[04:29] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[08:41] <wez> Good evening lotuspsychje!
[08:42]  * wez cracks open a proper AU pale ale fermented in the bottle and hands it to lotuspsychje 
[11:53] <guiverc_qa> .
[11:54] <guiverc_qa> .
[11:55] <guiverc_qa> .
[11:55] <guiverc_qa> .
[11:58] <wez> hi guiverc_qa 
[12:00] <guiverc> G'day wez 
[12:01] <wez> G'day good sir
[12:01] <wez> or maam
[12:01] <wez> or non-binary
[12:01] <guiverc> :)
[12:01] <wez> How are you?
[12:02]  * wez needs to stop using personal pronouns
[12:03] <guiverc> tired & was unable to create the bug I was looking for using Ubuntu Desktop (good in one way anyway) that we have currently with Lubuntu lunar  ("." was to create noise on the irc client;..)...  I maybe should have connected to -offtopic
[12:03]  * guiverc normally pings myself via PM; but boxes where in different rooms
[21:41] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue767 now available to our reading public: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue767 :D
[21:44] <cartdrige> pipewire doesn't sound as cool as pulseaudio.
[21:44] <cartdrige> we can't tell it has to do with the audio by its name.
[21:44] <cartdrige> (fart)
[21:46] <JanC> what about PolypAudio ?
[21:59] <Eickmeyer> Pipewire also handles some video subsystems, so it's not just for audio.
[22:07] <Eickmeyer> Bashing-om: Just some points of correction: I'm fairly certain all of those meetings for the rest of December were cancelled. I know for a fact the TB meeting was, and since Canonical is on break until Jan 3, I'd suspect Foundations and Desktop Indaba are as well.
[22:08] <Eickmeyer> (Indaba was done earlier this month)
[22:10] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: No one told us ! We go by what gets posted on various calendars :( .. and yeah will make the Pipe-wire correction. Thanks heaps !
[22:10] <Eickmeyer> Bashing-om: Yeah, hardly anyone has access to Fridge, so that kinda gets forgotten.
[22:12] <Eickmeyer> And as far as Pipewire goes, the video stuff only really gets taken advantage of when using Wayland as the compositor.
[22:12] <Bashing-om> guiverc[m]: ^^ Pull from the Fridge ? I do to the WIKI and the Forums ?
[22:13] <Eickmeyer> FWIW, the TB didn't update their wiki page.
[22:13] <Eickmeyer> But their latest meeting notes they did decide to cancel the last meeting of the year.
[22:14] <Eickmeyer> And I just happen to know that Canonical is on break.
[22:15] <guiverc> For me to pull anything from the fridge; I'd need a request on ML OR in #ubuntu-news (#ubuntu-community-team or somewhere appropriate), and by someone associated with group.. ie. mostly traceable & understandable reason why it was done.
[22:15] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: Jose has access.
[22:15] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: Sp for Meeting - I can report "None as Canonical is on seasonal break" ?
[22:16] <Bashing-om> sp/so*
[22:16] <Eickmeyer> Bashing-om: Yeah I would say that's a safe bet.
[22:17]  * Eickmeyer should probably join the news team as he knows way too much 😅
[22:17] <guiverc> if the tb boards notes say as you do Eickmeyer, provide link & request I remove link in calendar #ubuntu-news etc & I will
[22:17] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: I'll get the notes.
[22:18]  * guiverc means just one room, the etc. was intended for a relevant room & need not be #ubuntu-news.
[22:18] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-12-13-20.04.moin.txt very end
[22:19]  * Eickmeyer was in that meeting as there was a discussion about Edubuntu
[22:20] <Eickmeyer> Long story short: project moving forward
[22:21] <guiverc> can you please provide request (& link) in #ubuntu-news ; it's where prior requests have been made/actioned
[22:21] <guiverc> but the Edubuntu is really great news :)
[22:22] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: Yeah - I keep an eye our for what is taking place for the Edubuntu release :D
[22:24] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: Done
[22:24] <guiverc> the 'request removal from fridge calendar' please.  (sorry to be a pain; I want a clear record)
[22:24] <Eickmeyer> Ohhhhh ok.
[22:25] <guiverc> otherwise it'll read like you're reporting 'news' to us...
[22:27] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: Better? 😅
[22:28] <guiverc> thanks :)
[22:28] <Eickmeyer> yw. :)
[22:29]  * guiverc irc is different without my usual sound effects (pipewire issue on lubuntu)
[22:30] <Eickmeyer> Strange. pipewire-pulse should just act like a drop-in replacement. I've been testing on Studio and it seems to be working fine, even with the pipewire-jack backend.
[22:31] <guiverc> i have music playing using clementine; hexchat (my irc client) is silent.. arraybolt3 noted the same with thunderbird notifications; we've not created a bug report on it yet, BUT couldn't replicate the issue with Ubuntu Desktop (lunar)
[22:36] <Eickmeyer> Very strange indeed.
[22:36] <Eickmeyer> Makes me wonder if it's something wrong with the LXQt audio stack.
[22:39] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: Van nit make the Pipewire edits for video or Wayland as the original quthor we are reporting on does not memtion them. I can ping arraybolt3[m] and see of he will edit his article ?
[22:39] <Bashing-om> can not make**
[22:39] <Eickmeyer> Bashing-om: I wouldn't worry about it since Lubuntu's implementation doesn't include Wayland.
[22:39] <arraybolt3> +1
[22:40] <arraybolt3> I don't know how PipeWire affects video on Lubuntu.
[22:40] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: I could explain it, but TL;DR: It doesn't.
[22:40] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: Nor yet does Xubuntu support Wayland.
[22:40] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: As our local A/V on Linux guy, that's good enough for me.
[22:41] <Eickmeyer> Exactly, Bashing-om .
[22:41] <arraybolt3> (I mean you're our local A/V on Linux guy.)
[22:41] <Eickmeyer> I mean, I kinda default to that. 😅
[22:42] <Eickmeyer> Pipewire shines with the video stack when doing video capture, such as on a Google Meet conference.
[22:43] <Bashing-om> All: Leeping in mind guys that UWN is what we, as a community, present to the world - we do strive to make as good a presentation as possible :D
[22:43] <Eickmeyer> X11 does that natively, but Wayland needs the extra subsystem, hence Pipewire.
[22:44] <Eickmeyer> Bashing-om: No doubt! You're all doing a great job!
 CPU is Intel i7 -8650U x 8 (ubuntu 18.04.6 says) and memory is 16 GB
 gry: if I boot 22.10 or 22.04 from a live USB, sometimes it won't make it to the live desktop... or if it does, little after it will freeze... therefore, I would not be able to install those?
[23:17] <gry> like 'what the ...' -- these specs are plenty enough, right?
[23:25] <daftykins> what does the media check say? weird to pick such an old release
[23:31] <gry> daftykins: what is a media check
[23:31] <gry> they tried to boot live cd and they say it was freezing randomly as described above
[23:32] <daftykins> oh yeah it came in after 18.04 anyway, duh - well the newer ones check themselves and report errors eh
[23:34] <arraybolt3> gry: I think a "media check" is when you use sha256sum on the ISO and make sure its hash matches the one in the corresponding SHA256SUMS file.
[23:34] <daftykins> no
[23:41] <Eickmeyer> The check when the .iso image initially boots is a bit more thorough than the sha256sum, and apport can check to see if the user had let it run or skipped it, which really helps on bug reports.
[23:42] <daftykins> it should definitely have been implemented as a menu option though
[23:42] <Eickmeyer> no
[23:42] <daftykins> it could be the default but having had an additional entry with skipping the check would have made more sense
[23:43] <daftykins> i've been in situations with remote console virtual mounting (Dell iDRAC / HP iLO) where it'd take hours to disc check a downloaded ISO due to a slow network link
[23:43] <Eickmeyer> No. Seeing that they skipped it is the difference between a valid and invalid bug report.
[23:43] <Eickmeyer> Can't tell whether or not their media was any good.
[23:44] <daftykins> i'm not talking about your comment regarding bug reports, i'm saying that in my opinion the feature should have been implemented as a choice
[23:45] <daftykins> i understand your view but you can't say 'no' to my opinion over choice, also if i filed a bug and you shouted at me for not testing media and used it as an excuse not to pursue a bug it would be not be great :)
[23:45] <gry> i think if it's a bug, it's either their usb or their hardware
[23:45] <daftykins> -be
[23:46] <gry> if it's a graphics problem, i'd rather shoot myself than debug it; i'd prefert to shove the hardware into a bin and get a new one over debugging graphics problems
[23:46] <gry> because graphics problems are a pain
[23:46] <daftykins> so hash the download, re-check the media creation, boot with nomodeset, check firmware is latest, all the usual basics
[23:46] <Eickmeyer> daftykins:  I don't see you helping with Ubuntu development and only being argumentative with those in here that are, and seeing as how Ubuntu is a meritocracy, you don't have much leg to stand on.
[23:46] <gry> boot with nomodeset - maybe good idea
[23:47] <daftykins> wow i only expressed an opinion on the feature and now you're trying to make it personal? this is extremely unwelcome Eickmeyer 
[23:47] <Eickmeyer> daftykins: I've been watching you be unwelcome to others in here, so that's what's set me off.
[23:48] <gry> re booting with nomodeset - is there a good docs page about how to do it
[23:48] <daftykins> !nomodeset
[23:48] <daftykins> well, regardless of your feeling at unconnected other times, you've essentially harmed your own position by claiming i have to be a dev to have an opinion
[23:49] <Eickmeyer> daftykins: No, I'm saying if you want to see change, start helping.
[23:49] <Eickmeyer> I, on the other hand, benefit from that feature.
[23:49] <daftykins> are you aware i gave over 10 years of support in main?
[23:49] <gry> hey, i didn't see either of you two being rude to one another - then Eickmeyer said daftykins is not being super helpful
[23:49] <gry> why
[23:49] <gry> i'm not a dev either...
[23:49] <Eickmeyer> gry: Support is in #ubuntu.
[23:49] <gry> not of the OS, at least
[23:50] <gry> i develop some apps, contribute bug reports etc
[23:50] <daftykins> gry is asking how to help another user, that constitutes discussion to my mind
[23:50] <Eickmeyer> Ok, fair.
[23:50] <gry> i think it's fine to discuss here how to help users in #ubuntu
[23:50] <Eickmeyer> gry: Sorry, I thought you were asking for help.
[23:51] <gry> that user is super creative too, they create one problem on top of another :o) no worries
[23:51] <daftykins> too busy attacking me it would seem
[23:51] <Eickmeyer> daftykins: Providing help and support is one thing, but influencing the development of the OS is another.
[23:52] <gry> i'd influence development of the OS, but it's such niche changes that theyd not make it to the official .iso
[23:53] <gry> they'd break things normal users would want to work
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> gry: Exactly. The decisions that go into things have to be less about personal opinion and more about what would be generally acceptable and work toward a greater good.
[23:55] <gry> i mean you know stallman; the changes that i'd make (and the way i'm using the OS myself every day) are like a 10x amplified version of what stallman says
[23:56] <daftykins> i think you're failing to be objective on this one, it's still possible to skip the checks using a boot parameter... so implementing it as a menu option for those that just want to get on with something if their media access is slow (in the use-case i described) is hardly a world-ending one
[23:56] <gry> to the point that even them dont consider my changes necessary
[23:56] <gry> though i think it's not necessary for everyone in here to contribute to the generally acceptable good
[23:56] <gry> everyone does what they wish to do, be it within one app or the OS, or only chat help and thats it
[23:58] <Eickmeyer> daftykins: You might be right. As someone who leads an official flavor of Ubuntu, I want to make 100% sure that what they have downloaded, and then written to their installation medium, is exactly correct at any cost, even the 10 seconds it takes to check it.
[23:58] <daftykins> yeah i can absolutely see how annoying it would be to have someone report a bug that was down to their own bad media
[23:59] <gry> as long as it says what it is doing (wait ... checking media / iso integrity / whatever ...) rather than being stuck without any message, i'd not complain
[23:59] <Eickmeyer> Exactly. So, if the installer crashes since it couldn't copy a file because the media was bad, and I can see that it had not only a "skip" on the check and a hash mismatch on the file, that tells me with 100% certainty that they have bad media.