[00:25] <arraybolt3> Would love input on this: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/lubuntu-and-the-flutter-based-subiquity-installer-personal-concerns-and-thoughts/33586
[00:27] <guiverc> we used calamares since 18.10 (first lxqt release)
[00:28] <arraybolt3> Thanks, will correct that.
[00:30] <guiverc> I've noted some graphic glitches on old hardware with the newer installer; but I've not tested it much  this cycle  (I may have also swapped out the nvidia card where I saw it most; I forget)
[00:32] <arraybolt3> @kc2bex: As I understood it, that was only for Ubuntu Core Desktop and variants, right?
[00:32] <guiverc> fyi:   as an installer is (ideally) only run once; the Qt/GTK mismatch doesn't worry me ; primarily a concern in regards requirements for installer to run (is the mismatch significant and thus a problem for lower-resource end-users?)
[00:33] <guiverc> arraybolt3, it was how it was stressed as I understood it (ubuntu core desktop), what my notes reflect anyway
[00:33] <arraybolt3> I figured as much, it's just probably something we'd want to get out of the way now while we're in the early stages, rather than finding out when there's a push to switch (if there's a push to switch). I *think* I was supposed to mention stuff on Discourse if it would take to long during the meeting?
[00:33] <arraybolt3> kc2bez: re the installer ^
[00:33] <guiverc> using the new installer is our choice (my understanding), no requirement to use it.
[00:35] <guiverc> (if there was a push, it was for those using `ubiquity` they want not to support; thus we're not impacted by that at all!)
[00:35] <arraybolt3> OK, that's good. Personally I think it would be *great* if we all used the same installer, and I know Simon said that yes, we would be interested in it.
[00:35] <guiverc> (and that push ^ does not impact 23.04)
[00:37] <arraybolt3> OK. I may have misunderstood some things then. I took stuff about "blocker" out of the post since if it's optional, there's not really anything that's being blocked.
[00:37] <arraybolt3> Glad I put the note that this was only my thoughts at the top :P
[00:51] <guiverc> arraybolt3, re: wallpaper images, given my recent reply on discourse to a thread; ... were you going to publish screenshots of lunar greeter & wallpaper? (sorry I forget)   OR want me or someone else to?  (given your our source).  I suggested waiting until they were on ISO & I think; ISOs are all good now re UID999 issue etc..) I believe
[00:53] <arraybolt3> guiverc: I intended to and then just forgot :P
[00:53] <arraybolt3> I'll get that done real quick. Desktop screenshot thread, right?
[00:54] <guiverc> yep.  greeter & wallpaper please :)    No hurry though; just when you can etc. 
[01:04] <arraybolt3> guiverc: Done, thanks for the reminder!
[01:06] <guiverc> Thank you arraybolt3 :)
[02:50] <kgiii> Speaking of installer, there was a PPA for a bit, is there any planned movement to a minimum install option? I see interest in such a thing fairly regularly, but not like so regularly that I'd call it a major priority...
[03:08] <arraybolt3> kgiii: At one point we were working on that and *just about* had it made, though this was way before I came on. I added it to the list here: https://notes.lubuntu.me/huOk59_iRSaAMZDl_my8bw?edit
[06:48] <arraybolt3> I apologize in advance if I'm not around a whole lot tomorrow. My dad managed to get his laptop hacked and so a lot of my time (and probably most of my Internet bandwidth during that time) is going to be spent on a Windows reinstall complete with Windows Update chaos and driver installation madness. :-/
[06:51] <guiverc> oh what fun arraybolt3 :(
[06:51] <arraybolt3> :P
[06:52] <arraybolt3> Thankfully I have the ISO downloaded and a Linux drive for recovering files already built, so it's possible that most of the work will just be waiting for the system to do its thing while I do other stuff. And I've been getting 2 and 4 MiB/s speeds so it might not be all that horrible. I guess we'll find out tomorrow after file recovery is complete.
[06:52] <arraybolt3> *speeds for my Internet
[08:00] <arraybolt3> Submitted a request for xdg-desktop-portal-lxqt to be added to the Lubuntu packageset, hopefully that will result in less overhead next time it needs an update or NCR.
[17:47] <arraybolt3> I assume the problem with PyQt5 causing regressions and *still* blocking qtbase-opensource-src is known?
[17:47] <arraybolt3> I think I saw something about that.
[17:47] <arraybolt3> What I'm not sure is how it would be fixed :P I don't know enough to know if this is a real, honest-to-goodness regression in PyQt or what.
[17:49] <arraybolt3> Where on earth even is PyQt's homepage?!
[17:49] <arraybolt3> Ah, found it. Finally.
[17:51] <arraybolt3> They seem to have only added a few missing components, so this is weird.
[17:52] <arraybolt3> Oh, because the news has an *incomplete* changelog looks like.
[17:58] <arraybolt3> Where on earth are l-u-n's autopkgtest rules even coming from?
[17:59] <arraybolt3> nvm, found them, I was on the Focal branch rather than Lunar :P
[18:12] <arraybolt3> Alright, looks like maybe the failed autopkgtests are a fluke? I can't reproduce them on my end.
[18:14] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: ALright, I believe I am ready for the next level of fighting with -proposed, how to retry autopkgtests. I don't know where the docs are on that, though I think the idea is I send some links to people with the right privileges and they do it for me.
[18:21] <kgiii> Thanks for the update @arraybolt3.
[18:47] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:libera.chat: https://autopkgtest-cloud.readthedocs.io/en/latest/architecture.html#test-request-format
[19:04] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: all-proposed! Perfect, thanks.
[19:05] <arraybolt3> Might let us help get PyQt5 a bit more unstuck.
[19:10] <tsimonq2> Don't use all-proposed unless you have to heh
[19:11] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: I could see that it had failed multiple times with only picking and choosing stuff and I had done a local test with "autopkgtest --apt-pocket=proposed=* -- schroot lunar-amd64-shm" which passed, so I thought it would make it unstick.
[19:14] <arraybolt3> "This is sometimes necessary when several packages need to land in lockstep but don’t declare versioned Depends:/Breaks: to each other, but might cause mis-blaming if some other package than the trigger got broken in -proposed." I think that's what's happening possibly, and I just tested locally so I don't think the mis-blame will happen. Still, I will keep that in mind for next time.
[19:17] <tsimonq2> What differences are there in packages being pulled in?
[19:17]  * arraybolt3 looks
[19:18] <arraybolt3> I can see that when pyqt/5.15.8 is added to the mix (with or without python3-defaults/3.11.1-0ubuntu1), the test borks. But when I did the above autopkgtest command, everything Just Worked, so... I assume what I probably should have done is figured out what packages needed to be in there too.
[19:18] <arraybolt3> (But vorlon already kicked off the test for me and I didn't realize that --all-proposed was an extreme measure so...)
[19:20] <arraybolt3> Ah, and it looks like the other thing that was part of the setup when it worked was... *drumroll* Qt 5.15.8. Shocker.
[19:21] <arraybolt3> And I see that at no point was the combo of PyQt 5.15.8 + Python 3.11 + Qt 5.15.8 was tried.
[19:41] <arraybolt3> OK so... somehow kde-config-updates is still getting in?
[19:41] <arraybolt3> No, it's not, but systemsettings still is!...
[19:42] <arraybolt3> Gah. Guess what recommends systemsettings. Bluedevil.
[19:45] <arraybolt3> So... our Bluetooth stack is the next offender in the list.
[19:45] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: ^
[19:50] <arraybolt3> My thoughts on this may be drastic, but I'm thinking we replace Bluedevil with Blueman. (Reasoning coming soon, but I have to go afk...)
[19:51] <arraybolt3> Reasoning:
[19:51] <arraybolt3> 1. At least one user on Discourse wanted a Bluetooth tray icon, which Bluedevil doesn't provide, but Blueman does.
[19:51] <arraybolt3> 2. We aren't all that thrilled with our current Bluetooth stack anyway.
[19:52] <arraybolt3> 3. We already have networking components in Lubuntu that are GNOME-based (the NetworkManager configuration thingy, I believe), and Bluetooth is networking-related, so this isn't that big of a change.
[19:52] <arraybolt3> 4. My previous experience with using Bluedevil on Lubuntu is bad - whereas I can usually do cool things like link two computers so I can play audio from one out the other, Lubuntu wouldn't do that. I suspect Blueman may fix that.
[19:53] <arraybolt3> 5. I hate Bluedevil's name. :P
[19:54] <arraybolt3> Also, 6. Bluedevil looks like it legitimately recommends systemsettings as it uses it as part of how you configure Bluetooth. Trying to demote systemsettings to a Suggests there may be detrimental.
[20:40] <arraybolt3> XScreenSaver in Debian is rescued! \o/
[21:05] <arraybolt3> New todo list option - write a version of apt-cacher-ng that actually works.
[21:05] <arraybolt3> s/option/item/
 Bluedevil shines with the plasma plasmoid which we don't have. Blueman is great but is GTK. Debian and LXQt recommend conman which is gross and problematic.
[23:07] <arraybolt3> Hmm... Blueman wants to remove pipewire-alsa for goodness-knows-why.
[23:08] <arraybolt3> Which we know breaks audio in weird ways since we had to put it there in the first place to get audio working right.
[23:08] <arraybolt3> Oh, lol, because it Depends on Pulseaudio.
[23:08] <arraybolt3> Er, no, it Recommends pulseaudio-module-bluetooth.
[23:09] <arraybolt3> If I skip the recommends, it's compatible.
[23:11] <arraybolt3> I'll test it out on a system with Bluetooth, it actually doesn't look that out-of-place in my initial testing.