[00:33] <Roey> hey is anyone here?
[00:49] <mmikowski> Roey: I just joined.
[00:52] <Roey> oh hey mmikowski
[00:53] <Roey> I'm looking for anyone who knows about installing Kubuntu on BTRFS on LUKS over /, /home and swap.
[00:53] <mmikowski> Hi Roey
[00:53] <mmikowski> I do! :)
[00:53] <Roey> tonyw did but he's out at the moment
[00:53] <Roey> oh?
[00:53] <Roey> oh really now!!
[00:53] <mmikowski> We actually considered that for Kubuntu Focus 22.04 release, so I did the whole thing.
[00:53] <Roey> mmikowski: I'm looking at https://github.com/BinaryShrub/ubuntu-btrfs-luks#Install-Ubuntu-20.04-on-BTRFS-with-LUKS
[00:53] <Roey> mmikowski: hmmm ok
[00:54] <Roey> mmikowski: so here's my situation:  I have a new Dell Inspiron 16 (5620) laptop with a 1 TB SSD, with Win11 pre-installed.
[00:54] <mmikowski> We did not release it because of issues with support upstream and an uneven toolset.
[00:54] <Roey> ahhhhh
[00:54] <mmikowski> It also ate my disk :P
[00:54] <Roey> ok I figured that might have been why (b/c of immaturity of tools)
[00:54] <Roey> !!!!!!!!
[00:54] <mmikowski> Well, honestly, for me, it was a good fit.
[00:54] <Roey> :)
[00:55] <Roey> so what did you do, exactly, to get this installation to work?
[00:55] <pedahzur> mmikowski: Quick question: Is it a known issue that the Kubuntu installer can't do LUKS in a manual partition? I'll paste my full question from above if it's not in your scrollback buffer.
[00:56] <Roey> Also, Tony Walker (tonyw here) was showing me this yesterday, but I find it very complicated for my use case: https://github.com/tonywalker1/ubuntu-tips/blob/main/add-btrfs-subvolumes.md
[00:56] <Roey> mmikowski: ^
[00:56] <mmikowski> But the support issues for less skilled administrators is big. There is no simple rollback button, especially when considering near-FDE and the need to separate partitions. You can roll back root, for example, but then /boot can get out of sing.
[00:56] <mmikowski> So if you know what you're doing, it's good. But for many people, it's too hard.
[00:57] <Roey> ok
[00:57] <Roey> mmikowski: does /boot also go on LUKS?
[00:57] <mmikowski> Ok, on to the questions. pedahzur: yes, Kubuntu installer does not do LUKs in a manual partition IIRC.  It's all or nothing.
[00:57] <Roey> or like.  uefi  /boot  [ / /home swap ]<-LUKS   ?
[00:57] <pedahzur> Ah, shucks. OK. I'll just do a minimal install with Ubuntu, then install KDE.
[00:58] <mmikowski> pedahzur: Does Ubuntu provide better tools for LUKS partitioning (sounds like it!)
[00:58] <mmikowski> I think we used Ubuntu Server for that purpose to start way back when using 18.04.
[00:59] <Roey> ok
[00:59] <pedahzur> Well, I can't honestly say I've tried the graphical installer, so can't speak there, but the text-based installer is very solid in doing ext4 on LUKS. I've done it several times.
[00:59] <mmikowski> Roey: I will need to look up my notes.
[00:59] <Roey> thank you mmikowski
[00:59] <Roey> like I said, my laptop is brand new
[00:59] <mmikowski> Ah, yeah, Ubuntu Server.
[00:59] <Roey> with win11 preinstalled, so it has that uefi partition on it too
[01:00] <mmikowski> IIRC, we had a dual-boot system with extensive partitioning requirements, and that's how we got around it. Then installed kubuntu-desktop on top.
[01:00] <mmikowski> with the correct repos set up, of course.
[01:00] <mmikowski> Roey: You want to keep win11?
[01:00] <Roey> oh no
[01:00] <Roey> I just want to install linux
[01:00] <mmikowski> Ok, that makes it a lot easier.
[01:00] <Roey> \o/
[01:01] <Roey> yeah if I want windows i'll load it in a VM
[01:01] <mmikowski> digging up ticket with details ...
[01:01] <Roey> thanks
[01:04] <mmikowski> ok, what we had was a pre- and post- install script. We used apt-btrfs-snapshot to auto-run snapshots after each apt action.
[01:04] <mmikowski> digging out pre-install script now.
[01:05] <Roey> ok
[01:05] <Roey> mmikowski: oh so you're on the kubuntu installer development team?
[01:06] <mmikowski> no, I work with Kubuntu Focus.
[01:07] <Roey> ohh ok
[01:07] <mmikowski> We get involved with that sometimes. For example, we sponsored fixes for an installer bug where the keyboard layout was squished.
[01:07] <mmikowski> We are also pursuing an issue where if the user clicks 'continue' the whole installer crashes.
[01:07] <mmikowski> We also provided an SDDM work-around to fix nested login windows on mult-monitor displays.
[01:07] <mmikowski> Stuff like that.
[01:07] <Roey> ok
 We are also pursuing an issue where if the user clicks 'continue' the whole installer crashes. <- lovely :)
[01:08] <Roey> oh -- BRB in three or so minutes
[01:08] <mmikowski> Also, the plymouth theme for encryption passwords is now resolution independent and works with BIOS splash and no longer has text lying over text. We worked to get all those fixed upstream.
[01:09] <mmikowski> Lots of thanks to Eickmeyer on all of that, and of course RikMills.
[01:11] <mmikowski> hmm, just checked-out the branch that's supposed to have it, but it's not there. I might have read something wrong.  Looking ...
[01:11] <Roey> back
[01:13] <mmikowski> ok, looking again.  Here is a link where you can use stock Ubuntu for this purpose. Then install kubuntu-desktop over the top and ensure you have the correct repos. That might be easiest.
[01:13] <mmikowski> https://github.com/BinaryShrub/ubuntu-btrfs-luks#Install-Ubuntu-20.04-on-BTRFS-with-LUKS
[01:14] <arrayboltXE> There have been reports that using BTRFS and LUKS together can shorten SSD lifespan dramatically, so please make sure to have plenty of backups if you're going to do this.
[01:14] <Roey> hrm.
[01:14] <Roey> why btrfs and luks together necessarily
[01:14] <mmikowski> arrayboltXE: I can confirm that it can have a catestrophic failure.
[01:15] <Roey> and also swap on luks as well, right?
[01:15] <Roey> hrm.
[01:15] <Roey> so there goes my idea of an encrypted BTRFS setup
[01:15] <arrayboltXE> BTRFS does copy-on-write, which uses up more writes on the drive. Why LUKS messes things up further, I have no clue.
[01:15] <Roey> regarding the writes - so SSDs do use wear-leveling
[01:16] <mmikowski> However, I did use it daily for 4 months, and the disk usage per SMART was still 0% used on a Samsung 970.
[01:16] <mmikowski> Performance was around 60% of LUKS + Ext4
[01:17] <arrayboltXE> There's also reports that it works just fine (case in point, a Lubuntu Developer and Ubuntu Core Developer I work closely with does it). I'm too chicken to try and just use encrypted ext4 :P
[01:17] <mmikowski> A good backup solution (BackInTime) works better in many circumstances IMO, and is easier to manage.
[01:18] <mmikowski> ext4 + LUKS is by far the fastest and most stable.
[01:19] <Roey> ok
[01:19] <Roey> anyway
[01:19] <Roey> how do I do all this
[01:19] <Roey> I've got a 1TB SSD on this
[01:19] <mmikowski> I found it :)
[01:19] <Roey> I don't care about the wearing
[01:19] <Roey> ah :)
[01:23] <mmikowski> ok Roey, I can give you pre- and post- install scripts. Recognize that these are NOT production ready; we did not polish them for end users because the Proof-Of-Concept testing showed too many problems.
[01:23] <Roey> ok
[01:23] <mmikowski> So these are alpha quality.
[01:23] <Roey> how would I run them?
[01:23] <Roey> and when?
[01:23] <Roey> at what point (before/after installation?)
[01:23] <mmikowski> They contain reference to creating a recovery partition that you actually do not want.
[01:24] <Roey> ok
[01:24] <Roey> i mean
[01:24] <mmikowski> This is in a README. Also included are links to documents.
[01:24] <Roey> again I have this uefi partition that I cannot /not/ install
[01:24] <Roey> ok
[01:25] <mmikowski> When you say your have a uefi partition you cannot install, what do you mean? Is it immutable or something?
[01:25] <Roey> I mean it's a laptop with UEFI
[01:26] <Roey> and as far as I understand, I need to keep that smal initial UEFI partition around
[01:26] <Roey> or somehtin glike that
[01:26] <Roey> otherwise it won't boot
[01:26] <mmikowski> Ah, that will be taken care of by the installer.
[01:26] <Roey> ok
[01:26] <Roey> do I do manual paritioning? automated partitioning?
[01:26] <mmikowski> You don't need to worry about it unless you are manually paritioning.
[01:27] <Roey> I want to nuke the win11 junk too
[01:27] <Roey> ok
[01:27] <mmikowski> Then you will need to create one.
[01:27] <Roey> create a uefi partition yhou mean?
[01:27] <Roey> ok
[01:27] <mmikowski> There is no need to worry about its contents.
[01:27] <Roey> ok
[01:27] <Roey> I don't even know what goes on in that small partition
[01:28] <mmikowski> If you try to use manual installation without adding a uefi partition it will prompted you to go back and add one.
[01:28] <mmikowski> Do not ignore that :)
[01:28] <Roey> ok
[01:28] <Roey> :)
[01:29] <mmikowski> Swap is not on BTRFS
[01:29] <Roey> oh?
[01:29] <Roey> er
[01:30] <Roey> yeah swap is not on btrfs.
[01:30] <Roey> I do want it on luks though
[01:30] <Roey> encrypted swap
[01:30] <Roey> if that is possible
[01:30] <mmikowski> right
[01:31] <Roey> so my setup would look like   UEFI-parition  ext4:/boot  [LUKS:  btrfs:/  btrfs:/home]
[01:31] <mmikowski> swap is separately encrypted
[01:31] <Roey> so my setup would look like   UEFI-parition  ext4:/boot  [LUKS:  btrfs:/  btrfs:/home  swap]
[01:31] <Roey> yeha
[01:36] <mmikowski> So I can sanitize this and send it along, but you'd be on your own here.
[01:36] <mmikowski> Hopefully it would give you good pointers.
[01:39] <mmikowski> So Roey, if you are into it, I have a bundle I can send somewhere with these scripts and a readme.
[01:39] <mmikowski> They are not publicly available.
[01:39] <mmikowski> As they were internal development only.
[01:40] <mmikowski> If you want it, how should I send you the file?
[01:42] <Roey> it's fine
[01:42] <Roey> I ant something that is usable
[01:42] <Roey> and tested
[01:42] <Roey> I don't undrestand how kubuntu doesn't have this available as an installation option
[01:44] <mmikowski> Interestingly, the original documents I used to develop the scripts have, in some cases, been removed(!)
[01:44] <mmikowski> Not mine, but others.
[01:44] <Roey> heh
[01:44] <Roey> ok so the
[01:44] <mmikowski> This, for example, doesn't appear available. He says it's moved, but when I go to the new site, it's not there: https://mutschler.eu/linux/install-guides/ubuntu-btrfs-20-04/
[01:45] <Roey> so I'm just left with the understanding that this isn't feasible
[01:45] <Roey> at all
[01:45] <Roey> I honestly cannot commit to bashrc-fu
[01:45] <mmikowski> It's feasible, just a lot of work and not supported.
[01:45] <Roey> I did a lot of that stuff in my 20s, now I just want stuff ot work
[01:45] <Roey> yeah it's he "lot of work" that bums me
[01:46] <mmikowski> Then I'd recommend then using LUKS + ext4 with BackInTime backups and apt-rollback.
[01:46] <Roey> and not supported.  You know where I was last in this position? trying to install XFS on /, on a 64-bit desktop, back in 2005.
[01:46] <Roey> ah
[01:46] <mmikowski> That's what we do with the Focus load out.
[01:46] <Roey> ok. is this supported?
[01:46] <Roey> does it work?
[01:46] <mmikowski> You can get that at https://kfocus.org/try
[01:46] <Roey> does it need a lot of work to make it go?
[01:46] <mmikowski> Yeah. It starts running BackInTime pre-configured out-of-the-box
[01:47] <mmikowski> It's even in the welcome wizard
[01:47] <Roey> ok
[01:47] <Roey> and on LUKS?
[01:47] <mmikowski> Yes, on LUKS
[01:47] <Roey> ok wonderful
[01:47] <Roey> I'll get Kubuntu Focus then
[01:48] <Roey> can I run a btrfs tool to convert the ext4 partition into BTRFS afterwards?
[01:48] <mmikowski> Super supported. Check out https://kfocus.org/wf/reinstall.html. There's also a page on backups: https://kfocus.org/wf/backup
[01:49] <mmikowski> Converting an ext4 parition to btrfs is possible, but you would need to destroy the data on the partition.
[01:49] <mmikowski> Also see https://kfocus.org/wf for lots of helpful articles.
[01:49] <Roey> ok
[01:50] <Roey> also with ext4 then what happens on bootup after an ungraceful reboot?
[01:50] <Roey> is it going to take 10 minutes to scan the disk?
[01:50] <arrayboltXE> ext4 generally recovers very well and very quickly after a hard shutdown, in my experience.
[01:50] <Roey> ok
[01:50] <Roey> oh,
[01:50] <Roey> When presented with the Installation Type, choose your preferred method. We use Guided - use entire disk for unencrypted disks and Guided - use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM for full-disk encryption. If you choose the latter, DO NOT FORGET THE PASSWORD YOU CREATE, as it cannot be recovered.
[01:50] <Roey> so is LVM the same as LUKS?
[01:50] <arrayboltXE> No, the two are different.
[01:50] <mmikowski> Failure modes are discussed here: https://kfocus.org/wf/recovery.html
[01:51] <mmikowski> Right. It's ext4 over LVM over LUKS
[01:51] <arrayboltXE> LVM is a special way of formatting a disk that has some advantages. LUKS is the encryption layer. Either one can be used independently of the other, or both can be used together (which is what the installer does).
[01:51] <Roey> ok
[01:51] <Roey> so LVM encryption under the 22.10 Kubuntu standard installer, that is not LUKS?
[01:52] <Roey> and is 22.04 means no 22.10?
[01:52] <mmikowski> Any encryption on Kubuntu is LUKS
[01:52] <Roey> and is wayland supported on Kubuntu Focus?
[01:52] <Roey> ok
[01:52] <Roey> mmikowski: so kubuntu's installer supports encyption over LVM
[01:52] <arrayboltXE> Wayland technically can be used, but I don't believe it's supported yet.
[01:52] <Roey> maybe that is LUKS
[01:52] <Roey> ok
[01:53] <mmikowski> Kubuntu Focus ISO is stock 22.04 with extra tools and a hardware configuration subsystem.
[01:53] <arrayboltXE> Roey: LVM and LUKS are entirely separate technologies. They can be used at the same time though.
[01:53] <mmikowski> Your system would be recognized as 'other'
[01:53] <Roey> ok
[01:53] <mmikowski> Wayland on 22.04 LTS has issues and is not recommended.
[01:53] <Roey> ok
[01:53] <Roey> brb..
[01:54] <mmikowski> However, the benefit of 22.04 LTS is that it is LTS.
[01:54] <mmikowski> Many 3rd-party solution are only supported on LTS releases.
[01:55] <mmikowski> You can see a review of KFocus 22.04 on https://kfocus.org/features/ by InfinitelyGalactic. It's a few videos down.
[01:55] <mmikowski> So if you want to try it, it's there. You would need to do more work for your hardware, but it might at least give some ideas of what a good setup might be for you.
[01:57] <mmikowski> kk Roey, I need to get back to work. I hope that is helpful.
[01:57] <mmikowski> arrayboltXE: Good to see you!
[01:58] <arrayboltXE> mmikowski: Good to see you too!
[01:58] <mmikowski> final note Roey: If you try the kfocus load-out, update the software and rerun the welcome wizard. That will then direct you to BackInTime and start it for you.
[01:59] <mmikowski> Thanks Aaron!
[01:59] <Roey> ok so
[01:59] <Roey> Kubuntu lets me do "use entire disk - LVM encryption"
[01:59] <mmikowski> Right
[01:59] <Roey> but then it proposes to use the <entire> ssd disk, no uefi partition
[01:59] <mmikowski> Just see the install link I provided.
[01:59] <Roey> fuck /me/ why is this such a bitch, it's 2023..
[01:59] <Roey> mmikowski: ok
[01:59] <mmikowski> It isn't.
[02:00] <mmikowski> It will add the uefi partition for you. It's just a few clicks.
[02:00] <Roey> automatically? ok
[02:00] <Roey> (regular kubuntu installer here, not the kubun tu focus one)
[02:00] <mmikowski> Yes. I've installed Windows 11 and Kubuntu 22.04. Trust me, the latter is FAR easier and faster.
[02:00] <mmikowski> The installer is the same.
[02:01] <mmikowski> In fact, the instruction link I provided will work almost completely with the stock Kubuntu 22.04.
[02:02] <mmikowski> Roey, nice to meet you. I gotta get bac, to building a kernel package :P
[02:02] <mmikowski> ^back
[02:02] <mmikowski> Best of luck!
[02:08] <Roey> thank you mmikowski!!
 hi guys. i couldn't find right subversion version for 22.04 LTS KDE plasma
[07:43] <karstenk> Is the service plasmashell influenced by docker builds and runs iam doing on my desktop?
[07:45] <karstenk> wondering that plasmashell takes much more CPU as the docker build itself, which is very slow
[12:49] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:52] <blake> what is this place
[12:53] <BluesKaj> kubuntu support
[16:14] <Roey> hello, any XP Pen users here?
[17:27] <fusion1181> I am having trouble with updates. It seems that for some reason grub-common and software-properties-common are not able to install due to dependancy issues. How would I go about resolving this issue?
[17:29] <fusion1181> A little bit of background. I have been running the system for about a year without any issues. During a recent update these failed to update. Usually I do updates using the Discovery app
[17:30] <oerheks> fusion1181, apt install -f # fixes things, also you might want to run apt dist-upgrade
[17:30] <oerheks> !distupgrade
[17:33] <fusion1181> dist-upgrade did fix the python3 packages but the grub-common grub-pc-bin grub-pc grub2-common report that they have been kept back
[17:33] <fusion1181> Is there a way to see more details about why it is held back?
[17:35] <oerheks> it could be phased updates
[17:35] <oerheks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Phasing
[17:36] <fusion1181> Ah... It reports that grub2-common requires grub-common 2.06-2ubuntu7 instead of the newer 2.06-2ubuntu7.1 so it does look like a phased update type of scenario
[17:37] <fusion1181> oerheks: thank you for your help :)
[17:38] <oerheks> have fun!