[01:17] <Dave92f1> test test
[01:18] <arraybolt3[m]> test successful!
[01:18] <Bashing-om> Dave92f1: Water is fine - come on in :D
[01:18] <Dave92f1> Ah - OK, glad to see this is working. I'm new to IRC.
[01:18] <guiverc> I see ya now Dave92f1 , if you have a Ubuntu question (non-support), this is a perfect room (in my opinion)
[01:19] <Dave92f1>  I'm sorry for the dumb questions and misunderstandings - there's a lot of unfamiliar terminology so understanding takes time.
[01:19] <Dave92f1> I think my bottom-line question is "is there any practical functional difference between to installing the Lubuntu .ISO, and installing the Ubuntu .ISO and then installing the Lubuntu DE on top of that"? (Other than how much disk space will get consumed - obviously the latter uses more.)
[01:19] <Dave92f1> At this point I think the answer is "no", except for the disk occupancy and consequent swift access to Ubuntu apps if wanted (already installed in the latter case). Do I have that correct?
[01:20] <arraybolt3> Dave92f1: YOu will end up having LXQt and GNOME installed on the same system.
[01:21] <arraybolt3> Which may or may not be confusing, since GNOME uses GTK and LXQt uses Qt, so launching an LXQt app in GNOME may look weird, as will running a GNOME app in LXQt.
[01:21] <guiverc> You'll have more packages installed; more disk space used, more packages to upgrade etc... but multiple sessions to choose from (a HUGE + for me)...  When you need a text editor though for example, you'll have more options as featherpad is the LXQt editor, GNOME has gedit...
[01:21] <cartdrige> If you want Lubuntu DE you better install Lubuntu iso out of the box,
[01:22] <guiverc> using featherpad whilst using a GNOME desktop is fine if your box has loads of spare resources, but using the correct app with desktop will mean desktop & app can share libs/toolkit & thus need less resources; meaning more for other apps you using ...
[01:22] <Dave92f1> @cartdrige Yes, that's the question - should I install the Lubuntu .ISO or install Ubuntu (plain) then install the Lubuntu stuff on top of that? I have a fast machine with plenty of space (so using extra disk space is not a problem).
[01:22] <guiverc> (fyi:  the libs/toolkits = Qt5 & GTK+3/4 that arraybolt3 mentioned)
[01:23] <guiverc> Dave92f1, to me the question is like 'what's your favorite ice-cream'... with just 2 DEs installed; I'd doubt I'd detect the difference (except if I byte-checked the drives where of course there would be).
[01:24] <guiverc> HOWEVER... when installing MANY desktops, the order can matter... did you read the link I provided on my older box?
[01:25] <Dave92f1> I'm new enough to Linux (been trying to get off of Windows for 30 dammned years) that just learning one DE is enough for now. And I like LXqt because I'm familiar with LXDE from Raspberry Pi OS.
[01:25] <guiverc> (ie. I also talked about my desire to add `kubuntu-desktop` there, but decided the hassles weren't worth it.. ie. add to many DEs & costs can become problematic..
[01:25] <cartdrige> any of u tried xubuntu?
[01:25]  * guiverc loves XFCE, though I'm using LXQt currently...
[01:26] <arraybolt3> Dave92f1: You should be aware that LXQt is used by Lubuntu now, not LXDE. We switched DEs. They're very similar (LXQt is the Qt bord of LXDE), but have a somewhat different look, though very similar feel.
[01:26] <arraybolt3> cartdrige: Used it off and on, loved it every time.
[01:26] <Bashing-om> cartdrige: I run a core install of Xubuntu :D
[01:26] <cartdrige> right, maybe lxqt/de will gain more popularity than xfce for lightweigth desktop.
[01:27] <cartdrige> yeay, i was sure it was used here.
[01:27] <Dave92f1> I know about the switch from LXDE to LXQt, but they're close "enough" for my purposes (general familiarity). I like the LXQt look better anyway. (I like Qt in general.)
[01:28] <guiverc> LXDE & LXQt are different desktops, using different libs/toolkits... they started the same place (LXDE port from GTK2 to GTK3 & issue... leading to ...) but LXDE is probably on life-support due to deprecated toolkits & only partial conversion to ...
[01:29] <Dave92f1> So if I'm going to use LXQt virtually all the time, is there any downside to installing Lubuntu on top of the Ubuntu .ISO, vs. just installing the Lubuntu .ISO clean? (Seems like "no", but I'm testing my understanding.)
[01:29] <guiverc> fyi:  I was conversing with Dave92f1 on askubu & suggested coming here (i think; my usage of Ubuntu SSO on askubuntu prevented chat)
[01:29] <arraybolt3> Most likely, no, there's no downsides I can think of.
[01:29] <Dave92f1> @guiverc yes you did
[01:30] <arraybolt3> guiverc: Ah. Is it OK that I'm having input, or would it be better if I did something else?
[01:30] <guiverc> arraybolt3, please add anything you can, more views will be helpful! and not hurtful
[01:30] <Dave92f1> @arraybolt3 It's a public conversation - all input is welcome.
[01:31]  * guiverc gave history ^ on askubu for benefits of Aaron & Billy or others (who may not have understood my refs to prior)
[01:33] <Dave92f1> Maybe dumb question, but if there's no downside, why are there mutliple .ISO installs in the first place? Wouldn't it be simpler to have just one, plus instructions on how to install your desired enviroment on top of it?
[01:33] <Dave92f1> Is it just about smaller dowloads/smaller disk space (nothing wrong with conserving those, just trying to understand the motivations).
[01:33] <arraybolt3> Dave92f1: Not everyone wants more than one DE, and sometimes they can conflict with each other.
[01:33]  * Bashing-om trust guiverc - would never dare to step on his toes :P
[01:33] <arraybolt3> Installing a new DE is relatively easy. Removing one...
[01:33] <arraybolt3> ...not so easy.
[01:34] <guiverc> I recall Debian having all options; took 8-11 DVDs of 4.77GB... that's one HUGE ISO if it contains everything... no one wants an ISO that size.
[01:34] <arraybolt3> I mean I guess I don't know if removing one is actually that hard, but I would guess it would be tricky.
[01:34] <arraybolt3> Dave92f1: Also a lot of users aren't technical enough to know *how* to install a new DE and remove an existing one.
[01:34]  * guiverc LOLs @ Bashing-om's response, thank you !
[01:35] <arraybolt3> And if you're installing a lot of computers, you don't want to have to install software you won't ever use, install the stuff you want, uninstall the stuff you don't want, and hope it didn't leave too many pieces behind.
[01:35] <Dave92f1> @arraybolt3 You are looking at me. Earlier today I bricked my PC trying to install LXQt on top of Ubuntu. I had to start over from the .ISO.
[01:35] <arraybolt3> Oy. Maybe you hit one of those theoretical incompatibilities.
[01:36] <guiverc> background... I love multiple DEs, as when I started with Ubuntu... I could download Ubuntu ISOs bandwidth free (no quota limits), thus always installed the Ubuntu ISO then switched to a quota-free mirror to whatever desktop/flavor I really wanted... I played with removing DEs & adding them, and decided I liked multiple DEs...
[01:37] <Dave92f1> @guiverc I can see 11 DVDs if it all has to work offline and you can't assume you just download what you want. (I'm an old timer and am making an active effort to get used to the idea that it's OK for my system to break without Internet access - I never complained when it wouldn't work without electricity!)
[01:37] <guiverc> Adding the first 1-2 is usually problem free; removing the first 1-2 is also usually problem free; but as you keep going issues start appearing..  After 3-4 problems are almost guaranteed though maybe petty/minor, but also maybe real issue...
[01:37] <Bashing-om> arraybolt3: A script that makes DE removal somwhat less painful: https://github.com/aysiu/purebuntu. Sure that by now will need adjustemnts :(
[01:38] <guiverc> Sorry to hear about the bricking PC by adding Lubuntu.. what release? and how did you install it?  (Lubuntu hat was placed on)
[01:40] <guiverc> fyi:  I used to add specific packages when adding another desktop, with aim of getting ONLY WHAT I WANTED.. but soon gave up on that.. I found adding everything via `sudo apt install lubuntu-desktop` to add Lubuntu's LXQt for example, was far less problematic
[01:41] <Dave92f1> I was on Ubuntu 2204 LTS. I didn't make a record of exactly what command I used (I learned I need to...), it was something I cribbed from a web post somewhere. I think I was just installing LXQt and not the whole Lubuntu.
[01:41] <guiverc> I'm aware of others in the room here for example that if wanting Xfce would add different metapackages than I would.. but I've found adding `xubuntu-desktop` easiest for all releases.. choosing smaller meta-packages can vary on release (& I don't know yours Dave92f1)
[01:42] <guiverc> fyi:  I've added `lubuntu-desktop` on a Ubuntu Desktop 22.04 system without issue.. but not recently
[01:46] <guiverc> Dave92f1, do you know how to re-install non-destructively , ie. if you make a bad mistake, how you can quickly re-install & not lose any data files, and have the 'manually installed' packages (ie. those you added) auto-reinstall (if available in Ubuntu repositories) ?  It's worth leaning...
[01:46] <Dave92f1> I have to say I haven't tried using IRC for getting answers before - I just always posted on SE or similar. This is great.
[01:46] <guiverc> Many of us learn on making mistakes... recovering from those mistakes need not take long, being the point
[01:46] <guiverc> Every tool has +'s & -'s... #ubuntu is the room for actual Ubuntu support questions
[01:47] <Dave92f1> @guiverc No, I don't. Can you point me at instructions? Instead I'm a backup fanatic. I can brick my stuff and restore quickly. (Esp. since I moved most of my data files to Google Drive...which I also backup locally to a HDD.)
[01:48] <guiverc> irc can require patience, just ask the question, have the machine make a noise when your name is mentioned & you can look at screen when you get response..  we're all different timezones etc
[01:48] <sarnold> "require patience" yes :)
[01:49] <Dave92f1> I'm using Quassel IRC (first thing that came up when I typed 'irc' into the bird menu). What makes a post get an orange background - is it a mention like @guiverc? (with the @ sign?)
[01:49] <guiverc> Dave92f1, I talked about it here (https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/testing-checklist-understanding-the-testcases/2743) where it's the "Install using existing partition" testcase of Lubuntu... It's just a no-format install; the lack of format triggers the 'repair' type of install
[01:49] <guiverc> (note that doc was written for QA-testers, not end-users, but I think you'll understand, and can ask if you can't anyway)
[01:50] <sarnold> Dave92f1: the '@' doesn't mean anything to most irc clients
[01:50] <sarnold> Dave92f1: some clients only highlight someone when their nickname is the first word, but most will highlight if the nickname is used anywhere in the message
[01:50] <guiverc> your IRC client will detect your name being mentioned... I have mine FLASH & play a sound (alas I'm using `hexchat` having picked up that habit long ago on Xfce/Xubuntu..)
[01:50] <Dave92f1> On this client, if I type @ and then a partial username, the tab key completes it automatically. So I thought maybe that was it.
[01:51] <Dave92f1> guiverc: Oh, it does it even without the @. Oh.
[01:51] <Dave92f1> You all are watching a steep learning curve here.
[01:51] <guiverc> (the @ is required if person is using a Mastodon bridge/client.. the [m] being visible for many mastodon clients such as my own)
[01:52] <Dave92f1> The @ works on Stack Exchange comments too.
[01:53] <guiverc> Dave92f1, using a @ won't worry me.. my client (hexchat) tabs on a username anywhere  (I wish it could do that for words I can't spell though!)
[01:53] <Dave92f1> So if you do a re-install per https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/testing-checklist-understanding-the-testcases/2743, that must overwrite lots of config files anyway, no?
[01:54] <guiverc> the purpose of the 'install using existing partition' as (I attempted to) describe in that doc was to re-install the release (which can be a different version too!) without loss of data files, no loss of user configs... & having manually installed (ie. packages you added post-install) re-install automatically... 
[01:55] <Dave92f1> guiverc: So it just doesn't touch /home/<user>?
[01:55] <guiverc> The box I'm using now (a 2008 dell desktop) has many installs; a focal (20.04) install I'll soon use that install method to switch to Lunar (23.04), a jammy install (22.04) that I re-install weekly as my means of upgrading packages, and a kinetic (22.10) install that exists only for support..   No user file in $HOME (/home/$USER) is touched correct!
[01:56] <guiverc> which means of course; if your problem is a USER CONFIG issue, the problem will survive the re-install, but it's great to fix package mistakes for example... just not user-config mistakes
[01:56] <Dave92f1> But it could be something in $HOME that is causing the problem in the first place. I guess there's no harm in trying.
[01:57] <guiverc> And please realize it's not Lubuntu specific; it works with Ubuntu Desktop releases; and all other Ubuntu flavors too (using `calamares` or `ubiquity` installers)....
[01:57] <guiverc> fyi:  I've not had a successful install yet with the new desktop installer (canary), but the plan is for that to work too before 23.04 is released in April
[01:57] <Dave92f1> Unrelated question - is there a program that converts Windows .lnk files ("shortcuts") into symlinks? I have a lot of shortcuts that would work OK on Linux if they were symlinks.
[01:58] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[01:58] <guiverc> G'day lotuspsychje 
[01:58] <lotuspsychje> hey guiverc 
[01:58]  * guiverc has no idea about symlinks, always reviewed manually & recreated those I wanted myself
[02:01] <Dave92f1> ..or, is there a file manger that knows how to follow .LNK files (as if they were soft links)?
[02:03] <guiverc> I can't imagine any dev creating such a tool; as drive mounts can vary thus would require setup..  (eg. I can change the BIOS/uEFI config of some boxes & drives will have different labels/IDs when next booted)
[02:04] <Dave92f1> I'd think it could be made to work OK when the .LNK file is on the same filesystem as its target. (Usually the case for me.)
[02:07] <guiverc> Dave92f1, just fyi.. if you have actual Ubuntu support questions, joining and asking them in #ubuntu would probably be best... I suggested here for discussion about Ubuntu/desktops etc.. which to me at least, wasn't really a support question thus my suggesting this room..  You can co-exist in many rooms  (many of us do!)
[02:07] <Dave92f1> Thanks for the advice; will do.
[02:08] <guiverc> also flavors have their own rooms, eg. #lubuntu for lubuntu... but you can use #ubuntu for all Ubuntu flavors too...   Only ask a question in one room at a time though..  (you'll annoy the many of us in many rooms when we detect many asks)... we'll answer when we see it & can answer
[02:09] <Dave92f1> You are very kind to this newbie; thank you.
[02:09] <guiverc> (if after a reasonable delay you don't get a response in one room, THEN it would be appropriate to try another room..)
[02:14] <Dave92f1> I just posted the question there. Seems to be very little traffic on #ubuntu.
[02:18] <guiverc> depends on the time of day, at times it can be busy (esp. soon after a release for example), other times not busy...