[00:01] <tsimonq2> Who can't see the amazing deals Kwik Trip has?? $1 espresso drinks on Mondays!!
[00:02] <kc2bez[m]> No KwikTrip here sadly. :(
[00:02] <kc2bez[m]> I see your picture though.
[01:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> Looks like the best solution for bug 1996646 is to make partition.conf common unless there are any objections Simon Quigley et al
[01:36] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 1996646 in calamares-settings-ubuntu (Ubuntu Lunar) "No option for creating a swap file at install time on Ubuntu Studio" [Medium, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996646
[01:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: That will leave you with a meager 512 MB swapfile though. Or it will give Lubuntu swapfiles larger than 512 MB.
[01:38] <arraybolt3[m]> I would think that Lubuntu would be fine with a 512 MB swapfile, but that Ubuntu Studio would want something closer to 4 GB or possibly the same size as the system's installed RAM.
[01:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: partition.conf doesn't even specify a swapfile size.
[01:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh... I didn't know that.
[01:39] <arraybolt3[m]> That setting is somewhere else I presume?
[01:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> Nowhere I can find.
[01:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I know that Neon uses a swap partition the same size as the system's RAM, so it's gotta be somewhere.
[01:42]  * arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/541682a3a6a49439f2aa8a6d03ba7fb3ae8b16b9
[01:42] <kc2bez[m]> Swapfile is hard-coded. There was an upstream discussion about it.
[01:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm guessing Lubuntu has [small] and [file] set, whereas Studio might want [suspend] set instead of [small].
[01:43] <kc2bez[m]> Swap partition can be set in the configuration 
[01:44] <kc2bez[m]> We have file, not partition 
[01:44] <arraybolt3[m]> True. I was just saying, there is some way to control swap <whatever> size in Calamares, so the setting's gotta be somewhere. I think this is it.
[01:44] <kc2bez[m]> They don't work the same.
[01:45] <arraybolt3[m]> (Actually Lubuntu might not have [small] or [suspend] set, which may be why it always makes a 512 MB file.)
[01:45] <arraybolt3[m]> kc2bez[m]: Hmm... how so? I thought I was looking at the docs that showed swap file and swap partition settings in the same spot.
[01:46]  * arraybolt3[m] is probably missing something
[01:46] <kc2bez[m]> The settings are in the same spot but the creation is different 
[01:46] <kc2bez[m]> The swapfile creation size is hard-coded. The swap partition size is adjustable.
[01:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Ohhh. Ouch. Weird.
[01:47] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess if Eickmeyer want's only 512 MB swap, we can easily share the config (I think).
[01:47] <arraybolt3[m]> s/want's/wants/
[01:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Actually, the "suspend" option is looking appealing.
[01:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> But on my machine (64GB RAM), that'd be Yuuuuge.
[01:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Maybe we can get a feature to allow a selectable swap [file|partition] size into Calamares?
[01:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> You can enable more than one option.
[01:49] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean if swapfile size is fixed already, there might not be much we can do, but swap partition size looks adjustable, and it might not be too much work to make the setting adjustable.
[01:52] <kc2bez[m]> The drop down appears when you have more than one option. We have file and none in Lubuntu.
[01:53] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice.
[01:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm thinking "none, file, and small" if we share a config.
[01:54] <arraybolt3[m]> I've seen people want hibernation to work on Lubuntu, is there any reason to not just have all the options available?
[01:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> If you want hibernation, then you need the suspend option as well.
[01:54] <kc2bez[m]> Hibernation won't work with the kernel we ship 
[01:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> ^ That's true.
[01:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, really? I thought I saw a guy on Reddit get it working just the other day.
[01:55] <kc2bez[m]> It is very hit or miss and mostly miss.
 *burps and shoves arraybolt3 into the void*
[01:55] <kc2bez[m]> You might get it working if you use a different kernel
[01:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm. Didn't know that. I'd dig into "what's the missing kernel feature" but then I'd be jumping down a rabbit hole :P
[01:56] <kc2bez[m]> It is super hardware dependent too.
[01:57] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: It needs the right sleep modes enabled I think. 
[01:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, if this is the case, then I guess I'll throw it back into separate configs.
[01:59] <kc2bez[m]> Suspend should be fine, just not hibernate.
[02:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: I don't see any reason to not have "none, file, and small" if that's sufficient for Ubuntu Studio. It seems sufficient for Lubuntu to my mind. I mean for Lubuntu, I *think* (just my personal opinion) that this is just a matter of taste, whereas it's a matter of functionality for Studio, so I don't see any reason to not share a config with those options enabled (or even the "suspend" options added).
[02:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> Fair, but if we want a shared config, I want all stakeholders to be able to agree on it.
[02:02] <arraybolt3[m]> s/*think*/_think_/, s/options/option/
[02:02] <arraybolt3[m]> (Apparraantly I cnn't splel tonight)
[02:03] <kc2bez[m]> I can get behind that logic as long as we don't change the default. Simon Quigley: might have different feelings though. 
[02:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right. 
[02:04] <arraybolt3[m]> +1
[02:05] <Eickmeyer[m]> I guess, for now, we'll stay separate. I'll make it "none" and "small" for Studio, and if we agree on all 3 then we can go ahead with the common one, but for now this fixes the bug.
[02:05] <arraybolt3[m]> I think it would be a feature enhancement for Lubuntu to have larger swap partitions available too. I mean 512 MB is not a lot, people cramped for RAM might like it.
[02:06] <kc2bez[m]> Manually partitioning is always an option too.
[02:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right, but I'm a freak when it comes to UX.
[02:07] <kc2bez[m]> It isn't super user friendly though 
[02:07]  * arraybolt3[m] loves good UX
[02:07] <kc2bez[m]> Exactly 
[02:07] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll use something functional that has terrible UX, but I won't be thrilled giving it to someone else, even if I particularly like it.
[02:08] <kc2bez[m]> Right, I agree 
[02:09] <Eickmeyer[m]> Anyhow, I'll get my fix pushed and uploaded, we'll revisit the common config at a later time. :)
[02:09] <kc2bez[m]> Sounds like a plan. Thanks!
[02:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Sounds good to me!
[11:56] <arraybolt3> Woohoo, looks like Lunar dailies have been switched on! Here's hoping we'll see them soon.
 So it is back to work for me.. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3> Woohoo, looks like Lunar dailies have been switched on! Here's hoping we'll see them soon.)
[12:27] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3: thanks for your follow up on the Calamares SRU. 
[12:27] <arraybolt3> Glad to help!
 Just noticed our 1 st lunar daily build failed 5 minutes ago..
[16:53] <RikMills> "<sil2100> Whoops, okay, image builds failing as we didn't get all the seeded snap channels set up"
[16:53] <RikMills> in #ubuntu-release
[17:26] <kgiii> Yup. I see Lunar listed in the testing tracker, but nothing is ready to download yet. Soon!!!
[17:29] <tsimonq2> + UBUNTU_STORE_ARCH=amd64 SNAPPY_STORE_NO_CDN=1 snap download --cohort= --channel=stable/ubuntu-23.04 firefox Fetching snap "firefox" store_download.go:143: no host system xdelta3 available to use deltas error: cannot download snap "firefox": no snap revision available as specified If the channel (stable/ubuntu-23.04) includes '*/ubuntu-##.##' track per Ubuntu policy (ex. stable/ubuntu-18.04) the publisher will need to temporarily create
[17:29] <tsimonq2> the channel/track to allow fallback during download (ex. stable/ubuntu-18.04 falls back to stable if the prior had been created in the past).
[17:29] <tsimonq2> Ah, looks like I concur :P
[19:44] <lubuntero> Hi lubuntu devs , any plans to set a backports PPA to lubuntu 22.10? , I asked because I was trying to find the safest way to update lxqt to 1.2 version.
[19:45] <tsimonq2> Heya! There are no plans for 22.10, as it's only an interim release, but there definitely are plans for 22.04
[19:46] <tsimonq2> For LXQt 1.2, I'd estimate before the end of the year
[19:47] <lubuntero> Oh ok, thanks for the quick answer and thanks for make lubuntu a thing!
[19:48] <tsimonq2> Of course, thanks for flying Lubuntu ;D
[20:50] <tsimonq2> Paging arraybolt3 - I have a few simple questions re: Debian LXQt I'd like answered ASAP :)
[20:58] <tsimonq2> I'm well enough to assume my Release Manager duties again.
[20:59] <tsimonq2> I'm going to note Debian bug 1023787 exactly once - I would have used a softer tone in hindsight, but it does outline our current relations with the Debian LXQt team, and the fact that the Debian Release Team isn't happy with it right now.
[20:59] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Debian bug 1023787 in release.debian.org "transition: liblxqt" [Normal, Open] https://bugs.debian.org/1023787
[21:01] <tsimonq2> When I come back, I will be spending a significant amount of time staging and landing LXQt 1.2 in Ubuntu, to land in Lunar and Backports Staging by EOD tomorrow. I understand this decision may not be widely understood, but it was made aware to me that this situation has gotten out of hand without my involvement.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> Thanks for your patience while we're going through this process. Words cannot describe how helpful, useful, cooperative, and adaptive Aaron has been in this situation, but it's time for me to step in and wrap it up.
[21:16] <tsimonq2> Additionally, I am about to retry the Lunar daily, I'm pretty sure it will build this time. :)
[21:20] <RikMills> tsimonq2: qa tracker has no builds to retry. if you have perms to kick one off via the infra, do kubuntu as well ;)
[21:20] <tsimonq2> RikMills: Jinx with the message I just put in -release ;)
[21:20] <RikMills> just saw it
[21:40] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: I'm here.
[21:42]  * arraybolt3[m] > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> I'm well enough to assume my Release Manager duties again.
[21:42]  * arraybolt3[m] sighs with relief and hands the Release Manager hat back to Simon
 "When I come back, I will be..." <- Just wanting to remind you about your comment earlier wrt copyright files,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/bf9942d3c102b98c9f092b2829e769e06a2be5e5>)
[21:45] <arraybolt3[m]> If things have changed, I'm fine with rolling with whatever choices you make, but just in case that was forgotten, there it is.
[22:03] <tsimonq2> Thank you for that! :)
[22:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, so what were your questions?
[22:04] <arraybolt3[m]> (Mainly I've been focused on trying to reduce the tension between the teams by just doing things Andrew's way unless I know we have a particular objection to it. So far it seems to have kinda sorta worked, but looking at the bug report, I'm seeing more about how things happened the way they happened.)
[22:04] <tsimonq2> How far exactly did you get with upstreaming?
[22:04] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I appreciate that :)
[22:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Due to the scope and scale of the work Andrew wanted done, four packages were uploaded so far, one was approved (lxqt-build-tools) but not yet merged in.
[22:05] <arraybolt3[m]> *five packages uploaded, I mean.
[22:05] <arraybolt3[m]> https://notes.lubuntu.me/h4b5fQtYQFS1t_oRwAT-ZQ?both
[22:05] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm currently working on pavucontrol-qt.
[22:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Basically, the workflow I've been using is:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/a95076a9fb169f97bea9c3725aec1a5fb68e031d>)
[22:09] <arraybolt3[m]> This is, to the best of my knowledge, the way that Andrew was specifically asking for it to be done, and doing it this way seems to have resulted in things going smoothly as far as personal interaction goes.
[22:12] <tsimonq2> Sounds good, thanks
[22:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Also, I have not approached the topic of symbols files yet, and now that you're back I'm guessing it's highly likely you're going to want to do that and be better at it.
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: If you're attacking LXQt packaging, you will very, very likely want/need this: https://notes.lubuntu.me/KN-jwXHyS5SrdnwZapV6WQ (debian/watch file fix for GitHub)
[22:32] <arraybolt3[m]> > <@arraybolt3:matrix.org> Just wanting to remind you about your comment earlier wrt copyright files,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e26b1f0ca39ce083829cef0a1ee23f0a3ab42632>)
[22:35] <tsimonq2> Thank you very much for all your help, keep the information coming if you have more that you'd like to add :)
[22:36] <arraybolt3[m]> The only other thing I can think of that's of any consequence is any communications between me and Andrew. I can paste them here, DM them, email, however you want them, if you want them.
[22:37] <arraybolt3[m]> It was mostly just Debian LXQt Team membership stuff (I asked for and got a second renewal of membership), and him instructing me on how I should do packaging in Debian for LXQt, which I summed up the process for above.
[22:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Welp, also just found something else interesting - upstream LXQt needs to be more clear with licensing info :P Turns out pavucontrol-qt, which I thought was GPL-2-only for the repo itself, actually is GPL-2+... but I only learned that because the info was hidden in a particular source code file. So... we may need to submit some upstream MRs for the AUTHORS file.
[23:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, finished pavucontrol-qt.
[23:07]  * arraybolt3[m] has to go afk just real quick, I'll be right back.
[23:08] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4951
[23:09] <tsimonq2> I will be dual-staging in Backports Staging
[23:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Is the work I'm doing in Debian still helpful?
[23:09] <arraybolt3[m]> I assume at least the copyright file updates will do some good.
[23:10] <arraybolt3[m]> (I didn't realize we were in a dire situation, so I was doing things at my own pace, attempting to make peace and get work done.)
[23:11] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yes, it certainly is
[23:11] <tsimonq2> I want to prove, in Ubuntu, that the transition Does No Harm ™️
[23:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice.
[23:44] <tsimonq2> I: libqt5xdgiconloader3: symbols-file-missing-build-depends-package-field libQt5XdgIconLoader.so.3 [symbols]                                                                                 
[23:44] <tsimonq2> may be good low-hanging fruit to investigate, it's just an info tag so meh, whenever we can :)
[23:45] <tsimonq2> I'm through the second stage of LXQt, just expecting to have to iterate once more for symbols
[23:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Sanity check something for me, will you?... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/5ed3207d42a09f9a5092500368e42dca0ac36e8a>)
[23:49] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean it looks like a no-op to me - of course it replaces libqtermwidget5-1... because it is libqtermwidget5-1.
[23:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Also, turns out that this involves symbols files, so guess I'm skipping that for now.
[23:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I think you're right, yeah
[23:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Also, another important piece of info, this is one of those communications between me and Andrew that I just realized may have critical significance here.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2fd37768bfbcbd421e1c966db4a8615efd89f9bd>)
[23:52] <arraybolt3[m]> This was from when I started the LXQt work this cycle, when I was submitting MRs against experimental. I now am submitting MRs against sid instead.
[23:54] <tsimonq2> I'm so sorry to have gotten you in the middle of this - he's flat-out treating it like a mess, my point entirely in the bug report was, yeah, I did have lax packaging standards... but we were going to get to that before it went to Sid. He just came in out of nowhere and started declaring what was right and wrong, when, well, me and him have the same rank in Debian...
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, it taught me how to use git-buildpackage without hardly any fuss, so woot!
[23:55] <tsimonq2> Let's just say I'm very pleasantly surprised with how well you've been taking all of this :)
[23:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Initially it was making me pretty upset, but my best friend is really good at unraveling messes like this :) Very thankful for her advice.
[23:59] <tsimonq2> I'm glad to hear it :)