[00:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I had kinda counted on you to do that since 1) You're part of the Ubuntu Studio team for that reason, and 2) Ubuntu Studio and Lubuntu agreed to share testing resources with regards to Calamares, and iirc, you were in on that conversation.
[00:51] <arraybolt3> I actually do not remember that conversation *at all*...
[00:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> It was an agreement that Dan, you, Simon, Leo, and I were having at the time in #lubuntu-devel:libera.chat 
[00:52] <arraybolt3> Actually, I now vaguely remember it. I'm kind of scattered all over the place with multitasking, sorry about that. I'm doing the testing right now.
[00:52] <arraybolt3> Oh, I remember the one about us sharing resources. I meant I didn't remember there even was a calamares SRU until today.
[00:53] <arraybolt3> But no worries. I have the VM booted and am getting Calamares installed.
[00:53] <arraybolt3> uh... did... I... just... use the official release and not the daily... :facepalm:
[00:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> I thought you were grumbling about Ubuntu Studio not doing testing. I can't be the only one doing testing, especially when I'm in Prague for a week and helping my parents move on the weekends.
[00:54] <arraybolt3> No, not even a bit. I was grumbling because I switched computers and didn't have the ISO I needed for the testing :P
[00:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ohhhhh I see.
[00:54] <arraybolt3> (I have this bad habit of leaving ALL MY ISOs BEHIND every time I switch devices...)
[00:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Hehehe, I see.
[00:56] <arraybolt3> And this is the third time I've switched devices, so... yeah. I think I have, like, one jammy ISO for Lubuntu and a bunch of Kinetic, and that's it. (Of course, the SSD of my old laptop is brimming with ISOs, and I *had* a whole ton of ISOs on my 12 TB HDD too, which I then proceeded to nuke for reasons... >_<)
[00:56] <arraybolt3> Ahem. Alright, so, downloading the *daily* of Studio Jammy.
[00:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> I have a device (not sure they make them anymore) that lets me put .iso files on a hard drive or SSD and lets me select them, then it emulates a CD/DVD drive with the .iso I select.
[00:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> Huge time/space saver.
[00:57] <arraybolt3> Oh wow. Sounds like Ventoy in hardware.
[00:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's this: https://www.iodd.shop/IODD-2541-USB-30-external-encrypted-HDD-SSD-Enclosure
[01:00] <arraybolt3> Wow, that looks really neat. Now I want one. :D
[01:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> You can get them on Amazon for about $150, it looks like: https://amazon.com/iodd-External-Encrypted-Enclosure-Virtual/dp/B00S3G12E6/
[01:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> +$50 shipping
[01:08] <arraybolt3> Looks like the successor device is way cheaper and does the same thing. https://www.iodd.shop/IODD-ST400-USB-30-External-Encrypted-Hard-Drive-Enclosure (Er, way cheaper than Amazon at least.)
[01:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh nice!
[01:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, that's how much the 2541 used to be.
[01:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> I might have to remember that. My 2541 is showing signs of wear.
[01:17]  * arraybolt3 is scheming how one might go about getting the same functionality as that device but using hardware I already have
[01:21] <arraybolt3> I'm envisioning some sort of trickery using a Raspberry Pi emulating a USB device. I think the Pi Zero can do that, but I have a Pi 4B. Hmm...
[01:22] <arraybolt3> Anyway, this is probably better in #ubuntustudio-offtopic, so I'll stop muddying this channel with it.
[01:22] <OvenWerks> yeah, it's so busy here  ;)
[01:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: You forgot the /s :)
[01:23] <arraybolt3> lol I like to respect channel topics unless I know good and well that nobody cares.
[01:23] <Eickmeyer[m]> Think about who the channel op is. (hint, you're reading from him right now)
[01:23] <arraybolt3> Yeah :)
[01:26] <arraybolt3> Actually I think I have an idea how one could emulate a device like that. I wonder if you could make a GPT-partitioned HDD, put GRUB in the first partition, then flash ISOs directly to each subsequent partition and just jump to them using... bah, can't remember the command (it's not blockloader or blockchain or bootchain or... but it ends in a +1)
[01:26] <arraybolt3> chainloader +1
[01:26] <Eickmeyer[m]> I used to do something similar to that, then I got this device and my live was changed.
[01:27] <arraybolt3> It definitely would be a lot of work, but for someone who hangs out in r/Frugal it would be worth it.
[01:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Just don't hang out in r/linuxaudio. It gets toxic in there. People will discredit you even if you know what you're talking about.
[01:29] <arraybolt3> But it would probably also boot the ISOs in BIOS mode, if it worked at all. Hmm... the other alternative would be to copy the contents and then use GRUB to boot each one, I've done weird stuff like that before.
[01:30] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer[m]: Sounds like 90% of Reddit. :P I spend most of my time in r/DebateAChristian (under a different account name, though - I prefer to keep u/ArrayBolt3 separate from my religious stuff so that I don't have people from secular subreddits attacking all my Christian content...)
[01:30]  * OvenWerks finds that usb-devices doesn't seem to list a second device from the same bus if it is the same device.
[01:30] <arraybolt3> Gets insanely intense sometimes but it can be quite enjoyable.
[01:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Somehow, not surpsised.
[01:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Honestly, sounds like a bug with usb-devices.
[01:32] <OvenWerks> lsusb does
[01:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> Honestly, not surprising either. lsusb is a bit more... robust in that respect, for a lack of a better term. Just harder to parse.
[01:35] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: the only thing that seems to get the info I want is lsusb -t
[01:36] <OvenWerks> I would like to use -s bus:device and get port
[01:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> That's a nice tree view.
[01:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: studio-controls 2.3.9 (finally) in lunar and backported to kinetic and jammy, FYI and if you didn't see it.
[01:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> Seems to work pretty well, but setting governor is somewhat slower.
[01:37] <OvenWerks> but -t shows all devices so line by line and rememeber which bus I am in.
[01:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> Too bad they can't be used in conjunction.
[01:40] <arraybolt3> Whoa, is -proposed supposed to be enabled by default on the Studio daily? I dunno if I just forgot turning it on after getting sidetracked or if it actually was on by default just now.
[01:40] <OvenWerks> yeah just downloaded.
[01:40] <arraybolt3> Oh wait, it's *not* enabled after all, hmm...
[01:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: There's not a live .iso in the Ubuntu world where proposed is enabled by default.
[01:41] <arraybolt3> And software-properties-kde won't let me uncheck the box. Alright, looks like we have a bug.
[01:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> You better be darn sure that's a bug because anything in the Qt interface is nearly impossible to get fixed.
[01:41] <arraybolt3> When I open software-properties-kde on the Studio daily, it has "Pre-released updates" checked. But looking at /etc/apt/sources.list, -proposed isn't enabled. And attempting to uncheck the box results in it immediately checking itself again.
[01:42] <arraybolt3> OK, right now I need to do a Calamares test, but in just a bit I'll be testing that too, most likely.
[01:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, you better be absolutely sure and check that in Kubuntu and Lubuntu as well.
[01:42] <arraybolt3> Will do.
[01:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> Especially since it's the exact same package.
[01:43] <arraybolt3> Bah, how do I enable -proposed from the command line? I tried adding a jammy-proposed line in my sources.list but that appeared to do pretty much nothing.
[01:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> Getting the powers that be to 1) fix that or 2) accept a merge/pull request to fix it is next to impossible, so I want to be 120% sure we have a bug there. They treat software-properties bugs  in the Qt interface like Ubiquity bugs in the Qt interface.
[01:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
[01:45] <OvenWerks> I can't try it out though because I have PW enabled 
[01:45] <arraybolt3> Shoot, that's what I did.
[01:45] <arraybolt3> (Sorta - I edited the file with nano to do the same thing.)
[01:46] <arraybolt3> It just keeps telling me all packages are up to date.
[01:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: It was an FYI, I expected since you're working on 3.0 you wouldn't be able to try it. I was trying it earlier, seemed fine.
[01:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: That seems suspect, like you updated all packages from -proposed, aka the big yikes.
[01:47] <arraybolt3> Yeah, and I haven't run any "apt (full-)upgrade" commands yet.
[01:47]  * arraybolt3 forcibly shuts down VM and tries again with the same ISO to see what happens.
[01:48] <arraybolt3> (FWIW I SHA256 and GPG checked this ISO.)
[01:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, it's definitely the ISO's fault, I just made a new VM with exactly the same setup as before, the pre-released updates box is checked by default and adding jammy-proposed to sources.list and then running apt update results in being told that all packages are up to date.
[01:52] <arraybolt3[m]> So... one good way to find out for sure if somehow -proposed snuck in...
[01:52]  * arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/3c788789f18f2407be46d560330fdad868f1c5d5
[01:53] <arraybolt3[m]> And https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares/3.2.61-0ubuntu0.1 is the proposed package.
[01:53] <arraybolt3[m]> i.e., the Studio daily is shipping with -proposed packages installed by default.
[01:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Compare that to my host OS, which does this:
[01:55]  * arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/75c21b5f0edf71285f0b3ca449fce6a9dddeb727
[01:55] <arraybolt3[m]> And I do not have -proposed enabled on the host.
[01:55]  * arraybolt3[m] boots the VM in BIOS without Secure Boot to verify that I've not lost my mind
[01:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope. I am 100% sure. Somehow Ubuntu Studio's current daily ISO has -proposed packages installed by default. Probably all of them, but at least Calamares for sure.
[01:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> This is Jammy daily, right?
[01:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Yes.
[01:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Is Lubuntu the same way?
[01:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm asking because it might be that way for Calamares testing.
[02:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Not sure yet.
[02:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> That would also explain the software-properties issue you were experiencing.
[02:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: My best guess is the release team has (temporarily) enabled proposed until the calamares testing is done. Easier to do that than to hand-wave it through and revert it if there's an "oops".
[02:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense. I'm getting a Lubuntu daily now.
[02:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Great news. Lubuntu is behaving exactly the same way.
[02:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Testing time!
[02:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> \o/
[02:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm. Well Calamares seems to be working just fine, but remember the SDDM glitch back in Kinetic, where it would display the on-screen keyboard on a black screen, and then if you entered your password blindly and logged in, it would flash a weird screen for a fraction of a second before going to the desktop normally? That's happening to me, at least in Boxes.
[02:50] <arraybolt3[m]> This time it's in Jammy, though.
[02:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> Might be worth a test on actual hardware. Could be a glitch in qemu/boxes for all we know.
[02:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Good idea. And this will give us a BIOS test too. And put a rather nice-but-old laptop back in operation :)
[03:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> My money is that it's not a regression, and certainly not caused by calamares.
[03:01] <arraybolt3[m]> +1 on it not being Calamares, as for the regression, I think it's probably a regression, but maybe one we don't care about since it's in a VM.
[03:02] <arraybolt3[m]> And as you've pointed out before, Studio specifically doesn't support VMs.
[03:05] <arraybolt3[m]> (Total off-topic, but I'm still using the KFocus over here. And still amazed at how good of a job you guys did on it. And still using it as my daily driver.)
[03:09] <Eickmeyer[m]> Awesome, great to hear. :)
 "My money is that it's not a..." <- Alright, sad news. It is indeed a regression. And it's happening on physical hardware.
[03:27]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (966KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/zDmmcEFbzjvYSxYOKbkfbQKD/Picture%202022-11-14%2021-27-12.png >
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> (I am really bad at taking webcam pictures...)
[03:28] <Eickmeyer[m]> Is it SDDM then?
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Yes, pretty sure.
[03:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> sddm wasn't updated, so not likely.
[03:30] <arraybolt3[m]> This is the screen I get at when I do a failed login on accident.
[03:30]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (772KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/WuPMmmPaoHxpYDosGvWAumcR/Picture%202022-11-14%2021-29-59.png >
[03:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> That points to a regression in the breeze sddm theme.
[03:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Source package is plasma-workspace.
[03:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> BUT, since -proposed is enabled, I wouldn't worry about it, because we're likely to see a bunch of stuff screwed up. This is only to test Calamares, remember?
[03:33] <arraybolt3[m]> Yep. OK, that makes sense. I forgot about that.
[03:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> That's going to have to be a separate test, likely as we get closer to 22.04.2.
[03:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> If it is an issue, I have a fix already that I had to put into 22.10's ubuntustudio-default-settings package as a workaround.
[03:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's easy to forget we're only testing for one specific component. You have no idea how many times I have to reign Mike back in from that when we have testing going on. He falls down rabbit holes all the time.
[03:37] <arraybolt3[m]> :P
[03:39] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm pretty used to testing, like, EVERYTHING all at the same time, so that's probably a weakness I'm going to have too.
[03:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right. It's handy when needed, but when you have only one job it becomes a time-suck.
[03:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> That to say, I wouldn't call it a weakness. It's a strength at times, but a weakness at others. A strenthness.
[03:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> As Adrian Monk would say, "It's a blessing, and a curse."
[03:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer[m]: lol
[03:47] <arraybolt3[m]> I think my worst one is "Holy smoke, there's a bug! Alright, I'll remember to report it later." Three months later when we're in a pre-release time crunch "OH HEY guess what I just remembered..."
[03:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Which reminds me, I have a fix for the lack of a swap file.
[03:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> I just don't... have a bug report. >.<
[03:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Wait, I thought... did I not file that one?
[03:49]  * arraybolt3[m] digs in Launchpad
[03:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope. Case in point, I guess.
[03:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, that's why I was reminded. 😅
[03:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Which package should I file it against?
[03:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> calamares-settings-ubuntu
[03:51] <arraybolt3[m]> K.
[03:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> File it, I'll take care of the details including the SRU conversion since it'll have to be fixed in lunar, "won't fix" for kinetic, and "Confirmed" for jammy.
[03:53] <arraybolt3[m]> It's obvious that it's just a lack of configuration, and it happens the same on every machine, so I'm going to skip ubuntu-bug so that I don't have to log into Launchpad on a VM or other system with my randomly-generated Google Chrome password that takes forever to type in.
[03:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right, don't worry about ubuntu-bug, it's obvious.
[03:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'll worry about the details in the morning. I'm probably heading to bed early because 1) still a little jetlagged, and 2) feeling a cold coming on (likely the conference crud).
[03:55] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I have to go afk for a while, I'll file the bug when I get back (if I remember, which I hopefully will).
[03:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, no worries.
[20:07] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: in controls  (have long question :) where ever we list a USB description we list it as:
[20:08] <OvenWerks> USB* (Device) manufacture string device string
[20:09] <OvenWerks> where Device is the hw:string and USB* is the controls asigned USB number.
[20:09] <OvenWerks> this is already sometimes a long string:
[20:10] <OvenWerks> USB1 (Device) C-Media Electronics Inc. USB Audio Device
[20:11] <OvenWerks> as an example.
[20:12] <OvenWerks> I do not know that the hw:* name is that useful so I am thinking of getting rid of that.
[20:15] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: agreed. The more we can simplify/prettify the names, the better.
[20:17] <OvenWerks> I now have a string that is bus-port that should always map to a phtsical port on the machine
[20:17] <OvenWerks> *physical
[20:19] <OvenWerks>  I am thinking maybe USB* (portID) manufacture string
[20:22] <OvenWerks> My thinking is that portID is something the user can use to label a USB port on their machine
[20:25] <OvenWerks> the portID is in the form 02-4
[20:27] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: would (02-4) be enough? or does it need to be (portID:02-4)?
[20:28] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Nah 02-4 would be enough.
[20:29] <Eickmeyer> I feel as though the simpler the better. No need to overcomplicate it.
[20:29] <Eickmeyer> I honestly couldn't tell you where the physical ports are on my system based on the number.
[20:32] <OvenWerks> once I add this you will be able to plug in a usb audio device and then you will know :)
[20:33] <OvenWerks> you could map all the ports on your device  by plugging the device into each one
[20:36] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think the only people this will help are those who do podcasts with more than one identical usb mics
[20:41] <OvenWerks> I need to add a "remove unplugged" button too so that devices a user no longer owns or devices they have used to map ports don't clog up the database
[20:41] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, that's fair. Would be helpful like, if you have 2 of the same mic, like Shure M7 and Shure M7 (1) or something like that.
[20:48] <OvenWerks> The most common seems to be Device, Device_1 and Device_2, etc.
[20:48] <OvenWerks> they all use the same c-media chip I guess.
[20:52] <OvenWerks> ALSA takes the last word in the device description: USB Audio Device
[20:58] <Eickmeyer> Yeah.
[21:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey about that IODD thingy for OS installers, this is a cheaper version that omits some of the fancier features like encryption but still provides the same drive emulation stuff: https://www.iodd.shop/IODD-ST300-USB-30-External-Write-Protected-Hard-Drive-Enclosure
[21:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh also I remembered to report the swap file bug... just now, at least. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares-settings-ubuntu/+bug/1996646
[21:40] -ubottu:#ubuntustudio-devel- Launchpad bug 1996646 in calamares-settings-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "No option for creating a swap file at install time on Ubuntu Studio" [Undecided, New]
[21:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Ah, cool.
[21:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Excellent, thanks!
[21:45] <OvenWerks> I guess I always use the manual partition tool...
[21:50] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: interesting thing. Three USB devices plugged in. Run convert, Three usb devices are added but the 3rd seems to be a copy of thr second. Run it again and there are 4 USB devices in the db, again one is dublicated/not conmplete. Run it a 3rd time and there are three devices, all complete and unique labeled USB1, USB3 and USB4
[21:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> 🤨
[21:51] <OvenWerks> so I guess USB2 gets removed as a dup so USB3 stays and because USB2 was in use USB4 is created.
[21:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Am I the only one who smells a race condition here...
[21:52]  * OvenWerks is out a bit
[21:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Smells like something for sure.
[21:52] <arraybolt3[m]> This sounds almost exactly like something my software has done before when I was bad at multithreading.
[21:53] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'm still bad at multithreading, fwiw...)