[02:40] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[02:51] <marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: good morning at 3am
[02:51] <marcoagpinto> :)
[02:51] <lotuspsychje> o/
[02:51] <marcoagpinto> I am working on open-source
[02:52] <lotuspsychje> hey, me too!
[02:52] <marcoagpinto> now that I am retired I can dedicate more time to it
[02:52] <marcoagpinto> :)
[02:53] <marcoagpinto> look what I have written about it: https://proofingtoolgui.org/getting_involved.html
[02:53] <marcoagpinto> :)
[02:53] <marcoagpinto> "Open-source software is becoming as good or better than commercial one, since we have the best/most dedicated team around. Some visionaries traced the path of humankind regarding free software decades ago. Indeed, “there were giants in these days (…) and their footsteps can still be felt (…)”, and today we still have brilliant people around following their philosophy."
[03:07] <Bashing-om> marcoagpinto: Expanded notice - How about we run ^ in the Newsletter, as a request for error checking ? Want to ?
[03:08] <marcoagpinto> what?
[03:08] <marcoagpinto> I don't understand
[03:08] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:09] <marcoagpinto> ahhh... "these days" should be "those days"
[03:09] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:13] <Bashing-om> marcoagpinto: Your essay is a fine example of community spirit that could be shared with the community. But in order to do that I must make it somehow "news-worthy" - one way to make it "news-worthy is as a call for the community to follow through with such an act as error checking your team's work.
[03:14] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:14] <marcoagpinto> I am about to add more paragraphs to the bottom of the text
[03:19] <marcoagpinto> done, and fixed "in those days"
[03:20] <marcoagpinto> well, most of my time is dedicated to LanguageTool
[03:20] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:21] <sarnold> .. not .. pepsi?
[03:21] <marcoagpinto> you mean, cola?
[03:21] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:22] <sarnold> yeah!
[03:22] <marcoagpinto> in 24 hours I drunk 6 litres, I am insane, even free from the active life
[03:22] <marcoagpinto> drank*
[03:22] <sarnold> that's a *lot* of cola wow
[03:23] <marcoagpinto> I know :(((
[03:23] <sarnold> maybe even more than my geometry teacher who had a heart attack at some early age
[03:23] <marcoagpinto> mum was shouting at dad and at me, so I grabbed a bottle
[03:27] <marcoagpinto> ahhhh... my thesis... I need to rewrite a subchapter about cellular automata and revise a few other subchapters
[03:28] <sarnold> oooo
[03:28] <marcoagpinto> I also have the slides kind of ready
[03:33] <marcoagpinto> also, this is the status of the British Dictionary: https://ibb.co/vkYcJhc
[03:33] <marcoagpinto> it comes with Debian based distributions, so it comes with Ubuntu
[03:33] <marcoagpinto> (LibreOffice)
[03:35] <marcoagpinto> I have been checking word by word to spot errors and missing plurals and possessives
[03:39] <sarnold> what's the circled things mean?
[03:39] <marcoagpinto> it means it is ready
[03:39] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:39] <marcoagpinto> checked for errors and missing plurals/possessives
[03:40] <marcoagpinto> it will take many months to have it ready
[03:41] <marcoagpinto> and some words still need to be rechecked since I can't find plurals or the entries in the .dic use prefixes and suffixes, so I can't properly fix them
[03:41] <marcoagpinto> I need to code a feature in my tools to extract PFX + SFX words
[03:41] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:41] <marcoagpinto> tool*
[03:42] <marcoagpinto> I was checking from 'a' to 'z" but Peter (a friend who suggests words) told me to begin with less % words
[03:43] <sarnold> oh my goodness did you really go through *thousands* of words in the dictionaries??
[03:43] <marcoagpinto> of course
[03:43] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:43] <marcoagpinto> I am insane
[03:43] <marcoagpinto> and I drink cola
[03:43] <marcoagpinto> what did you expect?
[03:44] <sarnold> lol
[03:44] <marcoagpinto> if one wants to do it hard, there is no other way
[03:45] <marcoagpinto> I must check word by word, it will take months, maybe a year, but it will be done
[03:45] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:48] <sarnold> you remind me a bit of the guy who wrote a novel without using the letter 'e'
[03:55] <marcoagpinto> it is 4am, I am feeling a bit dizzy, I am leaving to bed... I will return in a few hours... take care
[03:55] <sarnold> gn8 marcoagpinto 
[03:55] <sarnold> boa noite
[03:55] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:55] <marcoagpinto> thanks
[16:04] <leftyfb> ogra: what do you do on your ubuntu core machines when you need to run something that isn't available as a snap?
[16:05] <ogra> i build a snap for it 😉
[16:05] <ravage> that answer was expected somehow :D
[16:05] <leftyfb> nope, not worth it for me then :)
[16:05] <ogra> is is usually less tan 1h work for me 
[16:05] <ogra> *than
[16:05] <arraybolt3> Why not just run it in LXD?
[16:05] <leftyfb> these days I don't build any new machines without first having an ansible playbook/role for it
[16:06] <ogra> but most things i use on the pi's are already packaged 
[16:06] <arraybolt3> Or a chroot.
[16:06] <ogra> because then i need to still maintain the OS 
[16:06] <ogra> UbuntuCore is zero-touch 
[16:06] <arraybolt3> You have to still maintain your snaps anyway.
[16:06] <ogra> once installed you dont need to care anymore 
[16:06] <leftyfb> I have a playbook that upgrades all of my machines at once :)
[16:06] <ogra> i dont care 😛
[16:06] <arraybolt3> And snaps can't auto-update when they're running, so don't you still have to fiddle with restarts of stuff?
[16:06] <ogra> my machines upgrade themselves
[16:07] <ogra> no
[16:07]  * arraybolt3 wonders what's up with the Firefox snap then
[16:07] <ogra> snaps dont auto-upgrade on the desktop ...
[16:07] <arraybolt3> Oh.
[16:07] <ogra> thats a special feature, not used on core
[16:07] <arraybolt3> So... hmm. Does Ubuntu Core still come with a Bash prompt that you can do stuff in for fiddling and setup?
[16:08] <ogra> else you'd have turbines on nuclear power plants go stuck or medical devices turn off or some such ... you dont want that 🙂
[16:08] <leftyfb> except it with complain to you till it's blue in the face that it WANTS to
[16:08] <ogra> the reference images do have ssh and user account access
[16:08] <arraybolt3> Hmm. Cool, I may look into it.
[16:08] <ogra> typical commercial devices do not use that tough 
[16:09] <ogra> i.e. the above turbine 🙂
[16:09] <ogra> or the medical devices
[16:09]  * arraybolt3 finishes updating the 500 MB or so of packages my Lunar machine just had to download - good grief, updates come fast on the alpha releases!
[16:09] <ogra> yeah ...
[16:10] <ravage> lxd 5.9-4e4cdc6 from Canonical✓ refreshed
[16:11] <ravage> as long as there is no desktop involved all is great :D
[16:11] <ogra> yep
[16:11] <arraybolt3> So does Ubuntu Core hotpatch the kernel too, or does it need reboots every so often like most stuff?
[16:11] <ravage> its a snap :D
[16:12] <leftyfb> ravage: I've told this story a few times. The lxd snap upgraded itself on all of our customer ubuntu servers and broke all of them with a bad version of the snap
[16:12] <arraybolt3> ravage: Well, obviously the *package* will autoupdate, even the desktop does that. I mean, does it have something like livepatch for the kernel or do you have to reboot for the new code to take effect?
[16:12] <ogra> leftyfb, just put it on infinite hold then 😉
[16:12] <ravage> you have to ask ogra but i dont think they live patch anything
[16:12] <leftyfb> ogra: yeah, 3 years after the problem happened. Thanks :)
[16:12] <arraybolt3> So it's not really zero-touch! just kidding, it still sounds handy.
[16:12] <ogra> no, no livepatch in kernel snaps ... 
[16:13] <arraybolt3> And you could probably set it to auto-reboot too.
[16:13] <leftyfb> ogra: I did hack in my own "hold" soon after though
[16:13] <ogra> it auto-reboots after upgrade 
[16:13] <ravage> been updating lxd for the last year or so. all good.
[16:13] <ogra> leftyfb, soon after last week ? it is brand new 
[16:13] <leftyfb> ogra: I mean soon after we ran into the issue a few years ago
[16:13] <ogra> ah
[16:13] <ogra> well, we finally have a "hold forever" option now
[16:14] <ogra> so it becomes all manual 
[16:14] <leftyfb> I install the lxd snap from a downloaded .snap and .assert file and then kill off the snapd service
[16:14] <ogra> yeah, no need for that anymore
[16:15] <leftyfb> just in time for us to move to ESXi over lxd
[16:16] <arraybolt3> yuxk, vmware?
[16:16] <arraybolt3> *yuck
[16:17] <arraybolt3> I mean if it works, great, but... why not use something not so expensive like KVM?
[16:17] <leftyfb> name another on-prem hypervisor that does HA without a ton of additional infra?
[16:17] <ogra> just "sudo snap refresh --hold lxd" will now make it stop updating on its own
[16:17] <ravage> is that already on a stable release?
[16:18] <arraybolt3> leftyfb: Well how does VMware do HA anyway? I mean it just means that the system is really stable, right?
[16:18] <arraybolt3> I don't know a wohle lot about this, so I could be wrong.
[16:18] <leftyfb> arraybolt3: seamless failover
[16:18] <ogra> ravage, hmm, might be 2.58 stuff ... not 100% sure
[16:18] <arraybolt3> If you mean stuff like failover and the like, isn't that something that libvirt can do?
[16:18] <arraybolt3> Plus there's Openstack.
[16:18] <ravage> my help output does not show it yet
[16:19] <leftyfb> arraybolt3: not without additional and more complicated infra tacked on top
[16:19] <leftyfb> arraybolt3: openstack is way overkill for our needs
[16:19] <leftyfb> this is for 6 or 7 vm's where we need HA across a couple bare metal servers
[16:20] <leftyfb> here's the other requirement, it'll be managed by our IT department which is all Windows-y
[16:21] <leftyfb> so yeah, no kvm or OS :)
[16:22] <arraybolt3> Openstack can run Windows it looks like.
[16:23] <arraybolt3> I dunno, you probably know what you're doing a lot better than I do, but using a less powerful proprietary tool when there's a more powerful FOSS one just sounds... awful. :P
[16:25] <ravage> why the hell do phpstorm and skype still use core18. will have to keep it then i guess :P
[16:26] <ogra> poke the packagers about it 😉
[16:35]  * ravage pokes M$. im sure they will act asap
[16:35] <enigma9o7> would it mess up some back compatability?
[17:51] <murmel> leftyfb: what about xcp-ng?
[17:58] <arraybolt3> That looks pretty handy.
[18:28] <sarnold> I hear good things about xcp-ng, other folks I know like proxmox..
[18:31] <murmel> yeah but in an enterprise environment I quite like xcp-ng way more than proxmox. idk why, but proxmox has for me quite a lot of stuff which could be improved upon
[18:44] <arraybolt3> murmel: Uploading a new debhelper to -backports would affect the workflows of people who can upload to -updates. -proposed is not enabled by default, should *never* be enabled by default except in very rare circumstances, and is kind of allowed to be a "controlled fire", so to speak. -backports, on the other hand, is enabled by default and should be kept pristine lest people's systems get
[18:44] <arraybolt3> wrecked. If I upload debhelper to -backports and it messes up another dev's ability to build some particular package that he was working on... let's just say that would end poorly for just about everyone.
[18:45] <arraybolt3> (-proposed is where packages go to be tested and eventually migrate to -updates or -release. It can never be guaranteed to be safe.)
[18:47] <murmel> arraybolt3: honestly, why even offer -backports then, if it should be kept *pristine* (as you say it)
[18:48] <murmel> I mean I guess ubuntu always had way fewer backports than debian, but that _does_ sound weird
[18:49] <arraybolt3> I dunno. If it were disabled by default, it would make sense, but as it's enabled by default, I'm not entirely sure how one would use it safely. One assumes those with more experience than myself know what they would use it for.
[18:51] <murmel> arraybolt3: and I find it quite "astonishing" that -proposed is not pinned down. and very sure that it's not nice to upgrade everything when running apt/update-manager
[18:51] <murmel> I would debate also removing the -proposed thing out of software-properties
[18:51] <arraybolt3> murmel: Well think of it this way. Sometimes people have to work on an entire set of related packages.
[18:51] <arraybolt3> murmel: But Launchpad can't ensure they all build at exactly the same time, so instead, they build as they are able to, and are put in a staging area until they're all ready.
[18:52] <arraybolt3> Sometimes people may need to test stuff in the staging area to make sure it works right.
[18:52] <arraybolt3> That staging area is -proposed.
[18:52] <arraybolt3> Without -proposed, updating would me much riskier in Ubuntu as an update might only be half-ready and already be shippnig out to users.
[18:52] <arraybolt3> And if we kept -proposed stable, then we'd have to have -proposed-proposed as a staging area. :P
[18:53] <murmel> arraybolt3: yes, but that are people who understand -proposed, not people who just want "latest" and don't understand what it implies
[18:53] <murmel> arraybolt3: I was more talking about the switch in software-properties than the actual repo being pinned
[18:53] <arraybolt3> I personally use the pre-released updates checkbox every so often for testing stuff.
[18:53] <murmel> and I would still debate that a pinned -proposed still makes more sense
[18:53] <arraybolt3> (Not on my main computer though!)
[19:14] <arraybolt3> leftyfb: I *think* we're probably dealing with a troll. Or a "windows is better" person.
[19:15] <leftyfb> arraybolt3: he's always had an attitude. Nothing new