[03:29] <guiverc> i wonder if the kinetic xscreensaver issue relates to ~/.xscreensaver ; i keep being able to get it to appear/start correctly; then when i explore - it returns to crashing...   I can't work out what I'm missing (why I can get it working, then why it sometimes returns to failing..)
[03:31]  * guiverc going out in the garden... 
 exactly me experience.. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <guiverc> i wonder if the kinetic xscreensaver issue relates to ~/.xscreensaver ; i keep being able to get it to appear/start correctly; then when i explore - it returns to crashing...   I can't work out what I'm missing (why I can get it working, then why it sometimes returns to failing..))
 tsimonq2: arraybolt3: the chaos is upon you both.  you are both being enlisted by me for git duty
 one or both of you needs to audit the repos on phab and then determine which ones have moved to git.lubuntu.me and then we need to migrate the ones that haven't been moved yet
 we'll handle CI setup after we migrate the repos
 i really want to start getting to the point we start shutting phab for things
 Count me in for some of the fun too. I wonder if we should schedule some sprint sessions?
[17:54] <tsimonq2> I don't think teward's message got to IRC, but I agree. I was going to start such a document in notes.l.m today, if anyone else gets to it first please throw me a link
[17:54] <tsimonq2> (I would suggest, if you're taking on such a task of generating a list, that you use APIs instead of manually scraping page-by-page. Even if you don't know how to write code or use the API, it's still quicker.)
[17:55] <arraybolt3> Just looking at stuff, hold on...
[17:56] <arraybolt3> @teward001: OK, sounds fun.
[17:56] <tsimonq2> (Python interpreter is the best for this, I've even witnessed Colin using it to figure things out.)
[17:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Never used a web API before, but programming I can do, so should be easy enough in theory.
[17:57] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also thanks for alerting me that there were messages from teward, I wasn't sure what I was looking at when I opened Element, but thankfully I had Konversation on all night.
[18:00] <tsimonq2> tl;dr the steps should look something like this...... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e88600dabd5d1e5a3ed418242db6a21de31f0d3c>)
[18:00] <arraybolt3[m]> One thing that comes to mind is that there's info in Phabricator that doesn't appear to be in repos at all (the wiki where we keep our testing checklist and stuff like that). I wonder how we're going to migrate those over.
[18:01] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: There's a couple of things involved in this...
[18:01] <tsimonq2> A) What's our new wiki/task solution?
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Ah, because you use fancy libraries to do that stuff. I was going to try to use C# to fight with HTTP nonsense and JSON and the like, your way looks easier.
[18:01] <tsimonq2> tsimonq2: B) Do those have APIs?
[18:01] <tsimonq2> C) How easy is an automated migration?
[18:01] <tsimonq2> As in, what do the APIs support exactly?
[18:01] <tsimonq2> I did all of the Phab importing by hand. I don't wish that process on anyone else
[18:02] <tsimonq2> Ideally we'd write a script to do this for us once, GPL (of some kind) it, and publish it under a scripts repo or something
[18:02] <tsimonq2> We also have rNEWREL in Phab with a script of mine already doing some automated management of repos
[18:03] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: There should be a library already built. If there isn't a functional one already built in your language of choice (Python isn't mandatory but build instructions are), talk to me, we'll figure it out
[18:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Part of me's sorely tempted to try to do it in Bash :P OK, so most of the languages I know are somewhat Microsoft-based, and I'm not sure if you want to install a whole dotNET stack on your machine or not (you probably have enough stacks installed already). Would it be better if I learned Python, or is attacking it in the language I know best acceptable?
[18:06] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also I'm sure there's a C# library to do at least the GitHub parts of this, C# is quite prevalent in the dev world IIUC.)
[18:06] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I would say Python is a happy medium for scripts in the project. It's installed by default on Lubuntu, it's basically pseudocode when you're reading it compared to other languages, and although there is an interpreter overhead cost, afair Ubuntu's python3 is optimized and it won't matter for scripts such as these that we aren't shipping to the end user
[18:07] <arraybolt3[m]> LOL you're not going to believe this, Gitea actually shows how to interact with their API with shell scripting... maybe Bash isn't a bad choice after all then.
[18:07] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Whatever works - also remember you can run bash commands with python3 using `subprocess.pipe`
[18:08] <tsimonq2> Again, not particular on how it's done if you're the one writing it, but build instructions so others can reproduce it natively on a Lubuntu machine, that I'm particular on :)
[18:09] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Yeah, that makes sense. And I don't want people to have to install dotNET 6 and then go through the sometimes messy, *length* compile process that makes a rather complicated mess in the build folder. And I've learned other languages without too much trouble before.
[18:09] <arraybolt3[m]> s/*length*/_lengthy_/
[18:09] <tsimonq2> Python is in the top 5 for easiest :)
[18:09] <arraybolt3[m]> (I mean like compiling a one-liner should not take five to ten seconds, MS, it really shouldn't.)
[18:10] <tsimonq2> (Alongside Khan Academy's psudocode I learned in 5th grade and MIT Scratch I learned in 8th grade :P)
[18:10] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I agree, hah
[18:10] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Scratch is not a language. Scratch is an animation engine with some code-looking glue. The two are different. :P
[18:11] <arraybolt3[m]> (not actually true but that's my opinion on its usefulness)
[18:11] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: It is a GUI-based programming language, by definition. Welcome to the low-barred future :P
[18:12] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, guess that's what I'll be trying to do today then. I also have a Manuskript SRU and an attempt at repairing Frescobaldi to tackle, I'll probably try to learn enough Python to get by once I'm done with Manuskript.
[18:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Unrelated, but while you're right here, if I'm dealing with an application that is very broken or even entirely broken and am making an SRU to fix it, is it acceptable to just do a full-on version upgrade if the feature changes are very minimal and the vast majority of changes are bug fixes? I believe I've seen this done with other packages, and it seems like a sane way of doing things here, but part of me thinks
[18:22] <arraybolt3[m]> that might not be allowed.
[18:22] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Short answer: yes
[18:22] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'm dealing with two extremely broken packages, the ones I mentioned earlier, both could be fixed lickety-split with a total version upgrade, and almost everything is bug fixes in both packages, so this would be an easy way to do things.)
[18:22] <tsimonq2> "it is also acceptable to upload new microreleases with many bug fixes without individual Launchpad bugs for each of them (~ubuntu-sru will make the final decision). The upstream QA process must be documented/demonstrated and linked from the SRU tracking bug. In other cases where such upstream automatic testing is not available, exceptions must still be approved by at least one member of the Ubuntu Technical Board. "
[18:23] <tsimonq2> tl;dr from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates is "as long as we can trust upstream, we're cool"
[18:23] <arraybolt3[m]> That's sort of what I figured from the docs, but one of the people on Launchpad didn't seem so on-board with the idea (some guy I've never seen or heard of before), so I wasn't sure.
[18:23] <tsimonq2> Do you have a link to the logs so I can read up on context? (Perhaps from irclogs.ubuntu.com )
[18:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: It's a Launchpad question but yeah.
[18:24] <arraybolt3[m]> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/frescobaldi/+question/703513
[18:25] <arraybolt3[m]> The person who seems against a version upgrade is Bernard Stafford, I dunno who that is. He specifically states "Ubuntu is derived from Debian. Package will not upgrade until Kinetic.
[18:25] <arraybolt3[m]> FAQ #3037: “no rolling release”." This is despite the fact that the package in question (Frescobaldi) is entirely broken in Jammy. I don't know if he agreed with the fact that there were exceptions to the "no version upgrades" rule or not.
[18:26] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: https://launchpad.net/~bernard010/+participation - ~not-canonical + not a member of ~ubuntu-dev
[18:27] <tsimonq2> He's looking at it by surface-level policy
[18:27] <tsimonq2> As a member of ~ubuntu-dev, I would sponsor this
[18:27] <arraybolt3[m]> OK good. I saw Ubuntu Community Team in the groups he was in and thought maybe he had a special say in this.
[18:27] <tsimonq2> (Tentatively, only given the information I have thus far)
[18:27] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Nah, no "my position trumps your opinion" here :)
[18:27] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Well yeah obviously, you'd want to look it over first, but that's implied.
[18:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright well that takes that job from a long Python code repair session to a short "bump version, make sure it builds, make sure it works, then throw it at Simon and see what happens".
[18:34] <arraybolt3> (Or throw it at whoever else needs to review it.)
[18:34] <tsimonq2> (Sorry, my weekly standup for $dayjob just started)
[18:35] <arraybolt3[m]> np, I need to get my day started first anyway
[18:41] <teward> tsimonq2: one thing at a tine for moving everything.  first is git
[18:42] <tsimonq2> We need a list of what needs to be moved before we can start moving it
[18:42] <teward> yep which you and arraybolt can figure out :)
[18:42] <teward> i'll help a little but err:tired
[18:42] <teward> and also err:meetings_with_ceo_big_bossman_today
[18:43]  * arraybolt3[m] puts teward in a debugger and adds a coffee opcode to brain.clockTick()
[18:45]  * genii 's ears go up for a moment, then he wanders back to the coffeepot in another channel
[18:46] <arraybolt3[m]> teward: May things go well on that front!
[18:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: I think having write access to the repos on git.lubuntu.me may end up coming in handy right about now, I don't know if I'll need it for sure but I can see it coming in handy. Is there any blockers for that happening?
[18:48] <arraybolt3[m]> s/is/are/
[18:49]  * arraybolt3[m] goes afk, will check up on messages when I get back
 "Dan Simmons: I think having..." <- I think it was more of a social disagreement since you weren't a Lubuntu Member at the time
[20:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: I made an email request just after becoming a Lubuntu Member at your and Eickmeyer's recommendation, and didn't get any reply. I thought maybe there was something that I still needed to do or something blocking, but at any rate I currently still don't have access.
[20:54] <arraybolt3[m]> At any rate, however it works, we'll figure it out. If nothing else I can throw my code at you and you can tell me where I botched it.
[20:55] <tsimonq2> For the sake of complete transparency, I remember the reasoning being something along the lines of "he's too green" - nothing you're doing wrong, at all
[20:55] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Perfect timing, throw it at me :)
[20:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Well that I can agree with :P My Git-fu is still about as good as a hungry 6-month-old panda.
[20:56] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Uh... I just finished with getting my day started and am still working on Manuskript at this point...
[20:56] <arraybolt3[m]> I meant once I have the code written.
[20:56] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Don't worry, been on the other side of that already today ;)
[20:56] <tsimonq2> No worries, take your time
[20:57] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Still a lot better than I've seen with most people :)
[20:57] <tsimonq2> (At least, this early into jumping head-first)
[20:57] <tsimonq2> Anyway, however you want to give it to me, if you want practice with Git or ... however :) just let me know once you're confident with something
[20:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Sounds good.
[21:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, a question for you while you're right here. How do I add a certain release of Ubuntu as affected by a bug? Right now the Manuskript bug is just marked as affecting Ubuntu, I want to mark it as affecting Kinetic and Jammy so that I can make SRUs for Kinetic and Jammy and have them turn into "Fix Committed/Fix Released" when the fixes are published or being published.
[21:01] <tsimonq2> You have to be a member of Bug Control, the requirements of which ... well, it's been like 5 years, I won't lie :)
[21:01] <tsimonq2> Let me see how I actually have that permissionset...
[21:02] <arraybolt3[m]> If you can just tag this bug as affecting Jammy and Kinetic, that would be great. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/manuskript/+bug/1989203
[21:02] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1989203 in manuskript (Ubuntu) "Manuskript crashes on start" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[21:02] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: You got it. Then I can look into how to get you your own shiny set of buttons :)
[21:02] <arraybolt3[m]> I found the Wiki page on it.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> Critical / High / Medium / Low ?
[21:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Critical or High, the app won't even start on Jammy or Kinetic.
[21:04] <arraybolt3[m]> I'd say High since it's only this app that has a problem.
[21:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Critical is, I think, for something that mangles all of Ubuntu.
[21:04] <tsimonq2> Again, like 5 years since I've read these docs... but I think this justifies Critical...
[21:05] <tsimonq2> That's just what my gut tells me ;)
[21:05] <arraybolt3[m]> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance?
[21:05]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (22KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/linuxdelta.com/HPxZQQjiOcucyZJOofaHIkJs/image.png >
[21:05] <tsimonq2> Oh, so you are right on this one
[21:06] <tsimonq2> I wish they would make those descriptions clearer :/
[21:08] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Something that I'll point out for your reference, since we're in a weird spot (for the next few days) where Ubuntu devel isn't really a thing, make sure to note it should already be fixed in Debian and will land in the development release via autosync once the archive opens
[21:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh OK.
[21:09] <tsimonq2> The SRU Team always wants to make sure it's fixed in the development release before the stable release. I'd cover yourself by being up front about that
[21:09] <arraybolt3[m]> (And yes I did verify it was indeed fixed in Debian, I should note that in the Debian report too.)
[21:09] <tsimonq2> Perfect. :)
[21:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks for your help!
 "Thanks for your help!" <- Of course :)
[22:02] <kc2bez[m]> OK, I think I am caught up. I can make some adjustments to git ACLs. I think I have most of the repos all set up, at least enough to get the party started. Right now they are mirrored from github. We need to flip that so github becomes the mirror from git.l.m
[22:03] <arraybolt3> I'm still in SRU mode over here, so no hurry.
[22:03] <kc2bez[m]> Sure thing. I am not at the keys yet, just on my phone.
[22:17] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3: I think that might be what you need.
[22:17] <arraybolt3[m]> That? Sorry, something may have gotten lost.
[22:18] <kc2bez[m]> As far as git permissions
[22:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh OK. Thank you!
[23:29] <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons: Do I have the ability to grant such permissions?
[23:30] <kc2bez[m]> I am not sure. Maybe?
[23:31] <tsimonq2> That's why I'm so confused. He already has access.
[23:32] <kc2bez[m]> I just added him a little bit ago 
[23:32] <tsimonq2> Ah sweet, thanks :)
[23:32] <kc2bez[m]> Of course.
[23:35] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: I haven't looked into what exactly manuskript does, but I would be interested to hear the upgrade story: how does this affect existing installations, and are there any reverse-dependencies?
[23:51]  * arraybolt3[m] looks for somewhere to put my PB&J so I can type
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Manuskript has no reverse-depends. It's basically a novel-writing tool. In its current state, it always crashes if you try to launch it, upgrading to the newer release makes it work properly (at least in my testing - it starts, can create a new project, can save, and can open stuff). For people who have Manuskript installed currently, they aren't able to use it. When this upgrade is installed, Manuskript will start
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> working again.
[23:54] <tsimonq2> lubuntu-qa cc guiverc leokolb: bug 1992507 is ready for verification at your earliest convenience ;)
[23:54] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 1992507 in calamares (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Calamares 3.2.61" [Medium, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1992507
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Someone in the #ubuntu:matrix.org channel noticed the problem first and helped me reproduce it, like, a month ago or so, so he's really going to be glad when this lands.
[23:55] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Got it, remember to tell the SRU team that :)
[23:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, like in the bug description?
[23:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Or where do I put that info?
[23:55] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also should I subscribe anyone else to that report?)