lotuspsychjegood morning02:40
marcoagpintolotuspsychje: good morning at 3am02:51
marcoagpintoI am working on open-source02:51
lotuspsychjehey, me too!02:52
marcoagpintonow that I am retired I can dedicate more time to it02:52
marcoagpintolook what I have written about it: https://proofingtoolgui.org/getting_involved.html02:53
marcoagpinto"Open-source software is becoming as good or better than commercial one, since we have the best/most dedicated team around. Some visionaries traced the path of humankind regarding free software decades ago. Indeed, β€œthere were giants in these days (…) and their footsteps can still be felt (…)”, and today we still have brilliant people around following their philosophy."02:53
Bashing-ommarcoagpinto: Expanded notice - How about we run ^ in the Newsletter, as a request for error checking ? Want to ?03:07
marcoagpintoI don't understand03:08
marcoagpintoahhh... "these days" should be "those days"03:09
Bashing-ommarcoagpinto: Your essay is a fine example of community spirit that could be shared with the community. But in order to do that I must make it somehow "news-worthy" - one way to make it "news-worthy is as a call for the community to follow through with such an act as error checking your team's work.03:13
marcoagpintoI am about to add more paragraphs to the bottom of the text03:14
marcoagpintodone, and fixed "in those days"03:19
marcoagpintowell, most of my time is dedicated to LanguageTool03:20
sarnold.. not .. pepsi?03:21
marcoagpintoyou mean, cola?03:21
marcoagpintoin 24 hours I drunk 6 litres, I am insane, even free from the active life03:22
sarnoldthat's a *lot* of cola wow03:22
marcoagpintoI know :(((03:23
sarnoldmaybe even more than my geometry teacher who had a heart attack at some early age03:23
marcoagpintomum was shouting at dad and at me, so I grabbed a bottle03:23
marcoagpintoahhhh... my thesis... I need to rewrite a subchapter about cellular automata and revise a few other subchapters03:27
marcoagpintoI also have the slides kind of ready03:28
marcoagpintoalso, this is the status of the British Dictionary: https://ibb.co/vkYcJhc03:33
marcoagpintoit comes with Debian based distributions, so it comes with Ubuntu03:33
marcoagpintoI have been checking word by word to spot errors and missing plurals and possessives03:35
sarnoldwhat's the circled things mean?03:39
marcoagpintoit means it is ready03:39
marcoagpintochecked for errors and missing plurals/possessives03:39
marcoagpintoit will take many months to have it ready03:40
marcoagpintoand some words still need to be rechecked since I can't find plurals or the entries in the .dic use prefixes and suffixes, so I can't properly fix them03:41
marcoagpintoI need to code a feature in my tools to extract PFX + SFX words03:41
marcoagpintoI was checking from 'a' to 'z" but Peter (a friend who suggests words) told me to begin with less % words03:42
sarnoldoh my goodness did you really go through *thousands* of words in the dictionaries??03:43
marcoagpintoof course03:43
marcoagpintoI am insane03:43
marcoagpintoand I drink cola03:43
marcoagpintowhat did you expect?03:43
marcoagpintoif one wants to do it hard, there is no other way03:44
marcoagpintoI must check word by word, it will take months, maybe a year, but it will be done03:45
sarnoldyou remind me a bit of the guy who wrote a novel without using the letter 'e'03:48
marcoagpintoit is 4am, I am feeling a bit dizzy, I am leaving to bed... I will return in a few hours... take care03:55
sarnoldgn8 marcoagpinto 03:55
sarnoldboa noite03:55
leftyfbogra: what do you do on your ubuntu core machines when you need to run something that isn't available as a snap?16:04
ograi build a snap for it πŸ˜‰16:05
ravagethat answer was expected somehow :D16:05
leftyfbnope, not worth it for me then :)16:05
ograis is usually less tan 1h work for me 16:05
arraybolt3Why not just run it in LXD?16:05
leftyfbthese days I don't build any new machines without first having an ansible playbook/role for it16:05
ograbut most things i use on the pi's are already packaged 16:06
arraybolt3Or a chroot.16:06
ograbecause then i need to still maintain the OS 16:06
ograUbuntuCore is zero-touch 16:06
arraybolt3You have to still maintain your snaps anyway.16:06
ograonce installed you dont need to care anymore 16:06
leftyfbI have a playbook that upgrades all of my machines at once :)16:06
ograi dont care πŸ˜›16:06
arraybolt3And snaps can't auto-update when they're running, so don't you still have to fiddle with restarts of stuff?16:06
ogramy machines upgrade themselves16:06
* arraybolt3 wonders what's up with the Firefox snap then16:07
ograsnaps dont auto-upgrade on the desktop ...16:07
ograthats a special feature, not used on core16:07
arraybolt3So... hmm. Does Ubuntu Core still come with a Bash prompt that you can do stuff in for fiddling and setup?16:07
ograelse you'd have turbines on nuclear power plants go stuck or medical devices turn off or some such ... you dont want that πŸ™‚16:08
leftyfbexcept it with complain to you till it's blue in the face that it WANTS to16:08
ograthe reference images do have ssh and user account access16:08
arraybolt3Hmm. Cool, I may look into it.16:08
ogratypical commercial devices do not use that tough 16:08
ograi.e. the above turbine πŸ™‚16:09
ograor the medical devices16:09
* arraybolt3 finishes updating the 500 MB or so of packages my Lunar machine just had to download - good grief, updates come fast on the alpha releases!16:09
ograyeah ...16:09
ravagelxd 5.9-4e4cdc6 from Canonicalβœ“ refreshed16:10
ravageas long as there is no desktop involved all is great :D16:11
arraybolt3So does Ubuntu Core hotpatch the kernel too, or does it need reboots every so often like most stuff?16:11
ravageits a snap :D16:11
leftyfbravage: I've told this story a few times. The lxd snap upgraded itself on all of our customer ubuntu servers and broke all of them with a bad version of the snap16:12
arraybolt3ravage: Well, obviously the *package* will autoupdate, even the desktop does that. I mean, does it have something like livepatch for the kernel or do you have to reboot for the new code to take effect?16:12
ograleftyfb, just put it on infinite hold then πŸ˜‰16:12
ravageyou have to ask ogra but i dont think they live patch anything16:12
leftyfbogra: yeah, 3 years after the problem happened. Thanks :)16:12
arraybolt3So it's not really zero-touch! just kidding, it still sounds handy.16:12
ograno, no livepatch in kernel snaps ... 16:12
arraybolt3And you could probably set it to auto-reboot too.16:13
leftyfbogra: I did hack in my own "hold" soon after though16:13
ograit auto-reboots after upgrade 16:13
ravagebeen updating lxd for the last year or so. all good.16:13
ograleftyfb, soon after last week ? it is brand new 16:13
leftyfbogra: I mean soon after we ran into the issue a few years ago16:13
ograwell, we finally have a "hold forever" option now16:13
ograso it becomes all manual 16:14
leftyfbI install the lxd snap from a downloaded .snap and .assert file and then kill off the snapd service16:14
ograyeah, no need for that anymore16:14
leftyfbjust in time for us to move to ESXi over lxd16:15
arraybolt3yuxk, vmware?16:16
arraybolt3I mean if it works, great, but... why not use something not so expensive like KVM?16:17
leftyfbname another on-prem hypervisor that does HA without a ton of additional infra?16:17
ograjust "sudo snap refresh --hold lxd" will now make it stop updating on its own16:17
ravageis that already on a stable release?16:17
arraybolt3leftyfb: Well how does VMware do HA anyway? I mean it just means that the system is really stable, right?16:18
arraybolt3I don't know a wohle lot about this, so I could be wrong.16:18
leftyfbarraybolt3: seamless failover16:18
ograravage, hmm, might be 2.58 stuff ... not 100% sure16:18
arraybolt3If you mean stuff like failover and the like, isn't that something that libvirt can do?16:18
arraybolt3Plus there's Openstack.16:18
ravagemy help output does not show it yet16:18
leftyfbarraybolt3: not without additional and more complicated infra tacked on top16:19
leftyfbarraybolt3: openstack is way overkill for our needs16:19
leftyfbthis is for 6 or 7 vm's where we need HA across a couple bare metal servers16:19
leftyfbhere's the other requirement, it'll be managed by our IT department which is all Windows-y16:20
leftyfbso yeah, no kvm or OS :)16:21
arraybolt3Openstack can run Windows it looks like.16:22
arraybolt3I dunno, you probably know what you're doing a lot better than I do, but using a less powerful proprietary tool when there's a more powerful FOSS one just sounds... awful. :P16:23
ravagewhy the hell do phpstorm and skype still use core18. will have to keep it then i guess :P16:25
ograpoke the packagers about it πŸ˜‰16:26
* ravage pokes M$. im sure they will act asap16:35
enigma9o7would it mess up some back compatability?16:35
murmelleftyfb: what about xcp-ng?17:51
arraybolt3That looks pretty handy.17:58
sarnoldI hear good things about xcp-ng, other folks I know like proxmox..18:28
murmelyeah but in an enterprise environment I quite like xcp-ng way more than proxmox. idk why, but proxmox has for me quite a lot of stuff which could be improved upon18:31
arraybolt3murmel: Uploading a new debhelper to -backports would affect the workflows of people who can upload to -updates. -proposed is not enabled by default, should *never* be enabled by default except in very rare circumstances, and is kind of allowed to be a "controlled fire", so to speak. -backports, on the other hand, is enabled by default and should be kept pristine lest people's systems get18:44
arraybolt3wrecked. If I upload debhelper to -backports and it messes up another dev's ability to build some particular package that he was working on... let's just say that would end poorly for just about everyone.18:44
arraybolt3(-proposed is where packages go to be tested and eventually migrate to -updates or -release. It can never be guaranteed to be safe.)18:45
murmelarraybolt3: honestly, why even offer -backports then, if it should be kept *pristine* (as you say it)18:47
murmelI mean I guess ubuntu always had way fewer backports than debian, but that _does_ sound weird18:48
arraybolt3I dunno. If it were disabled by default, it would make sense, but as it's enabled by default, I'm not entirely sure how one would use it safely. One assumes those with more experience than myself know what they would use it for.18:49
murmelarraybolt3: and I find it quite "astonishing" that -proposed is not pinned down. and very sure that it's not nice to upgrade everything when running apt/update-manager18:51
murmelI would debate also removing the -proposed thing out of software-properties18:51
arraybolt3murmel: Well think of it this way. Sometimes people have to work on an entire set of related packages.18:51
arraybolt3murmel: But Launchpad can't ensure they all build at exactly the same time, so instead, they build as they are able to, and are put in a staging area until they're all ready.18:51
arraybolt3Sometimes people may need to test stuff in the staging area to make sure it works right.18:52
arraybolt3That staging area is -proposed.18:52
arraybolt3Without -proposed, updating would me much riskier in Ubuntu as an update might only be half-ready and already be shippnig out to users.18:52
arraybolt3And if we kept -proposed stable, then we'd have to have -proposed-proposed as a staging area. :P18:52
murmelarraybolt3: yes, but that are people who understand -proposed, not people who just want "latest" and don't understand what it implies18:53
murmelarraybolt3: I was more talking about the switch in software-properties than the actual repo being pinned18:53
arraybolt3I personally use the pre-released updates checkbox every so often for testing stuff.18:53
murmeland I would still debate that a pinned -proposed still makes more sense18:53
arraybolt3(Not on my main computer though!)18:53
arraybolt3leftyfb: I *think* we're probably dealing with a troll. Or a "windows is better" person.19:14
leftyfbarraybolt3: he's always had an attitude. Nothing new19:15
=== tomreyn_ is now known as tomreyn
=== pizzaiolo is now known as pizza

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