[02:14] <arraybolt3> Alright, the testing has begun. I only really have two machines over here that are up to the task (maybe three but why have two virtual machine testers?), so this isn't exactly the world's most comprehensive test suite, but it should at least help.
[02:21] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: Kinda bad news, spice-vdagent isn't working in Ubuntu Studio under GNOME Boxes, causing automatic screen resizing and file drag-n-drop to not work.
[02:21] <arraybolt3> (By "isn't working", I mean, the service seems to be stopping itself automatically for no apparent reason that I can see, and starting it has no effect on the VM's behavior.)
[02:22] <arraybolt3> Probably very low-priority and ignorable, but this didn't happen in Jammy, and it doesn't happen in Lubuntu Kinetic.
[02:23] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I had no issue using VirtualBox (I know, ew) earlier, so you might not be able to use GNOME Boxes. So, ignorable because there's literally nothing we can do about that.
[02:23] <Eickmeyer[m]> We also have a policy: Ubuntu Studio isn't supported in virtual machines.
[02:24] <arraybolt3> Ah, then no problem.
[02:24] <arraybolt3> (I think this may affect Kubuntu also though, which may be a problem for them... *sigh*, I noticed this several days ago and then just forgot about it in the whirlwind of everything else.)
[02:30] <arraybolt3> OK, this one's actually bad. The proprietary driver installer is borked. On my laptop with Broadcom WiFi, if I choose the proprietary driver in the list, the "Apply Changes" button remains grayed out. Launching software-properties-kde in a terminal and then reproducing the issue results in the following error message (pastebin incoming):
[02:31] <arraybolt3> https://termbin.com/4h24
[02:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: ubuntu-bug software-properties
[02:31] <arraybolt3> Yep, on it.
[02:32] <arraybolt3> Grr... now GNOME Boxes decided to change my UEFI VM to BIOS for no apparent reason *after* the install was done.
[02:40] <arraybolt3> Bug #1993370
[02:40] -ubottu:#ubuntustudio-devel- Bug 1993370 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Cannot install proprietary Broadcom WiFi drivers on Ubuntu Studio Kinetic" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1993370
[02:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: Sadly, I doubt we're going to see any fixes on that bug. Foundations has taken a hardline against fixing any of the Qt/KDE interface bugs.
[02:41] <arraybolt3> ...?!? Why? (Also, sad, guess we can release-note how to install the drivers from the terminal?)
[02:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> I don't know, but it's some very anti-community policy they've taken lately.
[02:42] <arraybolt3> (I mean four out of the seven Ubuntu flavors use Qt as the base - Kubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Lubuntu, and Ubuntu Kylin.)
[02:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> Kylin's interface is a MATE fork (GTK)
[02:42] <arraybolt3> I thought for sure they said they built it on Qt...
[02:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> AFAIK, nope.
[02:43]  * arraybolt3 goes digging
[02:44] <arraybolt3> Great, looks like Kylin decided that English didn't really matter all that much anyway >.<
[02:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, there has been a lot of radio silence from the Kylin team too.
[02:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> And don't forget, there are 8 flavors now. Unity.
[02:45] <arraybolt3> Right, forgot about them.
[02:45] <arraybolt3> Wikipedia says they use both... and I guess now I know why their ISO is bigger even than Studio's.
[02:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yikes.
[02:46] <arraybolt3> *Sigh.* OK, whatever. Release note it is, we can SRU a fix in later perhaps.
[02:46] <arraybolt3> (Actually that's your call, I don't know why I said it that way, sorry)
[02:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> We can't touch software-properties. It's in main, that requires a core-dev.
[02:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm sure Kubuntu will have the same issue.
[02:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Well then we can yell at Simon to kick it into gear maybe? I mean, surely they have to allow fixes at some point, right?
[02:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, he can do it, but getting a pull request in to fix it, since it's the Qt/KDE interface, is like pulling teeth. They don't care. Had the same problem with Ubiquity when I did the same thing. Had to practically kick and scream to get something fixed in the OEM config.
[02:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Even though I did the PR.
[02:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, because we have to fix it upstream too, right?
[02:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, "upstream" is somewhere in Launchpad, because it's a native Ubuntu package.
[02:49]  * arraybolt3[m] throws everything I thought I knew about how this part of the process works out the window
[02:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://launchpad.net/software-properties
[02:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> We might be able to tell sil2100 about this when he awakes, and he might make it a priority since that does indeed affect anyone with Broadcom on Lubuntu, Kubuntu, and Studio.
[02:53] <arraybolt3[m]> *almost an entire release cycle
[02:53] <arraybolt3[m]> I get why these processes exist, but this is crazy how many different procedures and systems there are all over the place. I mean I've been here an entire release cycle and am only just now learning that modifying main packages is trickier than modifying universe packages.
[02:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Modifying a main package is only trickier if it's a native package.
[02:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Otherwise, just grab a core dev.
[02:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Ugh. And I still have no clue how to use Launchpad Git other than I managed to clone distrho-ports out of it once. (Speaking of which, I should start working on that copyright file again once all of this mess calms down.)
[02:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git
[02:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> Set it up that way, and you'll be soooo glad you did.
[02:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> Then it's just a matter of git clone lp:software-properties
[02:57] <arraybolt3[m]> 'Kay. uncramps brain
[04:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Minor regression, Ctrl+Alt+T no longer pulls up a Konsole window. Going into the Shortcuts options, and adding Konsole to the list of apps, seems to fix it, and the fix persists across reboots.
[04:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Will file a bug shortly.
[04:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Bug #1993464 <-- ctrl+alt+t failure
[04:17] -ubottu:#ubuntustudio-devel- Bug 1993464 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Ctrl+Alt+T no longer pulls up a Konsole window in Ubuntu Studio Kinetic" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1993464
[05:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: That would technically be ubuntustudio-default-settings, but there's another problem: it's not that simple. Global shortcuts in KDE are messed-up ala the kdeglobals bug. Basically, the ctrl-alt-T was removed upstream and there's no way to put it back. Essentially, that's a "Can't Fix/Won't Fix" bug.
[05:26] <Eickmeyer[m]> But I have to go to bed now.
[05:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Ugh. And that bug is a whole entire bag of worms.
[05:37] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, ttyl! Thanks for everything!
[06:26] <RikMills> arraybolt3[m]: the shortcut exists in 'examples', but is disabled by default
[06:26] <RikMills> https://i.imgur.com/zjnanM4.png
[14:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: WRT bug 1993370, apparently it was fixed in the GTK frontend but was missed in the Qt frontend, and it's the same function, so they're fixing it.
[14:41] -ubottu:#ubuntustudio-devel- Bug 1993370 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Cannot install proprietary Broadcom WiFi drivers on Ubuntu Studio Kinetic" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1993370
[14:51] <Eickmeyer> Bridge is acting weird this morning. Ugh...
[14:51] <Eickmeyer> ubottu got ignored.
[15:59] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: WRT PW, PW settings (config) can be set in /usr/share/pipewire/ (I think the PW package over writes this) in /etc/pipewire/ or in ~/.config/pipewire/. Where should studio-controls write settings to?
[16:00] <OvenWerks> I would think ~/.config would make the most sense except if removing controls
[16:01]  * Eickmeyer[m] thinking....
[16:01] <OvenWerks> When removing a package those files would not be removed
[16:01] <OvenWerks> (same problem as cadence)
[16:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> I guess it depends on what kind of settings we're writing.
[16:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> If they're benign, aka not disabling PW altogether, then ~/.config makes sense.
[16:02] <OvenWerks> There are some settings that can be done on the fly which would be best to do there.
[16:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> But the other one is system-wide.
[16:02] <OvenWerks> yes
[16:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> Which affects everyone
[16:03] <OvenWerks> We have always assumed that for work station we are dealing with a one user machine
[16:04] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I could add a button: reset to system default
[16:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> If removing -controls, the d/postrm script could, theoretically, go through /home/*/.config and undo configs, but that's intrusive and messy.
[16:04] <Eickmeyer> Bridge is being dumb.
[16:04] <Eickmeyer> I missed most everything you were saying.
[16:04] <OvenWerks> this could remove all ~/.config for the one user
[16:05] <Eickmeyer> That might be a solution. 
[16:06] <OvenWerks> It is not quite as bad as cadence as all files would be in one place.
[16:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> True.
[16:10] <OvenWerks> The main things that need setting in a file would be device names I think. The PW long and short names that it creates by default are not very nice.
[16:10] <Eickmeyer> I imagine they read like MD5sums.
[16:11] <OvenWerks> They all use spaces which is a pain for cli commands which is so far a lot of how controls works.
[16:12] <Eickmeyer> Ooof, gotta escape it.
[16:12] <OvenWerks> However, midi port names have always had this problem anyway.
[16:14] <OvenWerks> PW has, since I last looked, added a command to set a default device to show up as system:* so that is nice.
[16:15] <Eickmeyer> Oh, that's excellent.
[16:19] <OvenWerks> The biggest annoyance for me has been the extremely messy jack graph PW creates. It would be nice to be able to hide devices or other ports we don't want to see
[16:20] <Eickmeyer> FYI, for LL I have Patchance ready for upload, we can replace Carla's button with Patchance as it's an excellent stand-alone patchbay.
[16:20] <OvenWerks> for example, make some nice virtual devices (with nice names as this may be the only way to customise device names) and hide the origianl device
[16:23] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: that would work for ubuntu for sure not sure outside. but we have them ask the user to install if not present. On start up instead of just looking for one application for the button we could: look for them in a certain order Patchance, catia or Carla and name the button with which ever comes up first.
[16:24] <Eickmeyer> Sure, that could work.
[16:24] <OvenWerks> (or make a drop down with all found)
[16:26] <OvenWerks> catia still has no release outside of cadence which has been released in 2022
[16:28] <OvenWerks> anyway, if Patchance gets into backports, I will add it. Carla is way too heavy for our use.
[16:28] <Eickmeyer> Right.
[16:29] <Eickmeyer> I'll get it into backports. That won't be a problem.
[16:29] <OvenWerks> well, at least in controls, it is still useful to include
[16:30]  * OvenWerks is going to vanish for a minute
[16:32] <Eickmeyer> wb
[16:33] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: back, so let me know when patchance is available
[16:34] <OvenWerks> (server hadn't been restarted in a while and may have been running on libs/kernel that have been removed :)
[16:34] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Will do. I need LL to open first, but Kinetic's release is tomorrow, so it'll be a week or two. And then I'll be in Prague with everyone else 4th - 10th, so probably not much movement then.
[16:34] <OvenWerks> right
[16:35] <OvenWerks> they offered me the trip to Prague as well
[16:35] <OvenWerks> I had to turn it down, too much happening here
[16:36] <Eickmeyer> I figured that's what happened. I'll be telling a bit of your story of involvement as part of my talk.
[16:37] <Eickmeyer> It was my suggestion to offer it to you. You were my #1 pick. :)
[16:48] <OvenWerks> I might not have much nice things to say :P
[16:49] <OvenWerks> I feel much of the reason for choosing Linux has been lost to gnome-itis, and lib changes with no backwards compatability
[16:51] <OvenWerks> gnomes messing with the window title bar is one of the worst things I have seen in software. Gnome's (and others) missuse of systemd has not helped either.
[16:56] <Eickmeyer> I see. Well, that's all valuable, and worthy of discussion. Believe me, the Ubuntu Desktop team understands a lot of this, which is why they don't stick with the Gnome defaults and add the dock, system tray, maximize/minimize buttons, etc. But yeah, I get it.
[16:57] <Eickmeyer> But anyhow, Mark wants to re-focus on community, which is why it's no longer the Ubuntu *Developer* Summit.
[16:59] <Eickmeyer> And I, and others, want to see the flavors working not as individual distributions, but as teams within the larger community.
[17:01] <OvenWerks> I do understand that much of where the linux world is going is based on commercial interests, redhat in particular. And all that trickles to the rest of the linux world. I do know that the new X replacement is going to happen. X is not being developed any more though I wonder if that is because of its replacement. I like being able to SSH -X and run single windows.
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> That's not going away. You can still run an X server within Wayland.
[17:04] <OvenWerks> And of course as a developer, I would like to send time improving my sw rather than catching it up to libs that have changed elsewhere :)
[17:06] <Eickmeyer> I hear that. Being proactive rather than reactive is nice. And yes, it is hard to catch deprecation warnings in compilers and term outputs, which I understand is supposed to be the way to do things, but there's no guarantee the supposed correct way to do it won't change last minute.
[17:07] <OvenWerks> I like the way c++ works. There is a compiler switch that allows c++99 still
[17:08] <Eickmeyer> In my work with Kubuntu Focus, we actually made a GCC compiler changer utility that changes the default C compiler version depending on what one's needs are.
[17:54] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: Should I be expecting a new Studio ISO today with the bug fix for the driver installer?
[17:55] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: It'd also have to respin Kubuntu and Lubuntu as well since it's seeded there as well.
[17:56] <Eickmeyer> Those are undoubtedly affected.