[15:30] <cpaelzer> o/
[15:31] <sarnold> good morning
[15:31] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[15:31] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:31:37 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:31] <cpaelzer> Ping for MIR meeting - didrocks joalif slyon sarnold cpaelzer jamespage
[15:31] <jamespage> o/
[15:32] <cpaelzer> let us see who is still here and not yet doing a big EOY party
[15:32] <jamespage> not very many?
[15:32]  * cpaelzer puts a reminder to himself about a question seb sent (for AOB)
[15:32] <cpaelzer> seems that way jamespage :-)
[15:33] <cpaelzer> let us hope we also do not have many problems then
[15:33] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[15:33] <cpaelzer> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[15:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[15:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[15:33] <joalif> o/
[15:33] <cpaelzer> hi joalif
[15:33] <cpaelzer> yay, nothing new to handle in there indeed
[15:33] <cpaelzer> all known csaes
[15:33] <cpaelzer> cases
[15:33] <cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
[15:33] <cpaelzer> Mission: ensure to assign all incoming reviews for fast processing
[15:34] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:34] <cpaelzer> a review on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pkgconf/+bug/1998095 is needed
[15:34] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 1998095 in pkgconf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pkgconf, replacement for pkg-config" [Medium, Confirmed]
[15:34] <cpaelzer> seems that slyon posted that foundations will own this
[15:35] <cpaelzer> it is a bit simple in the request
[15:35] <cpaelzer> but then it is replacing what we already have
[15:35] <cpaelzer> and driven by community now accepted by foundations
[15:35] <cpaelzer> so it might be ok to be that small
[15:35] <cpaelzer> I'm struggling to get all my other things done already :-/
[15:35] <cpaelzer> joalif: do you feel you could have a look at that one?
[15:36] <cpaelzer> if not this week then in january?
[15:36] <joalif> in january only, no way this week
[15:36] <cpaelzer> I understand
[15:36] <cpaelzer> january should be fine
[15:36] <joalif> ok then
[15:36] <cpaelzer> neither slyon nor anyone else spoke up to be strictly before EOY
[15:36] <cpaelzer> which we are all in a frenzy to reach
[15:37] <cpaelzer> thank you joalif!
[15:37] <joalif> :)
[15:37] <cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[15:37] <cpaelzer> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[15:37] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:37] <cpaelzer> doktape is the only one with recent updates
[15:38] <cpaelzer> and it is still incomplete, not yet waiting on us
[15:38] <cpaelzer> except if you'd think they do not know the process (to set it to new once ready)
[15:38] <cpaelzer> well, jeremy would know
[15:39] <cpaelzer> the updates are from Amin he is in the desktop team
[15:39] <cpaelzer> so no stranger to not know
[15:39] <cpaelzer> I guess we can wait for this to be              in the proper state or until we are asked about it
[15:39] <cpaelzer> better than starting to review now only to find a bunch of "not ready yet"
[15:39] <cpaelzer> #topic MIR related Security Review Queue
[15:39] <cpaelzer> Mission: Check on progress, do deadlines seem doable?
[15:39] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=%5BMIR%5D&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:39] <cpaelzer> Internal link
[15:40] <cpaelzer> - ensure your teams items are prioritized among each other as you'd expect
[15:40] <cpaelzer> - ensure community requests do not get stomped by teams calling for favors too much
[15:40] <cpaelzer> #link https://warthogs.atlassian.net/jira/software/c/projects/SEC/boards/594
[15:40] <cpaelzer> sarnold: how is progress going on recently?
[15:40] <cpaelzer> sarnold: and how does it look for early 2023?
[15:40] <sarnold> no recent progress, we're on skeleton crew at the moment
[15:40] <sarnold> my most recent conversation with aburrage, I've been told we'll have a few people to work on MIRs and bring this list into something more managable
[15:41] <sarnold> .. in january
[15:41] <cpaelzer> fine, but in january this need to ramp up for real
[15:41] <cpaelzer> my former 2-3 per week will by then be more like 3-5 per week to make it in time
[15:41] <cpaelzer> just to set the expected pace
[15:41] <cpaelzer> ok, no bashing on teams down to skeleton crew level
[15:41] <cpaelzer> going on
[15:42] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[15:42] <cpaelzer> let me fetch that mail by seb ...
[15:42] <joalif> nothing from me
[15:42] <cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liblc3/+bug/1997578
[15:42] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 1997578 in liblc3 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] liblc3" [Undecided, In Progress]
[15:42] <sarnold> this is my last mir team meeting of the year
[15:43] <cpaelzer> sarnold: for all of us
[15:43] <sarnold> \o/
[15:43] <cpaelzer> AFAICS in this bug it misses the seed or packaging change to bring it in right?
[15:44] <sarnold> I think you're right
[15:44] <cpaelzer> thanks for double checking
[15:44] <cpaelzer> updating the bug
[15:45] <cpaelzer> ok, that is it
[15:45] <cpaelzer> I wish you all a wonderful winter time and a happy new year!
[15:45] <sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all; happy new year :D
[15:45] <joalif> have a nice holiday and happy new year all!
[15:45] <cpaelzer> I'll need to be faster in january as sarnold will take so much time to talk about the security reviews that will then be completed each week :-P
[15:45] <cpaelzer> see you all then
[15:45] <sarnold> *nod*
[15:45] <sarnold> hehe
[15:46] <cpaelzer> #endmeeting
[15:46] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 15:46:04 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-12-13-15.31.moin.txt
[15:46] <sarnold> o/
[16:16] <jbicha> yes, the duktape MIR is still being worked on
[20:00] <rbasak> o/
[20:01] <rbasak> vorlon, cyphermox: meeting? I don't see sil2100 here. Or are we skipping?
[20:03] <vorlon> ah hi
[20:03] <vorlon> I'm past EOY at work so wasn't specifically planning to be at the meeting but it turns out I'm at the keyboard ;)
[20:04] <rbasak> There's Erich's "Edubuntu Revival" email.
[20:04] <rbasak> And "Ubuntu Cinnamon for Official Flavor Status"
[20:04] <cyphermox> o/
[20:04] <rbasak> So a bit of TB admin others are waiting on.
[20:04] <rbasak> #startmeeting Technical Board
[20:04] <meetingology> Meeting started at 20:04:59 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[20:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[20:05] <rbasak> #topic Action review
[20:05] <rbasak> ACTION: (everyone) review the Ubuntu Backports Team Charter for ratification
[20:05] <rbasak> Still pending? There was some discussion in the backporters meeting the other day, but they basically punted it, too.
[20:05] <rbasak> ACTION: rbasak to finalize third-party seeded snap security policy
[20:06] <rbasak> I intend to resume this in January, assuming I get re-elected.
[20:06] <rbasak> ACTION: sil2100 to start a draft summarizing the OEM archive portion of the meeting which x-nox and TB will review, edit, and ratify before we move on to figuring out the next step
[20:06] <rbasak> Still pending?
[20:06] <rbasak> ACTION: rbasak to draft a proposal of the DMB-proposed inactivity expiration policy for TB ratification
[20:06] <rbasak> Still pending
[20:06] <rbasak> ACTION: cyphermox to figure out next steps to improve TB processes previously discussed
[20:06] <rbasak> cyphermox: I'm not sure what that refers to?
[20:08] <cyphermox> that was about the launchpad bugs and whatnot
[20:08] <cyphermox> carry please
[20:08] <rbasak> OK thanks
[20:08] <rbasak> Ah right
[20:08] <rbasak> OK so I guess we can just consider all actions carried
[20:09] <rbasak> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
[20:09] <rbasak> I think there are two
[20:09] <rbasak> #subtopic Ubuntu Cinnamon for Official Flavor Status
[20:09] <rbasak> Łukasz said he'd check in with other members of the release team. vorlon did you hear anything?
[20:10] <vorlon> no
[20:10] <rbasak> From my POV, I'm interested to hear what recommendation the release team have on this.
[20:10] <rbasak> vorlon maybe you could opine now?
[20:10] <vorlon> I haven't had a chance to review the application yet; I'm generally in favor but need to check over details to satisfy myself that things are ready
[20:11] <rbasak> OK. How about I reply to the ML with an update for now, and we can continue in the new year.
[20:11] <vorlon> ok
[20:11] <rbasak> #subtopic Edubuntu Revival
[20:11] <Eickmeyer> o/
[20:11] <rbasak> o/
[20:11] <vorlon> I have a lot to say on this one that I haven't had a chance to yet
[20:12] <vorlon> my biggest concern is how edubuntu is going to be defined
[20:12] <rbasak> I have essentially the same question here - I'm very happy to see this proposal, but I think it's mostly up to the release team to find Erich and Amy a point of contact and make a recommendation.
[20:12] <vorlon> the original Edubuntu was an oddball in a lot of ways wrt our flavors, a lot of the work was around LTSP
[20:12] <vorlon> and providing something that would be either a client or server for LTSP
[20:13] <vorlon> I don't imagine that's the intent of the current team, so I would like to see a clearer explanation of the purpose of this as a flavor
[20:13] <vorlon> (that's not something we have in the guidelines for flavors; maybe we should; nevertheless it's a major concern I have)
[20:14] <Eickmeyer> If I may?
[20:14] <vorlon> please
[20:15] <rbasak> The model some of the newest flavors (and proposed flavors) have been following is to have it "done" first, and then making it official. That helps to demonstrate the intent pretty clearly. I wonder if that's possible/practical here?
[20:15] <rbasak> Eickmeyer: indeed - please :)
[20:16] <Eickmeyer> I don't think LTSP is part of the current vision. Amy is from the early childhood background, and envisions having something that preschoolers can have in the classroom without too much administrative overehead.
[20:16] <Eickmeyer> Additionally, Elementary education could benefit from something similar, by having something children could get dirty by coding on.
[20:17] <Eickmeyer> More and more elementary schools, my son's in particular, are getting into coding, and what better than Linux to get them started on?
[20:17] <Eickmeyer> And that continues into secondary as well.
[20:17] <Eickmeyer> The framework is already in the seed and just needs to be honed a little bit and made up-to-date.
[20:18] <vorlon> the previous edubuntu seeds?
[20:18] <Eickmeyer> If LTSP is a thing, it would be secondary.
[20:18] <Eickmeyer> vorlon: Indeed. They're only current as of Bionic.
[20:18] <sil2100> o/
[20:19] <sil2100> Apologies for being late
[20:19] <vorlon> ok.  from my pov this needs to be an ongoing conversation as you dig into the edubuntu seeds and clean them up for what you've identified as the current target (which to me sounds like two: "a selection of installed-by-default software for ECE", "a selection of installed-by-default software for elementary students")
[20:20] <vorlon> and are you going to provide this as installer media with install options for different metapackages, etc
[20:20] <Eickmeyer> vorlon: I'd throw secondary in there as well, and tertiary (college level) is also a seed that produces a meta.
[20:21] <vorlon> ok - that's for you as a team to determine :)
[20:21] <Eickmeyer> vorlon: That's the goal, possibly using the new installer as the framework. If not, then it would do like Ubuntu Studio and install everything, with a remover that removes what the machine doesn't need.
[20:21] <vorlon> but I would like to see that some active curation is being done, rather than it being whatever was current 5 years ago
[20:22] <Eickmeyer> vorlon: Yes, Amy and I have been sitting down and trying to go over some of what existed 5 years ago to determine what is relevant today.
[20:22] <Eickmeyer> She has a degree in this field.
[20:22]  * vorlon nods
[20:22] <sil2100> Just a touch re: the topic that I missed: Ubuntu Cinnamon. I asked internally around the release team but I actually didn't get any reply from anyone besides Utkarsh
[20:22] <Eickmeyer> We might also enlist the help of Aaron Prisk as he has asked if there's anything he can do to help.
[20:22] <sil2100> (who is not formally release team)
[20:23] <vorlon> do you want me to scribble some of this down on the list?
[20:23] <vorlon> sil2100: oh, I don't think I saw you ask :)
[20:23] <utkarsh21021> sil2100: yes, so should I still comment?
[20:24] <sil2100> vorlon: I poked internally on the 30th of November
[20:24] <sil2100> ginggs commented, but he didn't see the e-mail actually
[20:24] <sil2100> Ah, hm, and I think Joshua in the end didn't send it to a non-TB ML
[20:25] <vorlon> the TB ML is open to the public
[20:25] <rbasak> Could we stick with Eickmeyer's topic for now please, as he's here, and then circle back to the other one when done?
[20:25] <sil2100> ACK
[20:25] <rbasak> On Edubuntu, are we clear on what the next steps are yet?
[20:26] <rbasak> I'll take that as a no? :)
[20:26] <vorlon> Eickmeyer: do you need us as TB to sort out any permissions/memberships to unblock you wrt moving forward with work on the seeds?
[20:27] <Eickmeyer> vorlon: We currently need Edubuntu Council to own ~edubuntu-dev on Launchpad to unblock us.
[20:27] <vorlon> "Edubuntu Council" - defined?
[20:27] <vorlon> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council ?
[20:28] <vorlon> per your email yes
[20:28] <Eickmeyer> Yes. Amy and I are now Admins on Edubuntu Council, so that will allow us to own ~edubuntu-dev which unlocks the old repo.
[20:28] <Eickmeyer> Also we need ownership of the seed if possible.
[20:28] <rbasak> It looks like you indirectly own it already?
[20:29] <Eickmeyer> rbasak: edubuntu-dev-owner is owned by the TB.
[20:29] <Eickmeyer> Er, the DMB, for whatever reason.
[20:29] <rbasak> ~edubuntu-dev is owned by edubuntu-dev-owner
[20:29] <vorlon> I'm not clear if standard practice is to have other bodies own these teams as opposed to being administrators of them
[20:29] <rbasak> And ~edubuntu-council is a member of ~edubuntu-dev-owner
[20:30] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, this changed recently then.
[20:30] <rbasak> As well as an admin
[20:30] <vorlon> but in any event, yes, https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev-owner/+members shows edubuntu-council is a member of edubuntu-dev-owner, since 2011
[20:30] <Eickmeyer> Ok, then this looks like a recent change as this was owned by the TB last I checked.
[20:30] <vorlon> since 2011
[20:30] <Eickmeyer> Interesting. Ok, then all that's left is the seed.
[20:30] <vorlon> the owner of edubuntu-dev-owner is not relevant, the membership is
[20:31] <rbasak> ~edubuntu-dev-owner is *owned* by the DMB
[20:31] <vorlon> as for the seed, once you populate the membership of ~edubuntu-dev, you can push the git branch yourselves
[20:31] <rbasak> But it has ~edubuntu-council as a member and administrator, so that should be enough for permissions
[20:32] <Eickmeyer> Excellent. Then I should be able to push to the seed?
[20:32] <vorlon> you can push to a new git branch under ~edubuntu-dev namespace
[20:32] <rbasak> Yeah did you just add yourself?
[20:32] <Eickmeyer> I just added myself.
[20:32] <rbasak> I think that should be sufficient
[20:33] <vorlon> and once that branch exists, tell the release team the URL so we can add it to scripts
[20:33] <Eickmeyer> Will do. Thanks everyone!
[20:33] <Eickmeyer> Anything else you need from me?
[20:34] <rbasak> What does "add it to scripts" mean please?
[20:34] <rbasak> What effect would that have?
[20:34] <sil2100> I'd like clarity on that too
[20:34] <vorlon> rbasak: there's one script, actually owned by ubuntu-archive rather than ubuntu-release, that identifies seeds that get mirrored into the archive to populate Task fields
[20:35] <rbasak> vorlon: is that the same as having official flavour status?
[20:35] <vorlon> rbasak: and there's another script that mirrors the seeds to people.u.c/~ubuntu-archive ... actually also owned by ubuntu-archive... and runs germinate
[20:35] <vorlon> rbasak: not really
[20:35] <sil2100> hm, has edubuntu been discussed with the release team? Since I think we should first do that before we proceed?
[20:35] <rbasak> Like are you considering the flavour to still exist and just being resurrected - will this mean that Edubuntu will now participate?
[20:36] <vorlon> running germinate centrally is a convenience service for developers and doesn't say anything about what's official
[20:36] <rbasak> To be clear I'm not objecting - just trying to understand how this fits in with everything
[20:36] <rbasak> OK
[20:36] <vorlon> this is just mechanics, not policy :)
[20:37] <rbasak> Got it, thanks. Eickmeyer, are you happy with that for now? Is there anything further you require or are expecting?
[20:37] <sil2100> I guess I wouldn't mind that then, as long as the actual flavor existence is still something we want to discuss before proceeding o/
[20:37] <Eickmeyer> rbasak: No, that's all I was expecting for now. Was not seeking complete resurrection just yet, that would be an email for a later time once the necessary packages are back in the repo.
[20:37] <rbasak> Like for example does Eickmeyer need a liason person from the release team nominated?
[20:38] <Eickmeyer> Though, ^ That would be nice to navigate this.
[20:38] <vorlon> is that a thing we do?
[20:38] <rbasak> That was my proposal when clearing up the "new flavour process". I thought we had general agreement on that.
[20:38] <sil2100> I think this will happen after the release team discusses the participation first
[20:39] <rbasak> But I haven't finished updating the draft and announcing the changes yet.
[20:39] <vorlon> right, I didn't recall this detail
[20:39] <sil2100> I'd say we first need to say "yes/no/maybe" and then assign somenone
[20:39] <sil2100> s/none/one/
[20:39] <Eickmeyer> Happy to be the guinea pig for that.
[20:39] <rbasak> I'd like to be clear on where we stand wrt. to that.
[20:40] <rbasak> Either we're "not yet, need <X>" (eg. a clearer definition/description that vorlon asked above), or "no because <Y>" (seems unlikely), or "yes and your liason person is <Z>".
[20:40] <rbasak> Which of those are we at right now?
[20:40] <sil2100> I'd say first option
[20:41] <rbasak> OK, so an action for Erich and Amy then to complete that, and get back to us?
[20:41] <rbasak> vorlon, could you perhaps reply to the ML thread to explain exactly what you want wrt. that?
[20:41] <vorlon> yes
[20:41] <sil2100> Yes, I think this definition clarification would also be useful for the release team to make a decision
[20:41] <rbasak> Thanks!
[20:42] <rbasak> #action vorlon to reply to the Edubuntu ML thread with a description of what we need from Erich before we can proceed.
[20:42] <meetingology> ACTION: vorlon to reply to the Edubuntu ML thread with a description of what we need from Erich before we can proceed.
[20:42] <rbasak> Thanks I think that's clear now. Eickmeyer: are you good with that?
[20:43] <Eickmeyer> Yes, that seems perfectly reasonable. I'll go ahead and explain in the ML thread what I explained here so that there's a paper trail for the release team to follow, if I understand the purpose.
[20:43] <rbasak> That sound great. Thank you all for your patience. I just wanted to make sure everyone was completely clear and agreed on what was expected next.
[20:44] <rbasak> Let's go back to Cinammon then.
[20:44] <rbasak> #subtopic Ubuntu Cinnamon for Official Flavor Status
[20:44] <rbasak> From the earlier discussion it sounds like the release team need to figure out an answer between themselves.
[20:44] <sil2100> o/
[20:45] <sil2100> Yeah, hm, could you add an action item for me for this? Since I asked once but didn't follow up on that
[20:45] <rbasak> Which is fine, especially it being the vacation period now, I think it's OK for it to take us through to January.
[20:45] <rbasak> Yes please.
[20:45] <sil2100> I guess I need to poke people again
[20:45] <sil2100> Apologies, dropped the ball on that one
[20:45] <rbasak> #action sil2100 to follow up with the release team to establish consensus on Joshua's official flavour status for Cinammon.
[20:45] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to follow up with the release team to establish consensus on Joshua's official flavour status for Cinammon.
[20:45] <rbasak> Cinnamon?
[20:46] <rbasak> Anyway, yeah, thanks. I'd like to hear from the release team on their opinion - I don't really have one yet, apart from being keen to see this get through.
[20:46] <rbasak> Any further discussion on Cinnammon?
[20:47] <rbasak> Anything else on the ML that we need to discuss?
[20:47] <rbasak> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
[20:47] <rbasak> #info No open bugs
[20:48] <rbasak> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (next from https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members)
[20:48] <rbasak> The next meeting would be on 27/12. I propose that we skip it due to the vacation. Any objection?
[20:48] <vorlon> no objection
[20:48] <rbasak> That means that I can't really select a chair since the following meeting would be with the new board.
[20:48] <cyphermox> nope. I will not be near a computer that day
[20:49] <rbasak> #agreed We will skip the meeting on 27/12.
[20:49] <meetingology> AGREED: We will skip the meeting on 27/12.
[20:49] <rbasak> #info The next chair will depend on the new board.
[20:49] <rbasak> #topic AOB
[20:49] <rbasak> AOB?
[20:50] <rbasak> #endmeeting
[20:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 20:50:00 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-12-13-20.04.moin.txt
[20:50] <rbasak> Thanks all!
[20:50] <vorlon> thanks!
[20:50] <sil2100> Thanks o/