:54] <tsimonq2> A) Everyone take the weekend off from Lubuntu. Party. Enjoy yourselves. Celebrate the success. Pass along the bugs, I have the time set aside.
[20:54] <tsimonq2> B) About next week or so, or perhaps sooner, I'll bootstrap everything for the new release. I usually personally help out with core components (Lintian, debootstrap, etc.) and do version numbers in Cala and default settings. I documented it, but perhaps my documentation was too terse for anyone else to follow... :)
[20:54] <tsimonq2> ...(truncated)
[20:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense. Sounds like I came in at point A last time and missed it, then trickled into B and C early thereafter.
[20:55] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Wow, okay. I'm glad we looked into it, but I think we're okay proceeding as-is. Thanks :)
[20:56] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: It always is unfortunate when I see someone join like halfway through the cycle... "it's great that you're here and contributing, but you missed the best part of the cycle, the 'throw it at the wall and see if it fits' phase" :P
[20:56] <tsimonq2> s/fits/sticks/
[20:56] <arraybolt3[m]> As for the bulk SRUs, the only one that might happen that I can think of is a weird thing with software-properties-{kde,qt} that was found in Ubuntu Studio last night, but the Release Team seems to have that under control already. We may want to do something about KDE System Settings, but other than that I think we're good.
[20:57] <arraybolt3[m]> As for Debian... *dusts off battle suit* <-- I'll need your help with Andrew, since when I tried to do the MR solo, it went... poorly.
[20:58] <tsimonq2> (And if anyone else sees something Aaron and I missed, please raise it. :) )
[20:58] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: No worries, I gotchu
[20:58] <tsimonq2> We'll get it sorted.
[20:58] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean I ended up with LXQt developer privileges but I didn't manage to even get libfm-qt merged in. I'm still not experienced enough with Git to really fix everything yet (need to sit down and learn that), and Andrew is not all that easy to work with.
[20:58] <arraybolt3[m]> (Er, push access to the Debian repos... you know what I'm trying to say.)
[20:58] <tsimonq2> Let's just make sure we're keeping an eye out for people syncing over Lubuntu deltas... so they know to talk to us first, and that it's an ongoing conversation.
[20:59] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Early 23.04 would be the times we'd probably sit down and sync to get this stuff done
[20:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense. Probably also we'll want to tackle Calamares again in there.
[20:59] <tsimonq2> Definitely.
[21:00] <arraybolt3[m]> I learned quite a bit about C++ over the end of the cycle also as a result of being plunged headlong into KDE development, so I may be able to help with the installer prompt.
[21:00] <tsimonq2> Well, looks like we have our work cut out for us next cycle, for this cycle we have another 24 hours where I would expect everyone to be doing constant testing ;) ;) (only kidding if you are!)
[21:00] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Remind me once 22.10 is all said and done, in the meantime it's testing time ;) ;)
[21:00] <tsimonq2> test test everyone test
[21:00] <arraybolt3[m]> :) Pretty sure Chris and Leo already obliterated that problem seven ways from Sunday with a mech and a bulldozer.
[21:01] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean I don't get how they do as much testing as they do, but wow.
[21:01] <arraybolt3[m]> (I kinda got tied up taking Ubuntu Studio testing over, so I may be slow doing my own testing, but I'll try to get in there.)
[21:01] <tsimonq2> I mean, they have really gotten their stuff together, I don't disagree with you a bit (knocking it out of the park!). The more testing the better, though :)
[21:02] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: No worries.
[21:02] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Don't worry... I once held #1 for an entire cycle in the entire Ubuntu project on the ISO QA test ratings... it's a different yet productive mindset :)
[21:02] <tsimonq2> (Ah, me when I was 14. I miss the energy.)
[21:03] <arraybolt3[m]> It's hard! Trying to multitask different computers and everything is tricky.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> Oh, for sure!
[21:03] <arraybolt3[m]> I had enough problems with testing on two computers last night... and I'm used to multitasking.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> Well, when I joined, I was told I had to do QA before I could learn development, but I see Chris introduced you to the project, and he does the QA stuff, so shrug I'm not worried :)
[21:03] <tsimonq2> (Alongside others, mainly Chris and Leo though)
[21:04] <tsimonq2> Anyway... I need to put in at least a few $dayjob hours today, but if you need anything, please ping. Thanks for all your help :)
[21:04] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️ Thank you guys!
[21:04]  * arraybolt3[m] starts another QA test on Studio and then goes to light the hot water heater
[21:13] <kc2bez[m]> OK, caught up with the backlog. I will try to keep an eye in the usual places tomorrow as much as I can with $day job duties too. Let me know if there is something you need help with.
[21:26] <kc2bez[m]> Simon Quigley: I don't think I've mentioned it, or at least mentioned it enough, it is great to have you back as RM. 
[21:35] <tsimonq2> <kc2bez[m]> "Simon Quigley: I don't think I'..." <- Thanks, glad to be back :)
[23:52] <tsimonq2> My brother mentioned a pretty good point after reading the release notes...
[23:52] <tsimonq2> It should be noted that such issues with smartcards and Firefox are due to confinement. If someone has the chance, it would be worth asking if you can enable a snap plug/slot or if it straight up doesn't work. Whoever wrote it, I would like some insight on what the issues are that you experienced. If we're going to mention that specifically, we should be honest about what the problem is