Roeyhey is anyone here?00:33
mmikowskiRoey: I just joined.00:49
Roeyoh hey mmikowski00:52
RoeyI'm looking for anyone who knows about installing Kubuntu on BTRFS on LUKS over /, /home and swap.00:53
mmikowskiHi Roey00:53
mmikowskiI do! :)00:53
Roeytonyw did but he's out at the moment00:53
Roeyoh really now!!00:53
mmikowskiWe actually considered that for Kubuntu Focus 22.04 release, so I did the whole thing.00:53
Roeymmikowski: I'm looking at https://github.com/BinaryShrub/ubuntu-btrfs-luks#Install-Ubuntu-20.04-on-BTRFS-with-LUKS00:53
Roeymmikowski: hmmm ok00:53
Roeymmikowski: so here's my situation:  I have a new Dell Inspiron 16 (5620) laptop with a 1 TB SSD, with Win11 pre-installed.00:54
mmikowskiWe did not release it because of issues with support upstream and an uneven toolset.00:54
mmikowskiIt also ate my disk :P00:54
Roeyok I figured that might have been why (b/c of immaturity of tools)00:54
mmikowskiWell, honestly, for me, it was a good fit.00:54
Roeyso what did you do, exactly, to get this installation to work?00:55
pedahzurmmikowski: Quick question: Is it a known issue that the Kubuntu installer can't do LUKS in a manual partition? I'll paste my full question from above if it's not in your scrollback buffer.00:55
RoeyAlso, Tony Walker (tonyw here) was showing me this yesterday, but I find it very complicated for my use case: https://github.com/tonywalker1/ubuntu-tips/blob/main/add-btrfs-subvolumes.md00:56
Roeymmikowski: ^00:56
mmikowskiBut the support issues for less skilled administrators is big. There is no simple rollback button, especially when considering near-FDE and the need to separate partitions. You can roll back root, for example, but then /boot can get out of sing.00:56
mmikowskiSo if you know what you're doing, it's good. But for many people, it's too hard.00:56
Roeymmikowski: does /boot also go on LUKS?00:57
mmikowskiOk, on to the questions. pedahzur: yes, Kubuntu installer does not do LUKs in a manual partition IIRC.  It's all or nothing.00:57
Roeyor like.  uefi  /boot  [ / /home swap ]<-LUKS   ?00:57
pedahzurAh, shucks. OK. I'll just do a minimal install with Ubuntu, then install KDE.00:57
mmikowskipedahzur: Does Ubuntu provide better tools for LUKS partitioning (sounds like it!)00:58
mmikowskiI think we used Ubuntu Server for that purpose to start way back when using 18.04.00:58
pedahzurWell, I can't honestly say I've tried the graphical installer, so can't speak there, but the text-based installer is very solid in doing ext4 on LUKS. I've done it several times.00:59
mmikowskiRoey: I will need to look up my notes.00:59
Roeythank you mmikowski00:59
Roeylike I said, my laptop is brand new00:59
mmikowskiAh, yeah, Ubuntu Server.00:59
Roeywith win11 preinstalled, so it has that uefi partition on it too00:59
mmikowskiIIRC, we had a dual-boot system with extensive partitioning requirements, and that's how we got around it. Then installed kubuntu-desktop on top.01:00
mmikowskiwith the correct repos set up, of course.01:00
mmikowskiRoey: You want to keep win11?01:00
Roeyoh no01:00
RoeyI just want to install linux01:00
mmikowskiOk, that makes it a lot easier.01:00
Roeyyeah if I want windows i'll load it in a VM01:01
mmikowskidigging up ticket with details ...01:01
mmikowskiok, what we had was a pre- and post- install script. We used apt-btrfs-snapshot to auto-run snapshots after each apt action.01:04
mmikowskidigging out pre-install script now.01:04
Roeymmikowski: oh so you're on the kubuntu installer development team?01:05
mmikowskino, I work with Kubuntu Focus.01:06
Roeyohh ok01:07
mmikowskiWe get involved with that sometimes. For example, we sponsored fixes for an installer bug where the keyboard layout was squished.01:07
mmikowskiWe are also pursuing an issue where if the user clicks 'continue' the whole installer crashes.01:07
mmikowskiWe also provided an SDDM work-around to fix nested login windows on mult-monitor displays.01:07
mmikowskiStuff like that.01:07
Roey<mmikowski> We are also pursuing an issue where if the user clicks 'continue' the whole installer crashes. <- lovely :)01:08
Roeyoh -- BRB in three or so minutes01:08
mmikowskiAlso, the plymouth theme for encryption passwords is now resolution independent and works with BIOS splash and no longer has text lying over text. We worked to get all those fixed upstream.01:08
mmikowskiLots of thanks to Eickmeyer on all of that, and of course RikMills.01:09
mmikowskihmm, just checked-out the branch that's supposed to have it, but it's not there. I might have read something wrong.  Looking ...01:11
mmikowskiok, looking again.  Here is a link where you can use stock Ubuntu for this purpose. Then install kubuntu-desktop over the top and ensure you have the correct repos. That might be easiest.01:13
arrayboltXEThere have been reports that using BTRFS and LUKS together can shorten SSD lifespan dramatically, so please make sure to have plenty of backups if you're going to do this.01:14
Roeywhy btrfs and luks together necessarily01:14
mmikowskiarrayboltXE: I can confirm that it can have a catestrophic failure.01:14
Roeyand also swap on luks as well, right?01:15
Roeyso there goes my idea of an encrypted BTRFS setup01:15
arrayboltXEBTRFS does copy-on-write, which uses up more writes on the drive. Why LUKS messes things up further, I have no clue.01:15
Roeyregarding the writes - so SSDs do use wear-leveling01:15
mmikowskiHowever, I did use it daily for 4 months, and the disk usage per SMART was still 0% used on a Samsung 970.01:16
mmikowskiPerformance was around 60% of LUKS + Ext401:16
arrayboltXEThere's also reports that it works just fine (case in point, a Lubuntu Developer and Ubuntu Core Developer I work closely with does it). I'm too chicken to try and just use encrypted ext4 :P01:17
mmikowskiA good backup solution (BackInTime) works better in many circumstances IMO, and is easier to manage.01:17
mmikowskiext4 + LUKS is by far the fastest and most stable.01:18
Roeyhow do I do all this01:19
RoeyI've got a 1TB SSD on this01:19
mmikowskiI found it :)01:19
RoeyI don't care about the wearing01:19
Roeyah :)01:19
mmikowskiok Roey, I can give you pre- and post- install scripts. Recognize that these are NOT production ready; we did not polish them for end users because the Proof-Of-Concept testing showed too many problems.01:23
mmikowskiSo these are alpha quality.01:23
Roeyhow would I run them?01:23
Roeyand when?01:23
Roeyat what point (before/after installation?)01:23
mmikowskiThey contain reference to creating a recovery partition that you actually do not want.01:23
Roeyi mean01:24
mmikowskiThis is in a README. Also included are links to documents.01:24
Roeyagain I have this uefi partition that I cannot /not/ install01:24
mmikowskiWhen you say your have a uefi partition you cannot install, what do you mean? Is it immutable or something?01:25
RoeyI mean it's a laptop with UEFI01:25
Roeyand as far as I understand, I need to keep that smal initial UEFI partition around01:26
Roeyor somehtin glike that01:26
Roeyotherwise it won't boot01:26
mmikowskiAh, that will be taken care of by the installer.01:26
Roeydo I do manual paritioning? automated partitioning?01:26
mmikowskiYou don't need to worry about it unless you are manually paritioning.01:26
RoeyI want to nuke the win11 junk too01:27
mmikowskiThen you will need to create one.01:27
Roeycreate a uefi partition yhou mean?01:27
mmikowskiThere is no need to worry about its contents.01:27
RoeyI don't even know what goes on in that small partition01:27
mmikowskiIf you try to use manual installation without adding a uefi partition it will prompted you to go back and add one.01:28
mmikowskiDo not ignore that :)01:28
mmikowskiSwap is not on BTRFS01:29
Roeyyeah swap is not on btrfs.01:30
RoeyI do want it on luks though01:30
Roeyencrypted swap01:30
Roeyif that is possible01:30
Roeyso my setup would look like   UEFI-parition  ext4:/boot  [LUKS:  btrfs:/  btrfs:/home]01:31
mmikowskiswap is separately encrypted01:31
Roeyso my setup would look like   UEFI-parition  ext4:/boot  [LUKS:  btrfs:/  btrfs:/home  swap]01:31
mmikowskiSo I can sanitize this and send it along, but you'd be on your own here.01:36
mmikowskiHopefully it would give you good pointers.01:36
mmikowskiSo Roey, if you are into it, I have a bundle I can send somewhere with these scripts and a readme.01:39
mmikowskiThey are not publicly available.01:39
mmikowskiAs they were internal development only.01:39
mmikowskiIf you want it, how should I send you the file?01:40
Roeyit's fine01:42
RoeyI ant something that is usable01:42
Roeyand tested01:42
RoeyI don't undrestand how kubuntu doesn't have this available as an installation option01:42
mmikowskiInterestingly, the original documents I used to develop the scripts have, in some cases, been removed(!)01:44
mmikowskiNot mine, but others.01:44
Roeyok so the01:44
mmikowskiThis, for example, doesn't appear available. He says it's moved, but when I go to the new site, it's not there: https://mutschler.eu/linux/install-guides/ubuntu-btrfs-20-04/01:44
Roeyso I'm just left with the understanding that this isn't feasible01:45
Roeyat all01:45
RoeyI honestly cannot commit to bashrc-fu01:45
mmikowskiIt's feasible, just a lot of work and not supported.01:45
RoeyI did a lot of that stuff in my 20s, now I just want stuff ot work01:45
Roeyyeah it's he "lot of work" that bums me01:45
mmikowskiThen I'd recommend then using LUKS + ext4 with BackInTime backups and apt-rollback.01:46
Roeyand not supported.  You know where I was last in this position? trying to install XFS on /, on a 64-bit desktop, back in 2005.01:46
mmikowskiThat's what we do with the Focus load out.01:46
Roeyok. is this supported?01:46
Roeydoes it work?01:46
mmikowskiYou can get that at https://kfocus.org/try01:46
Roeydoes it need a lot of work to make it go?01:46
mmikowskiYeah. It starts running BackInTime pre-configured out-of-the-box01:46
mmikowskiIt's even in the welcome wizard01:47
Roeyand on LUKS?01:47
mmikowskiYes, on LUKS01:47
Roeyok wonderful01:47
RoeyI'll get Kubuntu Focus then01:47
Roeycan I run a btrfs tool to convert the ext4 partition into BTRFS afterwards?01:48
mmikowskiSuper supported. Check out https://kfocus.org/wf/reinstall.html. There's also a page on backups: https://kfocus.org/wf/backup01:48
mmikowskiConverting an ext4 parition to btrfs is possible, but you would need to destroy the data on the partition.01:49
mmikowskiAlso see https://kfocus.org/wf for lots of helpful articles.01:49
Roeyalso with ext4 then what happens on bootup after an ungraceful reboot?01:50
Roeyis it going to take 10 minutes to scan the disk?01:50
arrayboltXEext4 generally recovers very well and very quickly after a hard shutdown, in my experience.01:50
RoeyWhen presented with the Installation Type, choose your preferred method. We use Guided - use entire disk for unencrypted disks and Guided - use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM for full-disk encryption. If you choose the latter, DO NOT FORGET THE PASSWORD YOU CREATE, as it cannot be recovered.01:50
Roeyso is LVM the same as LUKS?01:50
arrayboltXENo, the two are different.01:50
mmikowskiFailure modes are discussed here: https://kfocus.org/wf/recovery.html01:50
mmikowskiRight. It's ext4 over LVM over LUKS01:51
arrayboltXELVM is a special way of formatting a disk that has some advantages. LUKS is the encryption layer. Either one can be used independently of the other, or both can be used together (which is what the installer does).01:51
Roeyso LVM encryption under the 22.10 Kubuntu standard installer, that is not LUKS?01:51
Roeyand is 22.04 means no 22.10?01:52
mmikowskiAny encryption on Kubuntu is LUKS01:52
Roeyand is wayland supported on Kubuntu Focus?01:52
Roeymmikowski: so kubuntu's installer supports encyption over LVM01:52
arrayboltXEWayland technically can be used, but I don't believe it's supported yet.01:52
Roeymaybe that is LUKS01:52
mmikowskiKubuntu Focus ISO is stock 22.04 with extra tools and a hardware configuration subsystem.01:53
arrayboltXERoey: LVM and LUKS are entirely separate technologies. They can be used at the same time though.01:53
mmikowskiYour system would be recognized as 'other'01:53
mmikowskiWayland on 22.04 LTS has issues and is not recommended.01:53
mmikowskiHowever, the benefit of 22.04 LTS is that it is LTS.01:54
mmikowskiMany 3rd-party solution are only supported on LTS releases.01:54
mmikowskiYou can see a review of KFocus 22.04 on https://kfocus.org/features/ by InfinitelyGalactic. It's a few videos down.01:55
mmikowskiSo if you want to try it, it's there. You would need to do more work for your hardware, but it might at least give some ideas of what a good setup might be for you.01:55
mmikowskikk Roey, I need to get back to work. I hope that is helpful.01:57
mmikowskiarrayboltXE: Good to see you!01:57
arrayboltXEmmikowski: Good to see you too!01:58
mmikowskifinal note Roey: If you try the kfocus load-out, update the software and rerun the welcome wizard. That will then direct you to BackInTime and start it for you.01:58
mmikowskiThanks Aaron!01:59
Roeyok so01:59
RoeyKubuntu lets me do "use entire disk - LVM encryption"01:59
Roeybut then it proposes to use the <entire> ssd disk, no uefi partition01:59
mmikowskiJust see the install link I provided.01:59
Roeyfuck /me/ why is this such a bitch, it's 2023..01:59
Roeymmikowski: ok01:59
mmikowskiIt isn't.01:59
mmikowskiIt will add the uefi partition for you. It's just a few clicks.02:00
Roeyautomatically? ok02:00
Roey(regular kubuntu installer here, not the kubun tu focus one)02:00
mmikowskiYes. I've installed Windows 11 and Kubuntu 22.04. Trust me, the latter is FAR easier and faster.02:00
mmikowskiThe installer is the same.02:00
mmikowskiIn fact, the instruction link I provided will work almost completely with the stock Kubuntu 22.04.02:01
mmikowskiRoey, nice to meet you. I gotta get bac, to building a kernel package :P02:02
mmikowskiBest of luck!02:02
Roeythank you mmikowski!!02:08
IrcsomeBot<dralex20> hi guys. i couldn't find right subversion version for 22.04 LTS KDE plasma07:22
karstenkIs the service plasmashell influenced by docker builds and runs iam doing on my desktop?07:43
karstenkwondering that plasmashell takes much more CPU as the docker build itself, which is very slow07:45
=== mpendlebury is now known as Element
BluesKajHi all12:49
blakewhat is this place12:52
BluesKajkubuntu support12:53
Roeyhello, any XP Pen users here?16:14
fusion1181I am having trouble with updates. It seems that for some reason grub-common and software-properties-common are not able to install due to dependancy issues. How would I go about resolving this issue?17:27
fusion1181A little bit of background. I have been running the system for about a year without any issues. During a recent update these failed to update. Usually I do updates using the Discovery app17:29
oerheksfusion1181, apt install -f # fixes things, also you might want to run apt dist-upgrade17:30
ubottuA dist-upgrade will install new dependencies for packages already installed and may remove packages if they are no longer needed. This will not bring you to a new release of Ubuntu, see !upgrade if that is your intention.17:30
fusion1181dist-upgrade did fix the python3 packages but the grub-common grub-pc-bin grub-pc grub2-common report that they have been kept back17:33
fusion1181Is there a way to see more details about why it is held back?17:33
oerheksit could be phased updates17:35
fusion1181Ah... It reports that grub2-common requires grub-common 2.06-2ubuntu7 instead of the newer 2.06-2ubuntu7.1 so it does look like a phased update type of scenario17:36
fusion1181oerheks: thank you for your help :)17:37
oerhekshave fun!17:38
=== Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life

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