[02:39] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[08:19] <ice99> honestly, is there a trend to turn all packages into snap and deprecate apt at some point?
[09:10] <guiverc> ice99, I cannot see any such deb to snap move...  firefox was a mozilla request, telegram-desktop a telegram request... other snaps (chromium, some 16.04 ESM desktop apps  etc) are mostly as it reduces workload with security benefits thrown in...
[09:22] <ice99> guiverc, oh wow first time to know that mozilla is the one who requested that; well if they still provide deb for debian why they are lazy about ubuntu lol
[09:23] <guiverc> debian uses the firefox ESR, ie. less frequent re-packaging of firefox 
[09:24] <guiverc> (https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/firefox-esr) will be what's installed on my debian box... 
[09:38] <ice99> reported bugs for .04 releases get fixed faster than the .10 releases?
[09:40] <guiverc> All Ubuntu releases are stable & in my opinion (I have no special knowledge on this, just my experience) they're all treated equal.  If some releases are easier, they'll on average get fixed first (later releases usually), but it's not LTS vs non-LTS, nor .04 vs .10  (odd.year.04 = non-LTS anyway)
[13:45] <lotuspsychj3> (if needed for main) here's a new pro tut https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-pro-beta-tutorial/31018
[13:48] <lotuspsychj3> well new activity that is
[13:49] <ravage> i think !ubuntupro would be nice. link to that article and maybe the additional information to remove 20apt-esm-hook.conf to make all "ads" go away?
[13:49] <lotuspsychj3> agree ravage 
[13:50] <lotuspsychj3> with the upcoming wiki to discourse migrations, we might need more people working on the factoids aswell
[13:50] <lotuspsychj3> maybe like grant temp access to ubottu or something? 
[13:51] <ravage> i sure checking all old factoids and addins some new ones is a good idea yes
[13:51] <ravage> but i dont know who is in charhe of the bot :)
[13:52] <lotuspsychj3> well volunteers can suggest factoid changes, that will got the the ops channel, then be discussed there for allowance
[14:06] <ravage> !ubuntupro is <reply> Ubuntu Pro is a service offered by Canonical for expanded CVE patching, ten-years security maintenance and optional support. Anyone can use Ubuntu Pro for free on up to 5 machines. For details please see https://ubuntu.com/pro and https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-pro-beta-tutorial/31018
[14:07] <lotuspsychj3> great tnx ravage 
[14:21] <ravage> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-pro-beta-tutorial/31018/17
[15:22] <lotuspsychj3> ravage: he replied
[15:23] <ravage> yep
[15:23] <ravage> that is fine for the news but does not do anything about the apt hooks for package updates i think?
[15:25] <lotuspsychj3> not sure myself
[15:49] <ravage> thanks ogra :)
[15:49] <ogra> 🙂
[16:20] <ice99> is bug fixing priority for LTS and non-LTS is equivalent? 
[16:25] <ogra> well, a bug fix for an LTS *needs* to land in the devel release first, no matter if that will be LTS or not
[16:38] <ice99> ogra, so it start in the devel realease -> non-LTS (testing for a while) -> then LTS?
[16:38] <charafau[m]> ice99: I'd say that the trend is to make system immutable
[16:40] <ogra> ice99, well, if a bug is found in an LTS, you as the developer fixing it are required to land it in the dev release first ... but that dev release could be a future LTS once it is released ... so there is no distinction LTS vs. non-LTS
[16:41] <ogra> charafau[m], well, thats a bit different and just means you can not change the OS locally ... but will still get updates with fixes 
[16:41] <ogra> charafau[m], we have an immutable OS already .. called UbuntuCore ... 
[16:42] <charafau[m]> well... yes and no. snaps provide a way to install apps without changing system's internal libraries
[16:42] <ogra> right 
[16:43] <charafau[m]> + they're isolated, which opens a way for runtime permissions for applications
[16:43] <charafau[m]> wish more applications were using that
[16:44] <ogra> well, with 24.04 UbuntuCore will grow a desktop edition ... since there are only snaps supported on Core yu will eventually see more of them 😉
[16:45] <charafau[m]> I just hope performance will be good
[16:45] <charafau[m]> still 1 year to see that 
[16:45] <ogra> preformance of core is good enough to be used on industrial realtime HW since years 
[16:46] <charafau[m]> nice, I haven't used ubuntu core
[16:47] <ogra> yeah, it sadly doesnt have a lot of community users ... (for no apparent reason !! i use it everywhere in my house to control a lot of things) ...
[16:48] <ogra> but has been used commercially since 2015 in many different devices from medical over industrial to digital signage or point of sale systems ... even in automotive
[16:48] <charafau[m]> I am mainly desktop user - although I lately use mac because of work. my private laptop runs ubuntu
[16:48] <charafau[m]> I mean,  I know where it's used :)
[16:48] <charafau[m]> it's just me that is not using it :D
[16:49] <ogra> heh, yeah 
[16:51] <ogra> i have long been wanting to make some of my appliance images available i.e. my TV is attached to a Pi4 running UbuntuCore with kodi ... i run a captive portal on a Pi that guests in my wlan need to register through, i contol all my heatings in the house through a core bsed system and have a bunch of webcams around the house runing core 
[16:51] <ogra> we're just not good at marketing to bring it to a wider community audience ...
[17:06] <charafau[m]> it would be nice to have system for NAS
[19:20] <leftyfb> from https://ubuntu.com/pro  "Anyone can use Ubuntu Pro for free on up to 5 machines, or 50 if you are an official Ubuntu Community member."
[19:20] <leftyfb> I've been an Ubuntu member since 2008
[19:21] <leftyfb> my ubuntu.com/pro/dashboard only shows 5 machines
[19:21] <ravage> https://ubuntu.com/blog/the-new-ubuntu-membership-process
[19:25] <leftyfb> I just re-affirmed the CoC, but since it hasn't changed since 2005 and I have an /ubuntu/members/ cloak and @ubuntu email address, I assume I'm as much of a member as it gets 
[19:27] <ravage> im sure you have a contact to ask about it then. there is also https://discourse.ubuntu.com/c/community/membership/93
[19:28] <arraybolt3> I've not ever activated ESM despite being a member, lemme try it and see what happens...
[19:30] <arraybolt3> Hmm... it only says 5 for me too.
[19:30] <ravage> my guess is that there is no automated process to upgrade all accounts yet
[19:30] <arraybolt3> Probably someone has to go in and press the right button.
[19:31] <arraybolt3> I don't even use Ubuntu Pro so I probably won't bother having anyone go and press it for me, but I think ravage is right.
[20:02] <tomreyn> ravage: i feel that "Anyone can use Ubuntu Pro for free on up to 5 machines" (while it's an unmodified quote) is a bit misleading, because it also says "free for *personal* use" there.
[20:02] <tomreyn> (i'm referring to the suggested factoid)
[20:03] <arraybolt3> According to Ubuntu Pro's license, it looks like it's free for commercial use.
[20:03] <arraybolt3> And I believe I've seen it advertised as good for small-scale commercial use.
[20:04] <tomreyn> oh? i was quoting the weg page there. where would i find the license deed you're referring to?
[20:04] <arraybolt3> Lemme find it...
[20:05] <arraybolt3> tomreyn: https://ubuntu.com/legal/ubuntu-pro/personal
[20:06] <tomreyn> well this says "personal" in the url, too. isn't "personal" considered to the the opposite of "commercial" in licensing?
[20:06] <arraybolt3> Not only is commercial use not mentioned as prohibited, it's not even mentioned. What is mentioned is that if you're using the "personal" version for a company, you need to register the company for it (presumably so that the whole company gets five licenses, not five licenses per user).
[20:06] <arraybolt3> "You must not... use the Service for a company or legal entity without identifying the company or legal entity when registering for the Service and using your company or legal entity contact information in order to register.:
[20:06] <arraybolt3> s/:/"/
[20:09] <arraybolt3> IANAL, but I would think it would specifically mention commercial use as prohibited if it was prohibited, and that it probably wouldn't mention companies if commercial use was prohibited.
[20:11] <tomreyn> hmm, i'm not sure then. i agree that it does not seem to rule out commercial use in the text.
[20:12] <arraybolt3> Their blog actually mentions commercial use as allowed: https://ubuntu.com/blog/ubuntu-pro-beta-release
[20:12] <arraybolt3> "Canonical will provide a free tier for personal and **small-scale commercial use** in line with the company’s community commitment and mission to make open source more easily consumable by everyone."
[20:12] <tomreyn> maybe 'personal' really just means thst the licensee is a person, rather than a company or other organization
[20:13] <arraybolt3> But the license terms specify that if a company is enrolling, they should enroll as the company, not a person enrolling for them.
[20:14] <tomreyn> okay, i give up on attempting to interpret legalese for the day
[20:14] <tomreyn> thanks for looking it all up
[20:14] <arraybolt3> Glad to try to help, and also lol
[20:15] <arraybolt3> (I do have to say, I'm surprised how easy they made the Ubuntu Pro signup, I didn't have to even press a button to say, "Yes, enroll me in Ubuntu Pro", I just went to the dashboard and it already showed five licenses available for use.)
[22:02] <sarnold> ... and they'll eventually fix it, so ubuntu members show 50 licenses for use
[22:38] <ogra> weekly news !
[22:38] <Jeremy31> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue772
[22:40] <leftyfb> just to update on my issue: https://i.imgur.com/cQSrmO9.png  looks like I get 50, but they still say 5
[22:42] <ogra> heh ... i just saw an internal discussion with the UI team ... that didnt go unnoticed leftyfb ... might just take a bit 😉
[22:44] <sarnold> leftyfb: I filed https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu.com/issues/12453 for that
[22:44] -ubottu:#ubuntu-discuss- Issue 12453 in canonical/ubuntu.com "Free Pro personal token incorrect count for community members" [Open]
[22:45] <sarnold> I know it was pointed out a while back, ther emight be a better tracking issue somewhere with more work on it, but I didn't find it when I filed this :)
[22:45] <Jeremy31> probably inflation
[22:45] <sarnold> lol