[00:27] <tsimonq2> The vast majority of LXQt 1.2 just hit the Lunar proposed pocket.
[00:27] <tsimonq2> Further progress will be uploaded straight to the archive for Lunar, and straight to Backports Staging for Jammy
[00:27] <tsimonq2> Hone stretch...
[00:28] <tsimonq2>  * Home stretch...
[00:28] <tsimonq2> # category LXQt in not yet in freedesktop specs - no bug
[00:28] <tsimonq2> lxqt-session: desktop-entry-invalid-category LXQt usr/share/applications/lxqt-*.desktop
[00:28] <tsimonq2> what was that bug again
[00:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> Simon Quigley: So what you're saying is Launchpad didn't eat your uploads. I was about to claim responsibility because I was hungry.
[00:54] <tsimonq2> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[01:22] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New binary: libfm-qt [s390x] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.2.0-0ubuntu1] (lubuntu)
[01:31] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New binary: libfm-qt [amd64] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.2.0-0ubuntu1] (lubuntu)
[01:32] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New binary: libfm-qt [ppc64el] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.2.0-0ubuntu1] (lubuntu)
[01:41]  * tsimonq2 takes a short break while Backports Staging settles down, before working on the last three packages
[01:43] <tsimonq2> teward Dan Simmons: Since you two have the necessary powers, I'd appreciate some retry button hitting. I uploaded the entire LXQt stack at once, but it all builds, when it's done in the correct order :P if you don't have time today, no worries
[01:43] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: you, get your darn powers already, so you can help >:P
[01:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great, what scary thing are you going to try to make me able to do this time? :P Just kidding, whenever you and the rest of the Council think I'm ready to be grilled for getting extra powers, I'll find time to prepare for the grilling.
[01:44] <arraybolt3[m]> s/rest of the//
[01:46] <tsimonq2> Let's put a date on the calendar of your choice, to hold the IRC meeting. Ideally it would be one with full attendance from ~lubuntu-dev. Then, prepare for that date :)
[01:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Doodle poll, maybe?
[01:47] <tsimonq2> In my personal opinion, you recently crossed the threshold of "ready" for PPU (per-packageset uploader, which is what becoming a Lubuntu Developer is)
[01:47] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Great idea :)
[01:48] <tsimonq2> The reason the Phab wiki page has high standards is because I'd rather the applicant vastly over-prepare (and I enjoy curveball questions). You're eventually going to need to use all of those resources :)
 "teward Dan Simmons: Since you..." <- I won't be able to look at it until the morning but I will give it a look. 
[01:49] <tsimonq2> kc2bez[m]: No worries, thank you!
[01:49] <tsimonq2> (As in, please do if you still have the time in the morning, whatever is left ;) )
[01:57] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New binary: libfm-qt [arm64] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.2.0-0ubuntu1] (lubuntu)
[02:01] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New binary: libfm-qt [armhf] (lunar-proposed/universe) [1.2.0-0ubuntu1] (lubuntu)
[04:27] <tsimonq2> Alright, looks like we're set.
[04:27] <tsimonq2> All of LXQt 1.2 has now been uploaded to Lunar, and should publish to Backports Staging in the next hour 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
[04:28] <tsimonq2> I'll be putting it through a manual "does it install" test and hand off to QA to help with the rest, if possible :)
[05:07] <tsimonq2> https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/aqzp8qWiByLG.png?o=1
[05:21] <tsimonq2> guiverc, Leo K et al.: https://lubuntu.me/lxqt1-2-jammy-backports-cft/ have at it :)
[05:25] <guiverc[m]> ack..   me still without reliable internet (up for secs only), ETA is next Friday for fix (in 3rd week without internet as of tomorrow anyway) so my capacity to test is minimal.... haven't updated my system since I lost internet
[05:26] <guiverc[m]> thanks Simon Quigley 
[05:37] <tsimonq2> guiverc: No worries, I wish you the best of luck :)
[05:38] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: I added two new shiny items to The List :P
[05:39] <tsimonq2> That being said, I think the next thing is to help you get all of this into Debian... so let's see what progress is made this week
[05:39] <tsimonq2> guiverc: to be fair too, dailies still aren't out yet :)
[05:40] <tsimonq2> I plan on taking a mob to the mailing list on Monday or so if I don't hear anything :P
[05:42]  * guiverc[m] isn't worried about dailies yet... I've delayed replacing my dead-primary-PC as without internet, my capacity to install/setup system is limited anyway, so I don't need to lunar-daily until I've got (a) working internet & (b) purchased my replacement primary desktop.
[05:44] <tsimonq2> If there's anything we/I can do to help, don't be afraid to reach out :)
[05:50] <RikMills> tsimonq2: lubuntu backports ppa. what happens if someone wants to upgrade 22.04 to 22.10?
[05:51] <RikMills> i.e. they have lxqt 1.2 depending on Qt 5.15.3 ABI from backports, but 22.10 has lxqt depending on qt 5.15.6 ABI
[05:52] <RikMills> *22.10 has lxqt 1.1
[05:52] <RikMills> so upgrading QT breaks the installed 1.2?
[06:08] <tsimonq2> That's a really good point... hm
[06:38] <RikMills> tsimonq2: https://i.imgur.com/hzzD1oL.png
[06:39] <RikMills> is that acceptable?
[06:41] <guiverc[m]> thanks for checking/testing RikMills 
[06:42] <RikMills> similar situation I face as to whether to backport plasma 5.26
[06:46] <guiverc[m]> there are a load of LTS users who won't release-upgrade to the non-LTS releases (22.10 etc) thus still useful to many, but a disclaimer on usage of lxqt 1.2 maybe required to make users aware of the issue with using it.
[06:48] <tsimonq2> RikMills: Very good point yet again, yeah, looks like we have work to do ;)
[06:49] <RikMills> guiverc[m]: might be ok for lubuntu, as backports ppa is not such an established thing. saying that, many people will not read or follow 3rd party instructions from the click bait bloggers
[06:50] <RikMills> with kubuntu it is such a 'thing' now to add backports, that people will rarely check for caveats
[06:53]  * RikMills goes for more coffee
[06:55] <guiverc[m]> I suspect 95%+ of all users don't read doco or official posts anyway so yeah the point is extremely valid.. Me, I'm happy as long as we have the usage documented officially  (something I can point users too as a warning..)
[07:03] <tsimonq2> A couple initial thoughts:
[07:03] <tsimonq2>  - The standard workflow to upgrade from release to release is indeed `do-release-upgrade`. If there's a GUI tool we ship that does the same, I'd like to know about it, and if we don't, that's a bug.
[07:03] <tsimonq2>  - Through that workflow, users should really have two choices: you either downgrade LXQt to match what is in the archive (e.g. 22.10), and we deal with backwards-migration (ugh.) *or* you upgrade straight to the development release, which will be unstable but at least it'll match Backports
[07:06] <tsimonq2> And if we're going the route of "hey, downgrade back to what's in the archive" and trying to support that even somewhat competently, we'd make sure that the downgrade is only of *features* and that we're SRUing the noticeable bugfixes
[07:07] <tsimonq2> That would certainly work around the alternative, which is (I can't believe I'm even saying this) maintaining a full Qt stack in that PPA :/
[07:07]  * RikMills chokes
[07:07] <tsimonq2> Maybe if we had like... two extra people, just dedicated to Backporting, I could see maintaining a full Qt stack
[07:09] <tsimonq2> Anyway, let me actually sleep on this and see if I change my mind re: rationale in the morning. That's the best thing that comes to mind immediately
[07:10] <RikMills> indeed
 "All of LXQt 1.2 has now been..." <- Heh. I guess I don't have to worry about retries 🤣 Nice work Simon. 
[16:57] <kc2bez[m]> > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> A couple initial thoughts:
[16:57] <kc2bez[m]> >  - The standard workflow to upgrade from release to release is indeed `do-release-upgrade`. If there's a GUI tool we ship that does the same, I'd like to know about it, and if we don't, that's a bug.
[16:57] <kc2bez[m]> >  - Through that workflow, users should really have two choices: you either downgrade LXQt to match what is in the archive (e.g. 22.10), and we deal with backwards-migration (ugh.) *or* you upgrade straight to the development release, which will be unstable but at least it'll match Backports
[16:57] <kc2bez[m]> There is a gui tool, it is the same one that Kubuntu uses. The upgrade process is covered in the Ubuntu wiki and in an appendix to our manual. The wiki actually points to our manual. 
[16:59] <kc2bez[m]> I think the downgrade option is doable we just need to document it very well. Perhaps we carve out another appendix in the manual?
 "Heh. I guess I don't have to..." <- Thanks! Glad to have finished it heh
 "> <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> A..." <- Sounds good
[20:33] <tsimonq2> lubuntu-qa and testers: Please be careful updating your Lunar installation today, the LXQt 1.2 stack half-migrated.
[20:34] <tsimonq2> Currently working through excuses to see what's up
[20:38] <RikMills> apport might need some migration-reference running, as it blocks qterminal and konsole, and likely broken in release for its tests
 "lubuntu-qa and testers: ..." <- Ouch, thanks for the heads-up.
[20:39] <tsimonq2> RikMills: Any further details you're able to give would be appreciated 
[20:40] <RikMills> https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/a/apport/lunar/amd64
[20:40] <RikMills> especially the current top test
[20:41] <RikMills> or fix the dbus-x11 mess :P
[20:41] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: This is why you don't intentionally start transitions by yourself, word of advice 
[20:42] <tsimonq2> RikMills: challenge accepted, we ball
[20:42]  * tsimonq2 finds a caffeine source
[22:38] <tsimonq2> Quite a bit of the LXQt stack *just* migrated (as in < 5 minutes ago). I'm looking at the fresh excuses file now, to see if there's any remaining bit of the LXQt transition that needs to be dealt with
[22:39] <tsimonq2> In the meantime, publishing (including to mirrors) will take sometime in the neighborhood of an hour or two. Most of the desktop should now be installable :)
[22:42] <tsimonq2> The libfm-qt part of the stack migrated, leaving liblxqt and friends as "still needing to migrate" :P
[22:46] <tsimonq2> Good news: the last run was waiting on riscv64 builds for everything, so it should all *finally* migrate with the next run
[22:46] <tsimonq2> Bad news: runs have been taking (at minimum) 3 or 4 hours, so that plus another publisher + mirror cycle and we should be okay. Should. I'll have to check back at the end of that run
[23:03] <arraybolt3[m]> o/
[23:03] <tsimonq2> Hey Aaron :)
[23:03] <tsimonq2> How goes it?
[23:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Not bad at all, just getting stuff set up!
[23:04] <tsimonq2> Very nice :)
[23:17] <tsimonq2> First orders of business on my end...... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2657852e2da3c1e22f2aded0e73f2c5e13a7cf28>)
[23:18] <tsimonq2> I was recently reminded of https://github.com/lubuntu-team/ppa-britney and I think it would be a great thing to get up-to-date again. It seems as if my only patches to Britney itself were to add the Jenkins policy, blocking migration of packages if the Jenkins job is unstable.
[23:20] <tsimonq2> In terms of "most effective places to put engineering work" right now, well, someone from the Debian LXQt Team finally decided to step up and finish the LXQt 1.1 transition. If we wanted to be good open source citizens, we'd help them with 1.2. I have not witnessed Andrew pop into this discussion, so it looks like we're slightly moving on without him. I'm also part of the Debian LXQt Team, and I can review + upload merge requests. Let's
[23:20] <tsimonq2> get that done if there's still work to do
[23:20] <tsimonq2> That being said, immediately after that's done, the next order of business is our own internal processes. OpenQA, ppa-britney to auto-migrate Backports once it's fully installable (given the context of the rest of the archive), and lubuntu-installer-prompt
[23:21] <tsimonq2> The first item I'll be knocking out right now is related to the build graph, so I can at least have a visual view of what's going on in lunar-proposed right now
[23:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Sounds like a plan. I'm going to temporarily give up on setting up an IRC bouncer and try to just finish as much of Debian LXQt as possible.
[23:22] <arraybolt3[m]> (adduser is proving to be a bit of a Pain to make work right :P)
[23:22] <tsimonq2> Sounds good. I'll give you some time (it'll probably take me 30 minutes or so for this graph), but if you could ensure the aforementioned document tracking this is up-to-date, I'd appreciate it
[23:22] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Indeed :P
[23:23] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: You mean this right? https://notes.lubuntu.me/h4b5fQtYQFS1t_oRwAT-ZQ?both
[23:24] <tsimonq2> That link doesn't seem to work for me, for some reason
[23:26] <tsimonq2> OH I can see it now
[23:26] <tsimonq2> yeah
[23:26] <tsimonq2> okay, I don't have the necessary ACLs to edit that, wat o_OI
[23:26] <tsimonq2> s/o_OI/o\_O/
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> ?!
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> It's set to Limited, it should let you in...
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: ALright, I set it to Protected and then back to Limited, try that.
[23:32] <tsimonq2> nope
[23:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Are you actually in? I see that it says you edited it 8 minutes ago, but it also only says "1 online".
[23:35] <arraybolt3[m]> (Like, are you actually logged in...)
[23:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh also, that thing with filing an upstream bug about the GPL problems...
[23:36] <tsimonq2> maybe just create a brand new doc, copy the contents over, and don't touch perms?
[23:36] <tsimonq2> (and actually give it a clear level-one title at the top so as to not confuse CodiMD :P)
[23:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Will try, I didn't intentionally touch perms last time but it's CodiMD, it's supposedly a mess.
[23:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: https://notes.lubuntu.me/RnmnL-WpRAqZkWZQ7gaNpA
[23:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, that looks like it's working!
[23:38] <tsimonq2> yeah that one works :)
[23:38] <tsimonq2> \o/
[23:38] <tsimonq2> perfect :)
[23:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Don't forget, for a package you do in Debian, the copyright file needs *fully rebuilt*. Every single one I've tackled was either not done right, or missing tons of info.
[23:46] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm fully rebuilding every copyright file that I do.
[23:46] <tsimonq2> Sounds good to me :)
[23:46] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I appreciate that