[16:34] I think the XScreenSaver file is finally ready. There was one more button that wasn't working that works now (the Documentation button in the settings dialogs for individual screensavers), and I also have GLMatrix set as the default screensaver. [16:36] Pretty much everything works now. The only complaint I still have is that when you press the Documentation button, the text from "man" seems to be stuck in 80-column mode, so it doesn't fill out the whole QTerminal popup window (or sometimes it doesn't quite fit and ends up looking weird). But I don't know if that ever worked right, and I currently don't see a way to fix it. So I think this [16:36] is probably good enough. [16:41] The hopefully finished config: https://termbin.com/1j8b [16:41] kc2bez: ^ [16:49] [matrix] @arraybolt3 Most excellent! [16:49] [matrix] That looks great. [16:56] Thanks :) I'll get it uploaded and prepare the SRU today most likely. [16:56] [matrix] Thank you! [17:03] I just finally really understood why a symbols file is necessary. liblxqt has a potentially-ABI-breaking fix needed for LFS on i386 in Debian, and it literally just clicked that having the symbols file will tell me if the change I intend on making breaks ABI or not. [17:03] s/LFS/Large File Support/ (since LFS can mean more than one thing) [18:35] Don't we have a bug about XScreenSaver's configuration window being totally glitchy on Kinetic and Lunar? [18:35] After how much we've worked on the bug itself, I'm surprised that I can't find the bug report now. [18:38] nvm, found it [18:50] kc2bez: I did make one more change to the file (changing my mind about enabling chooseRandomImages) since I'd like for this update to be SRU-able as is, and I think that enabling that feature might be outside what you [18:50] you're supposed to do in an SRU. [18:51] *Sigh*, disabling XFlame probably falls outside the scope of an SRU too. [18:52] * arraybolt3 grumbles and undoes that change too, then redoes it in only Lunar [19:50] Actually, I'll save that change for a full packaging update - it looks like lubuntu-default-settings could use some help. [19:52] Hey arraybolt3, looks like you've really been active recently :) would you have time from 3-4 PM or so today to just catch me up and summarize everything? [19:53] I'd like to jump back in a little bit and it would be good to make sure we're all on the same page on everything :) [20:07] tsimonq2: Sounds like a plan! [20:07] Glad to have you back :) [20:07] (btw I fully migrated to the new homeserver so even if you don't make an account, at least join #lubuntu-devel:lubuntu.me) [20:08] wrt XScreenSaver, the fix is uploaded to Lunar, and will be ready for SRU-ing... well, I guess whenever Britney gets around to it. [20:58] [matrix] o/ [21:03] [matrix] arraybolt3: So to start, I noticed your change to lubuntu-meta which migrates to PipeWire. I'll be dogfooding that momentarily :P [21:03] tsimonq2: One moment, I'm slightly delayed, give me like 3 minutes. [21:03] [matrix] No worries :) [21:07] [matrix] Alright, here for a bit, I'll be more stable-ly here shortly. [21:08] [matrix] Basically, we: [21:08] [matrix] 1. Migrated to PipeWire, there's a little bit of manual work that needs to be done for existing users of Lunar to fix that all the way. [21:08] [matrix] * Slight bug discovered with GTK apps + PipeWire on Lubuntu, only affects Lubuntu for some reason. [21:08] [matrix] 2. Fixed the XScreenSaver bug a moment ago. [21:08] [matrix] 3. Did more Debian LXQt work (which I need a bit of help with, liblxqt symbols file debate) [21:08] [matrix] that's what I can think of at the moment. [21:09] [matrix] Simon Quigley: [21:10] [matrix] I'm checking up on #1 right now, just to see if a "normal user" would be affected by anything after a reboot :P [21:11] [matrix] And actually, I just heard a notification sound [21:11] [matrix] It's an Electron app... but it works heh :P [21:11] [matrix] Nice. [21:11] [matrix] I'm currently using PipeWire, as is guiverc, it's working for the most part for us. [21:15] [matrix] I can't even tell something is broken... I did an update via sudo aptitude full-upgrade and rebooted. Bluetooth works, pavucontrol-qt works, Element desktop notifications work... [21:15] [matrix] I wonder if there's anything reproducible for GTK apps... deb packages only or snaps too? [21:17] [matrix] Anyway, I just saw the XScreenSaver fix come through, that's pretty great :) [21:18] [matrix] Aaron has been powering through. 😄 [21:18] [matrix] I can play audio in the Firefox and Chromium snaps too, hm [21:19] [matrix] Not sure about Snaps, but so far neither HexChat nor Thunderbird can make notification sounds while audio is playing in Chrome. [21:19] [matrix] Oh, *while* audio is playing in Chrome? [21:19] [matrix] Yes. [21:20] [matrix] Other apps (Element) seem to work just fine while audio is playing, but HexChat and Thunderbird, nope. [21:20] [matrix] Oh, I totally missed that, heh... [21:20] [matrix] Let me see [21:20] [matrix] (I tested this on Ubuntu Desktop, and the bug isn't there.) [21:21] [matrix] Has anyone tested Xubuntu? We might be a little closer aligned with them. [21:21] [matrix] Not yet. [21:21] [matrix] When playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ in the Chromium snap I can still hear Thunderbird notifications [21:21] [matrix] (Also the update_excuses.html file is busted, hasn't updated for a week or two) [21:21] [matrix] Simon Quigley: Did you remember to remove pulseaudio and pulseaudio-module-bluetooth? [21:21] [matrix] https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/lubuntu-23-04-now-uses-pipewire-info-you-should-know-call-for-testing/3907/6 [21:22] [matrix] aptitude did that for me automagically [21:22] [matrix] so yes they aren't installed or running :) [21:22] [matrix] I doubt it, those modules won't be marked autoremovable I don't think. [21:22] [matrix] Aptitude is pretty smart. [21:22] [matrix] I mean, at least do `pactl info` to be sure. [21:22] [matrix] Also, I can play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ in Firefox and I can still hear Thunderbird :P [21:22] [matrix] Yeah that doesn't work for me. [21:23] [matrix] These are Thunderbird email notifications you're getting, right? [21:23] [matrix] Yes [21:23] [matrix] Those are the ones that I think failed for me. [21:23] * lubot [matrix] does some testing [21:23] [matrix] When you go to the Thunderbird notification settings and test the playback sound, what happens? [21:24] * lubot [matrix] grabs a VM for some testing of 22.10 -> 23.04 [21:24] [matrix] No sound. [21:25] [matrix] When audio is in Chrome, that is. [21:25] [matrix] Once Chrome is paused and I wait a few seconds, then it works. === guiverc2 is now known as guiverc [21:26] [matrix] ``` [21:26] [matrix] $ ps -e | grep pulse [21:26] [matrix] 2090 ? 00:00:07 pipewire-pulse [21:26] [matrix] ``` [21:26] * lubot [matrix] needs another test machine [21:26] [matrix] OK that's odd. [21:26] [matrix] Maybe it's my Intel audio? Simon Quigley You don't happen to be on an AMD machine, do you? [21:26] [matrix] No, that is normal [21:26] [matrix] Dan Simmons : I mean it's odd that sound works for him. [21:26] [matrix] Having pipewire-pulse on is normal, yes. [21:26] [matrix] Oh, yeah that part [21:26] [matrix] (Notification sounds in Thunderbird that is.) [21:27] [matrix] My headset is Bluetooth, if that makes a difference :P [21:27] * guiverc is using snd_hda_intel so intel too [21:27] [matrix] Ohh. I'm just using my laptop speakers. [21:27] [matrix] Bluetooth might be going through a different path. [21:27] [matrix] How do I tell what I'm using, again? Heh [21:27] [matrix] `pactl info` [21:28] [matrix] Hey, that's good that the Bluetooth headset is working, that's the first time I know of that we've tested that! \o/ [21:28] [matrix] ...which line of this output is actually useful? [21:29] [matrix] `Server Name: PulseAudio (on PipeWire 0.3.63)` [21:29] [matrix] (That will look different if you're not on PipeWire.) [21:29] [matrix] Server Name: PulseAudio (on PipeWire 0.3.63) [21:29] [matrix] Can confirm [21:29] [matrix] Nice. A bug that is not consistent. [21:30] [matrix] Might just be Bluetooth working better than usual (that's what I'm hoping) :P [21:30] [matrix] Last I heard, audio was Erich's department XD [21:30] * lubot [matrix] bugs Eickmeyer [21:31] [matrix] Heh, studio might be the last to switch. I wonder what they know. 😂 [21:31] * lubot [matrix] in Pinhead's voice.... "YOU SUMMONED ME.... AND I CAME." [21:31] [matrix] XD [21:31] [matrix] Simon Quigley wants to know if you broke our PipeWire. /s [21:32] [matrix] It's Simon's fault. It's always Simon's fault. [21:32] [matrix] arraybolt3: If you could reproduce this in QEMU, that'd be sweet. heh [21:32] [matrix] Always XD [21:32] [matrix] Will attempt. [21:32] [matrix] I thought he was asking him to fix it LOL [21:33] [matrix] Wireplumber installed? [21:33] [matrix] Yup. [21:33] [matrix] Most audio works, just GTK apps can't make sounds when other apps are making sounds. Unless you're Simon, in which case everything Just Works. [21:33] [matrix] Install qpwgraph and see if things are making connections properly. [21:34] [matrix] zsync in progress in the background. [21:34] [matrix] arraybolt3: If you're looking for something extra, zsync needs a Debian Maintainer ;) [21:34] * lubot [matrix] runs [21:35] [matrix] Eickmeyer: Iiiinteresting. When I do that, I can see no connections made, not even when I press a button in Thunderbird. [21:35] [matrix] But, when I get a notification in Element, the sound plays, and suddenly I see a Chromium connection. [21:35] [matrix] And while that connection exists, Thunderbird goes silent. After a while, it vanishes, and then Thunderbird starts playing audio again. [21:35] "[matrix] Also, I..." <- Nice try, but fail [21:36] [matrix] arraybolt3: That's because all Electron apps are Chromium [21:36] [matrix] Right but I can see that the audio failure is related to the presence of a connection. [21:36] RikMills[m]: hahahahahahaha [21:36] [matrix] Yeah, I'm just wondering if something is missing. [21:36] [matrix] So somehow Thunderbird is playing audio *without* any connections in PipeWire??? [21:37] [matrix] Can you play audio from Firefox? [21:37] [matrix] Yep. [21:37] * lubot [matrix] scratches head [21:37] [matrix] A PipeWire connection appears when I do that. [21:37] [matrix] And Thunderbird goes silent. [21:38] [matrix] Stop audio and close Firefox, Thunderbird makes noise again. [21:38] [matrix] ...maybe, just maybe... GStreamer? [21:39] [matrix] Yeah, sounds like a gstreamer plugin is missing. [21:39] [matrix] HexChat also doesn't make any PipeWire connections when it plays audio. [21:39] * guiverc uses hexchat; no pings if I have music playing though :( [21:40] [matrix] `gstreamer1.0-pipewire/lunar,now 0.3.63-1 amd64 [installed]` it's there though. [21:40] [matrix] ``` [21:40] [matrix] gstreamer1.0-gl/lunar,now 1.20.4-1 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] gstreamer1.0-gtk3/lunar,now 1.20.3-1ubuntu2 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] gstreamer1.0-pipewire/lunar,now 0.3.63-1 amd64 [installed] [21:40] [matrix] gstreamer1.0-plugins-base/lunar,now 1.20.4-1 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] gstreamer1.0-plugins-good/lunar,now 1.20.3-1ubuntu2 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] gstreamer1.0-x/lunar,now 1.20.4-1 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] libgstreamer-gl1.0-0/lunar,now 1.20.4-1 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] libgstreamer-plugins-base1.0-0/lunar,now 1.20.4-1 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] libgstreamer-plugins-good1.0-0/lunar,now 1.20.3-1ubuntu2 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] libgstreamer1.0-0/lunar,now 1.20.4-1 amd64 [installed,automatic] [21:40] [matrix] ``` [21:40] [matrix] Some apps bypass the pulseaudio framework altogether and use alsa, which gets silenced if *anything* is active. [21:40] [matrix] Yeah but none of this happens in Ubuntu Desktop, which also uses PipeWire. [21:40] [matrix] HexChat can still make noise during other audio playback. [21:40] * lubot [matrix] wonders what Ubuntu Desktop shows in the face of `apt list --installed | grep gstreamer` [21:41] hexchat acts normal (sound wise) if no video playing in chromium/firefox or clementine not playing music [21:41] if firefox/chromium/clementine playing audio, hexchat is silent (or vice-versa..) [21:41] [matrix] Heh, brings back memories of my old KXStudio 14.04 days, which has ALSA and Jack, no pulseaudio. Man that was hard to fight with. [21:42] [matrix] Simon Quigley: Perhaps your idea of Aptitude was really good, maybe it installed whatever plugin we're missing. [21:42] * lubot [matrix] just used plain-ol Apt [21:42] [matrix] gir1.2-gstreamer-1.0 [21:42] [matrix] That's the only difference I see [21:42] [matrix] `sudo apt install gir1.2-gstreamer-1.0` now running. [21:42] [matrix] Well, you also have to remember that GNOME is better integrated and suited for Pipewire and knows how to use it. LXQt is using a Pulseaudio framework which is a compatibility layer for Pipewire and not using it directly. [21:44] [matrix] That might be the difference, although a longshot if the app doesn't depend on it. [21:44] [matrix] Just installed that package and restarted PipeWire and pipewire-pulse, no effect. [21:44] [matrix] Nothing I had depended on it. [21:44] [matrix] Gonna reboot, sec [21:47] [matrix] OK, back. [21:47] [matrix] Yeah that didn't fix it. [21:50] [matrix] arraybolt3: Is pulseaudio *completely removed* aka purged, from your system? [21:51] [matrix] Unsure. I *may* have only just removed, not purged, it. [21:51] [matrix] do a purge on it. I think you've got a leftover config. [21:51] [matrix] I recommend purging on the article on Discourse though so... [21:51] [matrix] How do I purge something without reinstalling it? [21:51] [matrix] YOu can purge without reinstall. [21:51] * lubot [matrix] slowly waits for my slow download. [21:51] [matrix] ``` [21:51] [matrix] arraybolt3@kf-XE:~$ sudo apt purge pulseaudio pulseaudio-module-bluetooth [21:51] [matrix] [sudo] password for arraybolt3: [21:51] [matrix] Reading package lists... Done [21:51] [matrix] Building dependency tree... Done [21:51] [matrix] Reading state information... Done [21:51] [matrix] Package 'pulseaudio' is not installed, so not removed [21:51] [matrix] Package 'pulseaudio-module-bluetooth' is not installed, so not removed [21:52] [matrix] The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: [21:52] [matrix] libabsl20210324 libdbi1 libflac8 libfwupdplugin7 liblerc3 libperl5.34 libqpdf28 [21:52] [matrix] librrd8 perl-modules-5.34 rrdtool [21:52] [matrix] Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them. [21:52] [matrix] 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. [21:52] [matrix] ``` [21:52] [matrix] Just did a sudo apt autopurge that took that libflac thing with it, maybe that will help? [21:53] [matrix] Ok, ```sudo systemctl disable pulseaudio-[tab]``` to make sure we disable the autospawn service. [21:53] [matrix] Just... covering bases. [21:53] [matrix] Nothing autofills when I hit Tab at the end. [21:53] [matrix] Ok, nvm then. [21:55] [matrix] Trying QEMU now. [21:55] [matrix] So far, I don't know what's afflicting you. You've got pipewire, pipewire-pulse, and wireplumber. That should be all you need. Thunderbird is just being a little jerk. [21:56] [matrix] Yeah. Lemme see how the live ISO behaves. [21:57] [matrix] FWIW, the pipewire-jack package doesn't configure itself properly. I had to write an upcoming ubuntustudio-pipewire-jack package that does the configuration. All flavors will be able to install it. [21:57] [matrix] The problem is easily reproducible for me in QEMU. [21:58] [matrix] And that's with today's daily? [21:58] [matrix] Boot the ISO, install Thunderbird, point Firefox at the Wikipedia page on LMMS and play the Skiessi - C64 sound on that page, then try to play a notification sound in Thunderbird while that's happening. [21:58] [matrix] Or with an upgraded system? [21:58] [matrix] At least the most recent daily. [21:58] [matrix] I zsynced it a few minutes ago. [21:58] [matrix] Sounds like a conflict with alsa. [21:58] [matrix] Try installing pipewire-alsa. [21:59] [matrix] Hey, that actually wasn't installed yet on the ISO. [21:59] [matrix] I'm going to run for a few hours, but please keep me posted - thank you for jumping in to help, Erich :) [21:59] [matrix] ...do we have a project management solution deployed yet? :) [21:59] * lubot [matrix] just accidentally destroyed the VM... [21:59] [matrix] +1 [22:00] [matrix] Hey, I had 1,000,000 other things going on, what is one more thing? 😅 j/k the other tasks had been delegated. [22:01] [matrix] 💥 [22:02] [matrix] Holy smoke that fixed it! [22:02] [matrix] 🎉 [22:02] [matrix] HexChat and Firefox can now play audio at the same time. [22:02] [matrix] Figured. Seemed like an alsa conflict that Thunderbird was bypassing the pulseaudio framework. [22:03] [matrix]