[01:10] Eickmeyer: CCLI and presumably other chart sources provide "Chordpro" charts which are a markup language for charts. Ubuntu already has a CL program called chordii for converting these files to PS While possibly also changing key. [01:13] Eickmeyer: however there is also an actual chordpro program that includes a GUI based version that prints PDFs (or displays them. I think, judging by https://github.com/ChordPro/chordpro/blob/master/LICENSE that Fedora has it. It appears to be GPL 1+ or Artistic License as in the file included. [01:15] I don't know if we can pull that in or not [01:25] chordii seems to work alright even though it only makes post script files because our pdf reader deals with them just fine. [01:46] chordpro requires libpdf-api2-perl libtext-layout-perl libapp-packager-perl libfile-loadlines-perl libstring-interpolate-named-perl libimage-info-perl but even though their website feels debian/ubuntu should have these packages ubuntu does not seem to anyway. So maybe it is more work that it is worth. [01:46] doing the cpan install pulls eveything in anyway [02:47] * OvenWerks is not really happy with any of these yet. [15:34] OvenWerks: Looks interesting, I'll look into it. [17:21] Eickmeyer: I have continued looking.... There is a thing called music stand that CCLI suggests but from reading the comments, it wants to do a download every time you put together a set. There is no use predownloaded from a file library stuff. (CCLI of course charges by the DL) There are lots of other difficulties too. I think I will have to wait till I have a tablet to use. The main thing [17:21] is that I always know what the songs are but almost never the key and I am not to the Nashvile chart yet... though I probably could work with that on bass, guitar maybe not. I might try printing out a NV set using chordii. [17:22] Yeah, I'm very familiar with CCLI. They charge for every download unless you're a church with a subscription. [17:22] I think even then. [17:22] maybe it depends on the sub [17:22] It depends on the subscription. The churches I worked for were allowed unlimited downloads. [17:23] The place I was going a few years ago mentioned they paid for use [17:23] but the where we are now has a nicer one [17:23] I haven't asked what it is or charges [17:24] What are you trying to do? Get sheet music for church music? [17:25] Have something that I can change the key in real time [17:25] I think now is the time to learn nashville charting [17:25] back in a bit\ [17:33] OvenWerks: Honestly, ChordPro's licensing doesn't make me comfortable. GPL1+ is all well and good, but the problem is that, afaik, and per Debian's stance, the GPL can't be dual-licensed because it's a viral license and overrides anything it touches. Therefore, the license can't be GPL-1+ *AND* Artistic, therefore the LICENSE file, from a Debian [17:33] standpoint, is invalid. [17:34] Hence, probably why it's never been packaged for Debian or Ubuntu. [17:35] (Also why anything VST3 can't be packaged for Debian) [17:43] Not a disagreement, but why does the GPL override anything it touches? I mean the copyright owner can license things however they want, why can't they dual-license things? [17:45] arraybolt3: IANAL, but it has to do with the way it's worded and its viral-licensing nature. The Debian legal team has repeatedly taken the stance that a project, while it can contain components from multiple licenses, the project as a whole cannot be dual-licensed as GPL (or any viral license) and something else. [17:46] Hmm. I'm guessing they make an exception for Qt then? [17:47] I honestly don't know. I believe there are specific circumstances for Qt. For instance, if it's a commercial entity for a specific project, then Qt has a proprietary license. If it's for non-commercial or open-source, Qt is GPL. That's how they get around it. [17:48] In the case of VST3 and ChordPro it's "Take your pick" which doesn't jive. [17:48] Ah, because it's not a "pick any one you want", it's a "This is *the* license, if you want to go outside its requirement we have room for that with a different license". OK, I get it. [17:48] Because then someone could use it under the terms of the non-GPL license and then get sued for a GPL violation. [17:49] Exactly. [17:53] Is it _and_ or _or_? I got the idea it was OR not and [17:53] Even if it's OR, you can't pick-and-choose with the GPL. [17:54] So for dual licencing you have to keep two repos [17:54] They could just release two separate "versions" of the software, like ChordPro GPL edition and ChordPro Artistic Edition. Same code, different copyright headers everywhere, different downloads. [17:55] Correct. [17:55] If it was able to get their software into Debian they might do that. [17:55] (evn though GPL contains _or_ [17:55] OvenWerks: But that's "or any later version" of the GPL, not another license. [17:56] And that's only if the software is forked. But even if it's forked, it must still be GPL. [17:56] Same difference. GPL 1 is not GPL2 or GPL3 [17:56] If someone downloaded dual-licensed, GPL-ified code, how would you know which license they chose? What if they followed Artistic and got sued for GPL violation, or the other way around? Unless they specifically chose a license at download time or compile time. [17:57] Then they'd be bound to exactly that license (and hopefully the software would leave a record of what license was chosen). [17:58] * arraybolt3 wonders if maybe the problem could be circumvented with a clever Debian package that presented a license choice option to the user at install time [17:58] arraybolt3: There's no way to know, unfortunately, hence Debian makes a pretty hard stance as to not even touch it. [17:58] Eickmeyer: Exactly my point, thus why I see why Debian would reject it. [18:02] OK, back to figuring out why "killall" isn't present by default in the packaging for the lubuntu upgrader. [18:07] arraybolt3: Isn't "killall" part of the core and hence not part of any packaging? [18:07] Anyway, it is not a stellar application anyway. [18:08] Eickmeyer: It's part of psmisc. Having lubuntu-update-notifier not depend on psmisc is making autopkgtest grumpy. [18:08] Anyway I added the dep and it seems to have calmed it down there. [18:08] So now I get to fight with all my syntax and logic errors now! :D [18:08] Ah, I see. [18:11] * OvenWerks might make his own gui wrapper for chordii.