[00:48] <Roey> hello
[00:48] <Roey> I couldn't boot my old laptop using a Kubuntu 22.10 ISO boot USB stick, but when I put Arch Linux  2023.02.01 on that USB stick, it /did/ boot...
[00:48] <Roey> why the differnece?
[00:49] <Roey> with Kubuntu on the USB stick, BIOS hangs with "No operation system found"
[00:49] <Roey> (dell inspiron 14z nv11 from circa 2012)
[00:51] <arraybolt3> If I were to guess, it's probably that your BIOS isn't coping well with Kubuntu's use of a GPT partition table. (I remember all our previous installation attempts failed even though Kubuntu should be BIOS-compatible). This may be a silly solution, but Lubuntu still uses a traditional MBR partition table when you install it. Perhaps you could install Lubuntu, then install the kubuntu-desktop
[00:51] <arraybolt3> package on top? Then you would have LXQt and KDE desktop environments that you could switch between.
[00:55] <Roey> arraybolt3: hrm.
[00:55] <Roey> btw what is lubuntu
[00:55] <Roey> lxde??
[00:55] <Roey> lxqt* rather
[00:55] <Roey> oh, I see.
[00:55] <Roey> aarramaybe I can install ubuntu and install kde desktop, then?
[00:56] <Roey> arraybolt3: ^
[00:57] <arraybolt3> Roey: Ubuntu or Lubuntu?
[00:57] <arraybolt3> Ubuntu Desktop will use the same partition setup as Kubuntu, which appears to not work.
[00:58] <arraybolt3> Lubuntu uses a different partition layout and may work.
[00:58] <arraybolt3> Once you install Lubuntu, then yes, you can install KDE on top of that.
[00:58] <Roey> arraybolt3: ohhhh ok, got it.
[00:58] <Roey> right right
[00:58] <arraybolt3> https://lubuntu.me/ is the official website.
[00:58] <Roey> I am downloading Lubuntu 22.10 now
[00:58] <Roey> yeah that's where I am downloading it from, lubuntu.me
[00:58] <arraybolt3> +1
[00:59] <guiverc[m]> FYI:  You can install multiple desktops/flavors on a single install, but there can be complications to that  (sorry I've not followed the whole discussion, saw the Ubuntu & install KDE desktop question... that's possible yes)
[00:59] <Roey> complicatoins how so?
[00:59] <Roey> would they contravene what arraybolt3 suggests?
[00:59] <arraybolt3> Sometimes mutliple DEs can end up not working so well together - mostly I've heard of this happening with GNOME and KDE together.
[01:00] <arraybolt3> LXQt and KDE, not sure, though I think it will probably work.
[01:00] <Roey> ok
[01:00] <Roey> hrm.  what if I want to try out Wayland, too?
[01:01] <arraybolt3> Wayland works best with GNOME, other environments with Wayland are either somewhat limited or don't work very well.
[01:01] <arraybolt3> (KDE *does* have a Wayland version, but it's still experimental and in development.)
[01:02] <arraybolt3> If you really, really wanted to try it, though, I don't see why it would conflict with a normal install of KDE or with LXQt.
[01:02] <arraybolt3> I just don't recommend Wayland anything since it tends to be disappointing or problematic.
[01:02] <arraybolt3> (In my experience.)
[01:03] <guiverc[m]> Roey: I'm not sure what you're asking an opinion to (what arraybolt3 said), but if you have only 2 flavors installed problems are rare; 3 a little less so, once you get 4 or more problems can be expected where they interfere with each other; settings are harder to align etc.. AND the issues can vary from release to release, so if I gave suggestions for 22.04, they may not match a 22.10 install.. (and what release you installed on & history
[01:03] <guiverc[m]> can also impact it, not just what you're running now)...   I wrote an answer on askubu but didn't find it to paste sorry
[01:05] <Roey> ok. well thank you guiverc
[01:05] <Roey> I'm downloading lubuntu now
[01:05] <Roey> will try installign it.
[01:06] <Roey> let's see if the laptop can even boot from a lubuntu iso usb
[01:06] <guiverc[m]> FYI:  I have used Ubuntu Desktop (GNOME) & Kubuntu (KDE Plasma) on the same install without issue; but not recently..  I do have Lubuntu (LXQt) installs that also have Kubuntu (KDE Plasma) installed too...
[01:06] <Roey> I'm using the following command to install it to the USB stick, btw: sudo dd bs=4M if=/home/roey/tmp/lubuntu-22.10-desktop-amd64.iso  of=/dev/sdd conv=fsync oflag=direct status=progress
[01:06]  * guiverc just discovers I can use IRC; I didn't realize it was this room so thanks Roey 
[01:07] <Roey> guiverc: oh cool :)
[01:07] <Roey> yeah this is a nice place ;)
[01:07] <Roey> swanky and all
[01:10] <Roey> ok
[01:10] <Roey> arraybolt3: so the laptop does not appear to boot off a Lubuntu 22.10 USB stick either
[01:10] <Roey> only archlinux USB stick
[01:10] <guiverc> & no I don't see any issues with what arraybolt3 said ^
[01:10] <Roey> ok
[01:11] <Roey> what is the (f****ing) differnece between archlinux's and kubuntu/lubuntu's ISO image such that the laptop boots off of arch's and says "operation system not found" for the other?
[01:11] <guiverc> All Ubuntu ISOs are built using the same procudures (& by Ubuntu I include flavors like Lubuntu/Kubuntu/...) so its rare that one boots & others don't (differences like that are usually it started booting & then stopped due to config issue during loading, not the boot)
[01:11] <guiverc> for the same release that last statement assumes
[01:12] <Roey> guiverc: ok.
[01:13] <guiverc> Ubuntu ISOs are built for multiple architectures; and from 20.10 & later an effort is made so they all boot the same way; thus there can be differences between say 20.10, 21.04, 21.10, 22.04, 22.10, but it's the same for amd64, arm64, s390x, ppc64el, etc for a given release.
[01:13] <Roey> ok
[01:13] <guiverc> I have no idea what architectures ARCH builds for...
[01:13] <Roey> well uefi or bios
[01:13] <Roey> I mean.
[01:14] <Roey> my old laptop has bios, not uefi
[01:14] <arraybolt3> Roey: Wait, weren't you able to get Kubuntu's ISO to boot in the past, it was the installed system that wouldn't boot?
[01:14] <arraybolt3> (Arch Linux still uses ISOLINUX on BIOS systems, I believe, while Ubuntu recently transitioned to using GRUB, which was supposed to *help* things, sadly it looks like it may have messed things up here?)
[01:14] <Roey> arraybolt3: I had installed with via CD/DVD in the past
[01:15] <arraybolt3> Oh.
[01:15] <Roey> it boots off of DVD fine.
[01:15] <arraybolt3> ...ok that is seriously weird.
[01:15] <arraybolt3> Well... are you up for trying a really weird way of creating a bootable USB drive?
[01:15] <Roey> lol ok
[01:15] <Roey> what's the idea?
[01:16] <arraybolt3> Basically, rather than just DDing the whole ISO to the drive...
[01:16] <arraybolt3> ...instead we'll copy all the files from within the ISO onto the drive, then install the GRUB bootloader ourselves.
[01:16] <arraybolt3> This will result in everything being in an ext4 partition rather than an ISO9660 partition.
[01:16] <arraybolt3> And it may improve the situation.
[01:16] <Roey> hrm
[01:17] <arraybolt3> So basically, take the USB, format it, mount the ISO, copy everything inside, then grub-install the bootloader onto the USB drive.
[01:17] <Roey> btw the .iso of hte kubuntu 22.10, it has all these parttions on it
[01:17] <arraybolt3> This is easiest to do from a fully functional Linux distro.
[01:17] <Roey> my laptop's bios doesn' tlike that
[01:17] <Roey> it can't boot off it.
[01:18] <arraybolt3> Yeah, that might be the problem. We'll only have one partition with this setup.
[01:20] <Roey> ok.
[01:21] <Roey> ewll
[01:21] <Roey> swap partition
[01:21] <Roey> and a partition for / /boot /home
[01:21] <Roey> right?
[01:21] <arraybolt3> We're just making a bootable USB to install from.
[01:21] <Roey> ok
[01:21] <Roey> how we gonna do this?
[01:21] <arraybolt3> So no, for this particular setup, we want an MBR partition table with exactly one ext4 partition swallowing the whole drive.
[01:21] <Roey> riught
[01:21] <arraybolt3> You're booted into Arch right now?
[01:21] <Roey> *right
[01:21] <Roey> I am, y es.
[01:21] <Roey> *yes
[01:22] <arraybolt3> OK. Let's see if I can do this...
[01:22] <arraybolt3> ...does fdisk exist on the drive?
[01:23] <arraybolt3> Like, does "fdisk -l" do anything?
[01:23] <arraybolt3> Also, do you have a blank USB drive that you can put the Lubuntu system on?
[01:23] <arraybolt3> *Lubuntu ISO, I mean
[01:23] <Roey> hrm.
[01:24] <Roey> yeah
[01:24] <Roey> fdisk -l shows /dev/sda1  1 MB BIOS boot
[01:24] <Roey> /dev/sda2 513M EFI System
[01:24] <Roey> /dev/sda3 1.7G Linux filesystem
[01:24] <arraybolt3> OK.
[01:24] <Roey> /dev/sda4 929.3G Linux filesystem
[01:24] <arraybolt3> That's all I need to know.
[01:24] <Roey> oh it still created that darned EFI filesystem? jeez
[01:25] <arraybolt3> I just wanted to know if the tool existed.
[01:25] <Roey> (this was the installation I did from the DVD of Kubuntu 22.10)
[01:25] <Roey> ok
[01:25] <Roey> yeah
[01:25] <Roey> I have kubuntu 22.10 on a 4GB USB stick as well
[01:25] <arraybolt3> OK. Plug in a blank USB drive (or one you can afford to wipe), then "lsblk | nc termbin.com 9999" and send the link.
[01:27] <Roey> on the laptop you mean?
[01:27] <arraybolt3> Yes.
[01:28] <Roey> er it is not conncetd to internet apparently
[01:29] <arraybolt3> Ugh, right, because this is Arch. Uhh...
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sda1  1M partition
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sda2  13M partition
[01:29] <arraybolt3> Hold on, don't paste or type things into chat please.
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sda3  1.7G partition
[01:29] <arraybolt3> (That doesn't help me.)
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sda4 929.3G partition
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sdb 57.8G disk
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sdb1 2.7GB partition
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sdb2 4.2MB partition
[01:29] <arraybolt3> You only have a WiFi connection, I'm guessing?
[01:29] <Roey> /dev/sdb3  300k  partition
[01:30] <Roey> oh it's connected via ethernet as well.
[01:30] <Roey> anyway I just dumped for you the info it printed
[01:30] <arraybolt3> that can't possibly be all of it, one of them is your Arch Linux USB stick and the other one is your internal hard drive, where's the blank drive?
[01:30] <arraybolt3> Also, what does "ping google.com" do?
[01:30] <Roey> i took out the arch linux usb sick
[01:31] <arraybolt3> Oh... ok so wait...
[01:31] <Roey> and replaced it with the kubuntu stick
[01:31] <arraybolt3> ...did you boot Arch from the installer USB or did you install it and are now booted from the installed system?
[01:31] <Roey> I booted from the Arch stick, then took out hte arch stick and put in the Kubuntu stick
[01:31] <Roey> I think it copied everything to ram
[01:31] <Roey> on booting.
[01:32] <arraybolt3> Hmm... well we can hope so :P
[01:32] <Roey> I can reboot with both plugged in, just to prevent from confusing it.
[01:32] <Roey> ;)
[01:32] <arraybolt3> Can you ping google.com?
[01:32] <arraybolt3> Or, possibly more importantly, do you have a copy of the Lubuntu ISO on the hard drive already?
[01:32] <Roey> I have  acopy of kubuntu 22.10 on the hard drive
[01:32] <Roey> that it installed from DVD
[01:33] <arraybolt3> Right. But we need the Lubuntu ISO so that we can put it on the USB drive.
[01:33] <arraybolt3> So where is the Lubuntu ISO? Or are we going to need to download it?
[01:34] <Roey> er sorry I meant Lubuntu not Kubuun tu
[01:34] <Roey> I overwrote Kubuntu with Lubuntu.
[01:34] <arraybolt3> Oh. So you have a Lubuntu ISO somewhere (probably in /home/roey/tmp) that we'll be able to mount and access?
[01:35] <arraybolt3> If so, we can probably just proceed to making the bootable USB.
[01:35] <Roey> yeah I can probably mount it.
[01:35] <arraybolt3> OK. Try mounting it and see if we can look at the files inside.
[01:36] <Roey> yeah I ran mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt
[01:36] <Roey> shows "EFI boot boot.catalog casper dists install md5sum.txt pool preseed ubuntu"
[01:37] <arraybolt3> OK, nice.
[01:37] <arraybolt3> Alright, run "fdisk /dev/sdb".
[01:38] <Roey> ok
[01:38] <Roey> Command (m for help):
[01:38] <arraybolt3> Oh... dear, hold on, you're reading the ISO files directly from the USB that we're about to format. That won't work.
[01:38] <arraybolt3> The moment we format the USB so we can make it bootable a different way, we're going to end up wiping all of the files from it.
[01:38] <Roey> hrm
[01:39] <Roey> right
[01:39] <Roey> btw
[01:39] <Roey> I cna probably put the old hard drive in a usb3 enclosure and boot off that
[01:39] <Roey> since i got the enclosure  afew days ago
[01:39] <Roey> for this purpose.
[01:39] <arraybolt3> OK, that would likely work.
[01:39] <arraybolt3> Then we can format that as the bootable USB drive.
[01:40] <Roey> er not that hard drive
[01:40] <Roey> that has my old data
[01:40] <Roey> hehe
[01:40] <arraybolt3> Oh lol nevermind bad idea
[01:41] <arraybolt3> Hold on just a bit, I have to do something real quick, I'll be right back. In the mean time, if you can get your system to a point where you have a flash drive you can format and the ISO you can mount, that would be fantastic.
[01:43] <Roey> ok
[01:45] <arraybolt3> Alright, I'm back, thanks for your patience.
[01:59] <Roey> arraybolt3: ok fantastic
[01:59] <Roey> it's booting off the hard drive that's now in a usb3 enclosure
[01:59] <arraybolt3> \o/
[02:00] <Roey> :) :)
[02:03] <Roey> arraybolt3: ok, I'm finally in my laptop again
[02:03] <Roey> albeit. on the hard drive.
[02:05] <arraybolt3> Nice. OK, can you download the Lubuntu ISO again? That way we can turn the Lubuntu flash drive into a (hopefully working) Lubuntu flash drive and keep the alread-working Arch drive intact. (This isn't necessary if you're on a metered connection.)
[02:05] <Roey> ok.
[02:05] <Roey> I'll download it on to the laptop.
[02:07] <Roey> doing that now in fact.
[02:08] <Roey> lubuntu 22.10
[02:10] <arraybolt3> While it's downloading, we can be formatting the USB drive.
[02:10] <Roey> do we even need the usb drive at this point
[02:10] <Roey> cna't we just insall it from the HD/usb3 enclosure -> SDD in the laptop?
[02:11] <arraybolt3> ...technically (and by that I mean "lots of technical stuff involved in that") yes, that would be possible, but that would be extremely advanced and probably not something that you (or I) want to tackle at this point.
[02:12] <arraybolt3> With Linux, almost anything is possible, but possible does not always equal easy :P
[02:12] <Roey> hrm ok
[02:12] <arraybolt3> It will be far easier to set up a USB drive and boot from that, than to try to "chainload" the ISO file directly and use it to install.
[02:12] <Roey> well yes that I have seen ;)
[02:12] <Roey> ok
[02:13] <Roey> hard this at Starbucks today (in rockville, md): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sABVNz31WA0
[02:13] <Roey> heard*
[02:21] <arraybolt3> Roey: Do you have the USB and/or the ISO yet?
[02:22] <arraybolt3> (Just checking in so that I'm not leaving you behind.)
[02:23] <Roey> arraybolt3: yes I do have it downloaded
[02:25] <arraybolt3> OK, one moment, brb...
[02:27] <Roey> brb phone
[02:39] <arraybolt3> OK, back.
[02:57] <Roey> arraybolt3: back
[03:09] <arraybolt3> o/
[03:09] <arraybolt3> Roey: Alright, do you have the USB drive plugged in and ready to format?
[03:22] <Roey> yes.
[03:23] <Roey> arraybolt3: yes I do.
[03:24] <arraybolt3> OK.
[03:24] <arraybolt3> So... do you happen to have KDE Partition Manager available? Because if so, this is going to be a lot easier.
[03:25] <Roey> yes.
[03:25] <arraybolt3> OK, open it.
[03:25] <Roey> yeah
[03:25] <Roey> done
[03:25] <arraybolt3> Once you're in (after typing your password), select your USB drive, click "New Partition Table", select MBR as the partition table type, and then "Create New Partition Table".
[03:26] <arraybolt3> Then right-click on the unallocated space on the drive, and click "New" in the menu that pops up.
[03:26] <arraybolt3> Then select ext4 as the partition type, leave the rest of the settings at their defaults, and create the partition.
[03:26] <Roey> choose the type of parititon tbale yopu want to create
[03:26] <Roey> GPT
[03:26] <Roey> MS-DOS
[03:26] <arraybolt3> MS-DOS.
[03:26] <Roey> ok
[03:26] <Roey> ok
[03:26] <Roey> done
[03:27] <arraybolt3> Then right-click on the unallocated space on the drive, and click "New" in the menu that pops up.
[03:27] <Roey> ok
[03:27] <Roey> done
[03:27] <arraybolt3> Then select ext4 as the partition type, leave the rest of the settings at their defaults, and create the partition.
[03:27] <Roey> done
[03:27] <arraybolt3> Then you should be able to click "Apply" and apply the changes.
[03:28] <Roey> k 0% done.
[03:28] <Roey> why did it stall
[03:28] <Roey> it's oh now it's all done
[03:29] <arraybolt3> Roey: Nice. OK, now let's open Konsole.
[03:29] <arraybolt3> (You can close the partition manager window.)
[03:29] <Roey> .k
[03:29] <Roey> ok at konsole now
[03:30] <arraybolt3> Alright, do 'lsblk' so you can determine which drive is your flash drive, then "sudo mkdir /bootDrv && sudo mount /dev/sdX1 /bootDrv", replacing sdX1 with the partition on your flash drive.
[03:31] <Roey> /dev/sdd is the flash drive
[03:31] <arraybolt3> Nice, then "sudo mkdir /bootDrv && sudo mount /dev/sdd1 /bootDrv"
[03:31] <Roey> ok done
[03:31] <arraybolt3> OK, now mount the Lubuntu ISO file to /mnt.
[03:32] <Roey> ok
[03:32] <Roey> done
[03:33] <arraybolt3> Next, "sudo cp -R /mnt/. /bootDrv" (note that every character is important, including the odd-looking /. at the end of /mnt/.)
[03:33] <arraybolt3> (The quotes can be omitted as usual though.)
[03:34] <arraybolt3> This command will probably take a while to run, since it's copying the ISOs contents to the flash drive.
[03:34] <Roey> ok it's doing that now.
[03:34] <Roey> didn't know you can intall it thatway, to an ext4 partition
[03:34] <Roey> thought you'd have to dd if=lubuntu.iso of=/dev/sdd
[03:34] <arraybolt3> It's a bit hacky, but it works (or at least it did work last I tried).
[03:34] <Roey> but ok
[03:35] <Roey> but yeah I see what we are doing
[03:35] <arraybolt3> The idea is this lets us use a different partitioning method that might work better with your particular computer's BIOS.
[03:35] <Roey> yes
[03:35] <arraybolt3> And since we already have a grub.cfg file on the ISO conveniently enough, all we have to do after this is install the GRUB bootloader itself and everything else should just work.
[03:35] <Roey> (also, from there, how will we make the sdd bootable?)
[03:35] <Roey> ah ok
[03:35] <Roey> got it
[03:38] <Roey> ok it finished.
[03:38] <Roey> should i run sync just to make sure
[03:38] <Roey> looks like the usb drive is still writing
[03:38] <Roey> even though the command finished
[03:39] <Roey> yeah atop still shows it writing to /dev/sdd
[03:39] <Roey> even though the cp command finished
[03:39] <arraybolt3> Probably don't need to run sync *yet*, though we will want to before we're done.
[03:39] <arraybolt3> There's no harm in running it now though.
[03:39] <Roey> ok
[03:40] <Roey> how is i still copying even though the command returned??
[03:40] <arraybolt3> Disk caching.
[03:40] <Roey> riiiiight
[03:40] <Roey> ok
[03:40] <Roey> makes sense.
[03:40] <arraybolt3> OK, one moment while I look up how to do the next command...
[03:40] <Roey> yes
[03:40] <Roey> ooh ok now it's done writing to /dev/sdd.
[03:41] <arraybolt3> sudo grub-install --boot-directory=/bootDrv/boot /dev/sdd
[03:41] <arraybolt3> (Yes, it is just /dev/sdd, **not** /dev/sdd1.)
[03:41] <Roey> ok
[03:41] <Roey> can I run sync
[03:41] <Roey> first?
[03:41] <arraybolt3> Sure.
[03:41] <Roey> ok that finished too.
[03:42] <Roey> so I'm executing hte command you just gve me above
[03:42] <Roey> ok it's doing that now.
[03:42] <Roey> i finished.
[03:43] <Roey> *it finished.
[03:43] <arraybolt3> Very nice. Now, "sudo umount /dev/sdd1"
[03:43] <Roey> ok
[03:43] <arraybolt3> And now one last "sync" just to be sure.
[03:43] <Roey> ok
[03:43] <Roey> yep
[03:43] <arraybolt3> Now you can unplug the drive, shut the system down, and then try to boot from it.
[03:43] <arraybolt3> *boot from the USB drive
[03:43] <Roey> ok, one moment.
[03:44] <Roey> AAAAAAH
[03:44] <Roey> ok
[03:45] <Roey> I see the GRUB menu, arraybolt3
[03:45] <Roey> so "Try or Install Lubuntu", yes?
[03:45] <Roey> I chose that.
[03:45] <arraybolt3> Yes!
[03:45] <arraybolt3> WOOHOO IT WORKED
[03:45] <Roey> :))))))0
[03:46]  * arraybolt3 is really happy to hear that something finally worked
[03:46] <Roey> yeah the grpahics are starting up
[03:46] <Roey> p[owered by lubuntu
[03:46] <Roey> er
[03:46] <Roey> unable to read ROB block 8
[03:46] <neosin>  that ts was fun to watch
[03:46] <Roey> but there's now a mouse curor.
[03:46] <Roey> it'sooh and now i have the lxqt desktop in front of me.
[03:46] <Roey> wonderful.
[03:47] <arraybolt3> OK, if that worked, the installation itself is almost certain to work, since we now are pretty sure that MBR + GRUB = happy laptop.
[03:47] <Roey> ok :)
[03:48] <arraybolt3> Also there's an option to encrypt the partition if you want, and you might find that the Calamares installer in Lubuntu makes LUKS+BTRFS easy :)
[03:48] <Roey> so I just opened up qterminal.
[03:48] <Roey> oh so you suggest installing it?
[03:48] <Roey> instead of using grub to fix the existing installation?
[03:48] <arraybolt3> Correct.
[03:48] <Roey> ok
[03:48] <arraybolt3> The existing installation uses GPT, which didn't work.
[03:48] <arraybolt3> We tried using GRUB to fix it which still failed.
[03:48] <Roey> ok.
[03:49] <Roey> so how will installing it through Lubuntu make this any different?
[03:49] <arraybolt3> Lubuntu installs with an MBR partition table instead which is more likely to work, and then you can add kubuntu-desktop to your Lubuntu installation and have a Kubuntu+Lubuntu installation.
[03:49] <Roey> it won't use the same scheme?
[03:49] <Roey> ok
[03:49] <arraybolt3> True.
[03:49] <Roey> ok.
[03:49] <arraybolt3> It uses a different installer and a different scheme.
[03:49] <arraybolt3> (Technically it would have been possible to use debootstrap to manually install Kubuntu with a good scheme, but that is... very difficult.)
[03:50] <arraybolt3> (Installing Lubuntu normally and then adding Kubuntu's packages on top should be far easier.)
[03:50] <Roey> hrm.
[03:50] <Roey> "this system is not connceted to the Intenet".
[03:50] <Roey> what'sthe syntax for the "ip" command to show the current ip address?
[03:50] <Roey> it's connected via ethernet
[03:51] <Roey> it connected fine wwhen it was booted to the external hard drive
[03:51] <arraybolt3> Uh... "ip addr"
[03:52] <arraybolt3> But that's a bit concerning, if you unplug and replug your Ethernet cable what happens?
[03:52] <Roey> yeah it shows no ip
[03:52] <Roey> "i'm used to ifconfig"
[03:52] <Roey> (I'm used to ifconfig)
[03:52] <Roey> I tried unplugging and replugging
[03:52] <Roey> yeh.
[03:53] <arraybolt3> Hrm... can you do "lspci", then find your Ethernet adapter in the list of devices and send its info?
[03:53] <Roey> QUalcomm Ahteros AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet (rev c1)
[03:54] <Roey> Qualcomm Atheros AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet (rev c1)
[03:54] <arraybolt3> OK, lemme do some digging...
[03:55] <Roey> k
[03:55] <Roey> I mean i can probably connect it via wireless
[03:55] <arraybolt3> Does "ip addr" show an "eno0" or "eth0" device or something?
[03:55] <arraybolt3> Or do you only see your wireless adapter (wlpwhatever) and lo?
[03:55] <Roey> ok I connected it
[03:56] <Roey> ip addr shows
[03:56] <Roey> lo:
[03:56] <Roey> and enp4s0:
[03:56] <Roey> and wlp2s0:
[03:56] <Roey> that's what it shows.
[03:56] <arraybolt3> enp4s0, ok so your Ethernet device is recognized.
[03:56] <Roey> for enp4s0: it doesn't show anything jin terms of ip address
[03:56] <arraybolt3> But it doesn't have an IP...
[03:56] <Roey> it shows "DOWN"
[03:56] <arraybolt3> Oh, OK, that might be fixable.
[03:56] <Roey> mtu 1500 qdlsc pfifo_fast state DOWN group default qlen 1000
[03:57] <Roey> link/ether 84:8f:69:b7:80:4a brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
[03:57] <Roey> but I'm connected via wifi now.
[03:57] <arraybolt3> OK. Maybe we should fight with the Ethernet driver later.
[03:57] <Roey> right.
[03:58] <Roey> re-started the installer.
[03:58] <Roey> which partitioning to use?
[03:58] <Roey> Manual? Repla ce a partition? Erase disk?
[03:58] <Roey> *"Replace a partition?"
[03:58] <arraybolt3> You could just use "Erase disk", then check the "Encrypt system" checkbox and add a password.
[03:58] <arraybolt3> That would be the quickest way.
[03:59] <arraybolt3> If you want BTRFS though, manual partitioning would be the way to go.
[03:59] <Roey> yes I do want btrfs.
[03:59] <arraybolt3> OK, then lets do manual partitioning.
[03:59] <Roey> I mean
[03:59] <Roey> well I can convert an ext4 to btrfs later, right?
[03:59] <arraybolt3> Bear with me while I pop open a VM to get this right.
[03:59] <Roey> k
[03:59] <Roey> oh also......
[03:59] <Roey> on the left it has "BIOS
[03:59] <arraybolt3> Roey: Not that I'm aware of, if you can that sounds dangerous.
[03:59] <Roey> and hten "select a storage degice" with a drop-down.
[03:59] <Roey> and then to the right of that it says "GPT"
[04:00] <arraybolt3> OK, just ignore that for now and bear with me.
[04:00] <Roey> like, is it leting me choose between BIOS and GPT?
[04:00] <Roey> ok
[04:00] <arraybolt3> BIOS is a firmware type, as opposed to UEFI. GPT i sa partition table type, as opposed to MBR/MS-DOS.
[04:00] <Roey> manual partitioning it is.
[04:00] <arraybolt3> BIOS+MBR work best together.
[04:00] <arraybolt3> UEFI+GPT work best together.
[04:00] <Roey> ok
[04:00] <Roey> yes understood.  I just wans' taware if it was giving me a choice between the two
[04:01] <Roey> *wasn't aware
[04:01] <arraybolt3> OK, so at the manual partitioning screen, make sure your internal hard drive is selected.
[04:01] <arraybolt3> (You can select it with a dropdown menu at the top of the screen.)
[04:01] <Roey> yep
[04:01] <arraybolt3> OK, "New Partition Table".
[04:01] <arraybolt3> Select "Master Boot Record (MBR)".
[04:01] <arraybolt3> Then OK.
[04:01] <Roey> ok
[04:01] <Roey> it's aksing me to choose between MBR or GPT
[04:02] <Roey> I will choose MBR
[04:02] <Roey> done.
[04:02] <arraybolt3> OK, one moment...
[04:02] <arraybolt3> OK, click on "Free Space", and click "Create".
[04:02] <Roey> ok
[04:03] <arraybolt3> Now... ok so you wanted a separate home and root partition, right?
[04:03] <arraybolt3> (We don't need a separate /boot with Lubuntu since it supports encrypted /boot.)
[04:03] <Roey> k
[04:04] <Roey> I mean I don't care for separate home and root
[04:04] <Roey> it's btrfs
[04:04] <Roey> they'll be subvcolumes
[04:04] <arraybolt3> OK. And I think Lubuntu even does set up some subvolumes for you.
[04:04] <arraybolt3> So select "btrfs" in the File System box.
[04:04] <Roey> k
[04:04] <arraybolt3> Then check "Encrypt".
[04:04] <arraybolt3> Enter your passphrase (and be sure that this is a passphrase you will never forget or all hope is lost :D)
[04:04] <Roey> ok
[04:05] <Roey> done
[04:05] <Roey> mount point?
[04:05] <arraybolt3> Nice, now set / at the mount opint.
[04:05] <Roey> FS labe? flags?
[04:05] <arraybolt3> *point
[04:05] <arraybolt3> No FS label needed, but you will want to set the boot flag.
[04:05] <Roey> ok
[04:05] <Roey> ok
[04:05] <arraybolt3> And now "Next".
[04:05] <Roey> (wow, I thought btrfs had an issue being encrypted though, like when we tried last time?)
[04:05] <arraybolt3> At this point it will gripe about GPT and MBR stuff.
[04:06] <Roey> k
[04:06] <arraybolt3> Just click OK and ignore its griping.
[04:06] <Roey> oh it's griping now
[04:06] <Roey> ok
[04:06] <arraybolt3> (BTRFS had an issue being encrypted because Kubuntu's installer isn't very powerful.)
[04:07] <arraybolt3> (As for possible failure of the partition, that I do not know for sure why it happened, but making the setup should work at least.
[04:07] <Roey> ok
[04:07] <Roey> so now just install?
[04:07] <arraybolt3> OK, now you should be able to put in your user details. Personally I'd use your encryption passphrase as your password as well, and enable autologin since you're going to have to type your password to unlock the computer anyway.
[04:07] <arraybolt3> But that's up to you.
[04:07] <Roey> oh autologin.
[04:07] <Roey> hrm.
[04:07] <Roey> I had set that to no autologin.
[04:07] <Roey> but that makes sense.
[04:07] <arraybolt3> No problem, however you want it set up.
[04:08] <arraybolt3> You can change it later too.
[04:08] <Roey> ok, autologin it is.
[04:08] <Roey> btw the encryption password shoot be strong and good because even though there are multiple pw slots
[04:08] <Roey> it's still the master password, right?
[04:08] <arraybolt3> The encryption password should be strong and good since with it you can get at your data.
[04:09] <arraybolt3> If it's not strong, then there wasn't a whole lot of point behind using encryption in the first place.
[04:09] <Roey> right.
[04:09] <Roey> like so for my other laptop I made a less srong pw for the encryption
[04:09] <Roey> and I want to change that
[04:09] <Roey> and I am not sure if I can now.
[04:09] <arraybolt3> You can change a passphrase later.
[04:09] <arraybolt3> I've done so on this laptop, it worked.
[04:09] <Roey> also, no swap
[04:09] <Roey> ?
[04:09] <Roey> or will it make a swapfile
[04:10] <arraybolt3> I believe it will make a swapfile in a special subvolume that supports it.
[04:10] <Roey> ok
[04:10] <arraybolt3> If it doesn't, you should be able to make it happen.
[04:10] <Roey> ok it is installing now.
[04:11] <arraybolt3> Nice. While you were doing that, I decided to take off a key on my keyboard to clean out from under it and now can't figure out how to get it back on XD
[04:11] <Roey> you are so cute.
[04:11] <Roey> like a dilbert cartoon.
[04:11] <arraybolt3> lol
[04:11] <Roey> so now it's happily installing.
[04:12] <arraybolt3> Nice.
[04:13] <Roey> 36% complete.
[04:13] <Roey> I'm going to go brush my teeth while I'm at it; brb
[04:13] <arraybolt3> ee2ee23a
[04:14] <arraybolt3> Sounds good, see you then!
[04:17] <Roey> "all done"
[04:17] <Roey> what's ee2ee23a
[04:18] <arraybolt3> That's me still trying to reassemble my keyboard :(
[04:18] <Roey> oh gosh so cute cute cute <3
[04:18] <Roey> so now it says "Attemptint o decyrpt master key... Enter passphrase for hd0,msdos1
[04:19] <arraybolt3> OK, enter the passphrase you gave during installagion.
[04:19] <neosin> hey seems radeon profile is active project :)
[04:19] <arraybolt3> *installation
[04:19] <Roey> ok and.....
[04:19] <arraybolt3> Hit Enter.
[04:19] <Roey> it appears to have taken that.....
[04:19] <Roey> oh great! it's booting.
[04:19] <arraybolt3> It's normal for the passphraes to not appear on the screen.
[04:19] <arraybolt3> It will freeze for a while.
[04:19] <Roey> aye
[04:19] <arraybolt3> Woot, sounds like it worked all around!
[04:20] <Roey> see, on my new Dell Inspiron16 laptop, I installed using kubuntu 2.10
[04:20] <Roey> and it didn't ive me any lip a out anything
[04:20] <Roey> now it asked me to update/upgrade/dist-upgrade
[04:21] <Roey> I'll defin itely want to set up autologin on that new laptop as well.
[04:21] <Roey> annd also chnage the boot encryption pw on it.
[04:22] <Roey> btw: for what it's worth, correct horse battery staple is /not/ necessarily more secure
[04:22] <arraybolt3> D:
[04:22] <Roey> b/c conceivably an attacker can use dictionary words
[04:22] <Roey> it's better ot make up non-dictionary words and use that as a passphrase
[04:22] <arraybolt3> Now that the installation is done, you should be able to update, upgrade, and then do "sudo apt install kubuntu-desktop".
[04:22] <Roey> arf mak blarg noff
[04:22] <Roey> liek that.
[04:22] <Roey> ok one moment
[04:23] <Roey> i will do exarkly that.
[04:25] <arraybolt3> Whew, one key reinstalled, one to go!
[04:25] <arraybolt3> Tar. It's stiffer now that I've done that.
[04:25] <Roey> 68% done unpackyeay!
[04:25] <Roey> good for you!
[04:25] <Roey> btw how old are you?
[04:25] <Roey> I'm 42
[04:25] <arraybolt3> Around 20.
[04:26] <Roey> oh gosh so you are cute, lol
[04:26] <Roey> aww
[04:26] <Roey> I could be your fadda.
[04:26] <arraybolt3> More like frustrated at this point :P
[04:26] <Roey> why frustrated?
[04:26] <Roey> b/c of the keyboard conundrum?
[04:26] <arraybolt3> Yes.
[04:26] <Roey> what's the exact issue
[04:26] <Roey> how's it not fitting back on right
[04:26] <Roey> ?
[04:26] <arraybolt3> Something got stuck under a key, I took the key off, the mechanism underneath was weird and then I couldn't figureo ut how to get it back together.
[04:27] <Roey> look it up on the internet, have you tried this?
[04:27] <arraybolt3> So I took off an adjacent key in the hopes that I could pay more attention and figure out how it went together, and then I couldn't get *that* key back together either :P
[04:27] <Roey> also, mauybe something is still stuck there?
[04:27] <arraybolt3> Yeah I should probably look it up.
[04:27] <Roey> ahhh
[04:27] <Roey> I mean best bet would be youtube first
[04:27] <Roey> because youtube has videos on every little thing.
[04:27] <arraybolt3> And then when I finally got that key back together, it felt stiffer than before, probably because I messed something up.
[04:28] <Roey> stiffer? somehting's definitely stuck under it, sounds like
[04:29] <Roey> keep me posted about this.
[04:33] <Roey>  btw
[04:34] <Roey> arraybolt3: I installed kubuntu-desktop; I got this:
[04:34] <Roey> Encfs security information
[04:34] <Roey> According to a security audit by Taylor Hornby (Defuse Security), the current implementanot of Encfs is vulneable or potentially vulnerable to multiple types of attacks.  For examp;e, an attacker ...
[04:34] <Roey> blah blah blah
[04:34] <arraybolt3> Oh, you can skip over that, that's related to a setup option from older versions of Ubuntu.
[04:34] <Roey> ok
[04:34] <arraybolt3> You're using LUKS, not EncFS.
[04:35] <arraybolt3> I don't think modern Ubuntu even supports EncFS during installation.
[04:35] <Roey> aye
[04:35] <Roey> I thought maybe this was something used by the kubuntu-desktop package
[04:35] <Roey> it's installing kubuntu-desktop now
[04:35] <Roey> I fele good about this;
[04:35] <Roey> I've laready set up openvpn for hteo ther laptop
[04:35] <Roey> and have a certificate package all set up for this old laptop as well now
[04:35] <arraybolt3> It's probably something that's part of it for supporting old setups or some such. It might also just be a random dependency that got pulled in but isn't really needed (that happens sometimes).
[04:36] <Roey> okay
[04:36] <Roey> btw so you'r ein colleg enow?
[04:36] <arraybolt3> I never went to college, there's too many important things in my personal life that need my attention.
[04:36] <Roey> back when i was in college between 1998 - 2003, kde was in its 1.x and early 2.x days
[04:36] <Roey> ahhhh I see.
[04:36] <Roey> I used to compile kde myself
[04:36] <Roey> the entire kde suite
[04:37] <Roey> make scripts to compile it, too
[04:37] <arraybolt3> Hey, one key went back on and it seems to work \o/
[04:37] <Roey> and also hand-rolled my own kernels
[04:37] <Roey> YES!!!!!!!
[04:37] <arraybolt3> Heh, that sounds really fun.
[04:37] <arraybolt3> I actually do some contribution to KDE, and made a virtual appliance just for KDE development.
[04:37] <Roey> will this automatically select kubuntyu  desktop over lxqt desktop now?
[04:37] <arraybolt3> https://github.com/ArrayBolt3/kforge if you're interested.
[04:37] <Roey> next time I log in?
[04:37] <Roey> very nice!
[04:37] <arraybolt3> Roey: I actually don't know, but it should give you the option to boot either one on the login screen.
[04:38] <arraybolt3> It will probably boot into KDE though.
[04:38] <arraybolt3> Oh yeah... we enabled autologin.
[04:38] <arraybolt3> So you might actually want to undo that, which is thankfully very easy. I forgot about that detail.
[04:38] <arraybolt3> *undo autologin
[04:38] <Roey> ha, I like how you state outright "Krita is massive."
[04:38] <Roey> undo autologin.
[04:38] <Roey> ok
[04:39] <arraybolt3> Just do "cat /etc/sddm.conf" in a terminal and make sure the only options you see in there are autologin-related.
[04:39] <Roey> ah gotcha
[04:39] <arraybolt3> And if they are, "sudo rm /etc/sddm.conf".
[04:39] <Roey> go tit.
[04:39] <Roey> *got it.
[04:40] <Roey> btw I like your name.
[04:40] <Roey> was the name of  avery dear frine of mine.
[04:40] <Roey> *friend of mine
[04:41] <arraybolt3> Hah, that's cool. It's what happens if you say my name too fast :P (Aaron Rainbolt)
[04:41] <Roey> I see Session=Lubuntu under /etc/sddnm.conf
[04:41] <Roey> tthe onliy things in there is autologin  user = (me) and session = lubuntu
[04:41] <arraybolt3> Yeah, then just nuke the file.
[04:41] <Roey> aye
[04:41] <Roey> also you hve a cool last name :)
[04:41] <arraybolt3> (I see why my one key was stiff - there's a piece of plastic stuck in the hinge.)
[04:42] <Roey> what did I say, yeah? ;)
[04:42] <arraybolt3> Probably put there from me taking the key off in the first place...
[04:42] <Roey> aye
[04:42] <Roey> ok, so reboot now?
[04:42] <arraybolt3> (Since I accidentally broke off a couple of plastic pieces in so doing.)
[04:42] <arraybolt3> Yeah, reboot and see what happens.
[04:42] <Roey> (ah)
[04:42] <Roey> ok
[04:42]  * arraybolt3 resolves to *never* try to disassemble this keyboard again unless there's no other option
[04:42] <Roey> why does it take so long
[04:43] <Roey> after I give it the encryption pw
[04:43] <Roey> ?
[04:43] <arraybolt3> I beleive it's a security feature.
[04:43] <Roey> oh, ok.
[04:43] <Roey> so now it says.. powered by lubuntu.
[04:43] <arraybolt3> If it took a short amount of time to get the decryption key from the password, it would be easily brute-forced.
[04:43] <Roey> let's see what it gives me.
[04:43] <Roey> d'ah.
[04:43] <Roey> a virtual keyboard.
[04:43] <Roey> thanks, kde.
[04:43] <Roey> er, sddm
[04:43] <arraybolt3> That's actually probably fixable.
[04:44] <arraybolt3> Type your password and hit Enter, and see where you get.
[04:44] <Roey> session: Lubuntu (in the dropdown).  I choose Plasma (wayland).
[04:44] <arraybolt3> Plasma... *wayland?!* How...
[04:44] <Roey> ther'es plasma (wayland) and plasma (kde) and openbox and lxqt desktop and lubuntu
[04:44] <arraybolt3> I'd use plasma (kde).
[04:44] <arraybolt3> I'll look into what happened with Plasma Wayland, it's still experimental last I heard and the fact that it got installed is odd to me.
[04:44] <Roey> yeah I'm.
[04:45] <Roey> er
[04:45] <Roey> yeh now I'm in farking waylnd.
[04:45] <arraybolt3> Log out and go to plasma (kde).
[04:45] <Roey> why
[04:45] <Roey> er
[04:45] <Roey> I mean
[04:45] <Roey> this is plasma wayland.
[04:45] <Roey> it's a kde desktop here
[04:46] <arraybolt3> Wayland on KDE is still experimental and you may experience instability and glitches in it.
[04:46] <Roey> oh ok
[04:46] <arraybolt3> KDE using the X Server is more stable.
[04:46] <Roey> log out?
[04:46] <Roey> or reboot?
[04:46] <arraybolt3> Just log out.
[04:47] <Roey> ok I chose plasma kde.
[04:47] <Roey> how do I heck to see hte subol
[04:47] <Roey> *subvols?
[04:47] <Roey> btrfs subvol list?
[04:48] <arraybolt3> I... actually don't know that answer...
[04:48] <Roey> btrfs sobvolume
[04:48] <Roey> something
[04:48] <Roey> show
[04:48] <Roey> ?
[04:48] <arraybolt3> Lemme look it up.
[04:48] <Roey> btrfs subvolume show: exactly 1 argument expected, 0 given
[04:48] <Roey> i.e.
[04:48] <Roey> 0 fucks given.
[04:48] <Roey> hrm.
[04:48] <arraybolt3> btrfs subvolume
[04:48] <arraybolt3> btrfs subvolume list
[04:49] <Roey> yeah that's the thing it gives back
[04:49] <Roey> it ants...
[04:49] <Roey> one sec
[04:49] <Roey> btfs sub list /
[04:49] <Roey> yeah so:
[04:49] <Roey> sudo btrfs sub vol list /
[04:49] <Roey> path @
[04:49] <Roey> path @home
[04:49] <Roey> path @swap
[04:49] <Roey> good.
[04:49] <arraybolt3> Woot!
[04:49] <arraybolt3> Ugh, anti-flood bot again...
[04:50]  * arraybolt3 yells at Drone
[04:51] <arraybolt3> There it goes.
[04:51] <Roey> Aaron thank you *sooooooooooo much*
[04:51] <Roey> so so so so much
[04:51] <arraybolt3> :) Glad to help! Good luck!
[04:51] <Roey> I was about to give up on this beater laptop
[04:51] <Roey> but now it has new life!
[04:51] <arraybolt3> Very glad we finally have something that works.
[04:51] <Roey> next step: set up openvpn on it
[04:52] <arraybolt3> Oh, about the Ethernet driver... do you want to tackle that now or some other day?
[04:52] <Roey> yes please
[04:52] <Roey> let's do that
[04:52] <Roey> yallah
[04:52] <Roey> good night to you :)
[04:52] <Roey> sweet dreams :)
[04:52] <arraybolt3> Heh, hold on, typing...
[04:52] <Roey> heh
[04:52] <arraybolt3> So we know that the driver is recognized, but the link isn't for some reason.
[04:53] <arraybolt3> So... can you make sure WiFi is connected, then plug in the Ethernet cable, wait a few seconds, then run "sudo dmesg | nc termbin.com 9999"?
[04:54] <Roey> er that would rveal my internal ips and such
[04:54] <arraybolt3> Hmm...
[04:55] <arraybolt3> Well can you share just the end of it, the part that may have error messages related to Ethernet?
[04:55] <arraybolt3> You can redact sensitive info if you want.
[04:56] <Roey> though
[04:56] <Roey> it's still not showing inet in the output of "ip addr"
[04:56] <arraybolt3> That's expected. What I'm wondering is if there's a driver problem, or a configuration problem.
[04:57] <arraybolt3> dmesg's output should tell me that, since any driver errors should show up there.
[04:58] <Roey> i'm looking for that
[04:58] <Roey> one moment
[04:59] <Roey> it just says "enp4s0: renamed from eth0"
[05:00] <Roey> alright and now I'm off ot bed
[05:00] <Roey> arraybolt3: thank you once more :)
[05:00] <arraybolt3> :)
[05:00] <arraybolt3> We;ll tackle the driver another time.
[05:00] <Roey> have a great night, and let's reconvene later :)
[05:01] <Roey> fantastic
[05:01] <arraybolt3> Sounds good.
[05:01] <arraybolt3> See you then!
[05:01] <Roey> gnight!!
[08:45] <Fravialis> Hi all. I can't get cups to stop asking for a user/pass, even though cupds.conf looks like this: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/78855cdc
[08:45] <Fravialis> Hmmm, this is a server, not Kubuntu, I'll ask in #ubuntu
[09:20] <user|8> Hi
[11:20] <user|92> clase live
[11:20] <user|92> clave live
[14:07] <Roey> arraybolt3: hey there :)  So now I've otten OpenVPN working on it.  This is great, it's everything I wanted in this old, newly-refurbished laptop (4GB -> 8GB RAM, 500GB HDD -> 1000GB SDD, new battery)
[14:07] <Roey> s/otten/gotten
[14:18] <mparillo> I was on the phone with some UK-English speakers, and they seemed to object the parallelism in American present perfect. I have written, I have spoken, I have gotten.
[14:18] <mparillo> Off-topic, I suppose.
[15:56] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[16:20] <Roey> hey is kazooi server down??
[16:20] <Roey> I cna't connect to it for updating
[16:25] <Roey> also where does kde keep its .kde these days in kubuntu 22.10?
[16:25] <Roey> ~/.kde ?
[16:25] <BluesKaj> Roey: check your package manager/sources
[16:25] <Roey> because I tried copying over a .kde from another user and it doesn't seem to take effect
[16:25] <Roey> BluesKaj: i checked with #ubuntu
[16:25] <Roey> it's down
[16:26] <pick> Hi using Kubuntu 22.04. locked screen and could not unlock it: "unlocking failed". I can log into virtual terminals, so I know my password. what could be wrong and what can I do?
[16:27] <pick> top shows kscreenlocker_greet and kscreen_backend_launcher. should I kill them or is there someway to diagnose what went wrong?
[16:32] <Elliria> Hey there, do any of you have a recommendation for an easy-to-use substitute for VirtualBox that's available in the Ubuntu repositories in Kubuntu 22.04 LTS?
[16:34] <alkisg> Elliria: you just download the .deb from oracle
[16:34] <alkisg> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
[16:35] <alkisg> Ah you mean you DON'T want virtualbox, but something else, that's in the stock repositories?
[16:35] <alkisg> I'd guess virt-manager then
[16:36] <alkisg> Ah you cross-posted to #ubuntu, nevermind then
[16:38] <Elliria> I've got VirtualBox installed from the Ubuntu repositories (my preference over installing from external sources) and it keeps crashing whether I try to run an ISO without installing or whether I try to install. It's a bug that didn't get sorted out for me even though it did get sorted out for some others [sigh]. As a result, I'm looking for an alternative so I can create and run a VM from an ISO.
[16:38] <alkisg> Elliria: there are some programs like virtualbox, firefox etc that need frequent updates, due to new kernels or security issues
[16:39] <alkisg> The policy of debian/ubuntu not to ship new versions in the same debian/ubuntu series makes it hard for them
[16:39] <alkisg> For firefox, they had to exclude it from the policy, and they allowed new versions
[16:39] <alkisg> For virtualbox, that wasn't done. So it's one of the few programs where it's best NOT to use the version from the repositories
[16:40] <Elliria> But it's un the repositories. Wouldn't they have taken it out if it were inadvisable to use it?
[16:40] <alkisg> No
[16:40] <alkisg> There's no guarantee for the quality of programs
[16:40] <alkisg> As long as they build and they don't have security issues and there's a maintainer somewhere, they keep them in the archives
[16:40] <alkisg> Although, virtualbox DID get out of debian frequently
[16:41] <alkisg> Not sure if it's out right now, but it's been in-and-out for a long time, due to these issues
[16:41] <Elliria> So, I should completely uninstall VirtualBox from Kubuntu and then download that .deb and run it?
[16:41] <alkisg> Right
[16:41] <Roey> BluesKaj: ok now it's back up
[16:41] <Roey> BluesKaj: anyway, what do you mean my package manager/sources
[16:41] <Roey> BluesKaj: also hi, long time no see o/ *hug*
[16:42] <Roey> BluesKaj: anyway I am copying my old laptop's ~/.kde over to my new one
[16:42] <Roey> and the new .kde doesn't seem to take effect
[16:42] <Roey> i.e. wallpaper/dimensinos of the panel/etc.
[16:42] <alkisg> Debian requested that virtualbox and firefox send "patches" for "lts versions" of their programs. That's too much work, and upstream refused to do that. Hence the low quality of the packages of these programs (and one of the reasons they wanted to switch the browsers to snap instead of deb)
[16:46] <Elliria> If I download and run the .deb file from Oracle, will it be automatically updated from then on or will I need to check for new versions from time to time and delete that one and replace it with a new one, alkisg?
[16:46] <alkisg> Elliria: they have a repository, so you can do either
[16:46] <alkisg> I.e. if you install only the .deb, you don't get updates; if you add the repository, you get updates
[16:48] <BluesKaj> Hi Roey,  the sources.list servers can be changed from defasult to other optional servers in the package manager and sometimes that will help
[16:48] <Roey> BluesKaj: ahh okay, thanks
[16:48] <Roey> BluesKaj: now that's one issue solved
[16:48] <Roey> BluesKaj: the ohter is the .kde
[16:49] <Elliria> Okay, thank you very much for the help, alkisg. I guess I'll install the .deb file. Will I lose the current and only VM that I have in there now or is there a way I can preserve it in its current state and import it into the new version?
[16:50] <alkisg> Elliria: there's no need to import it, it'll be there when you open the new version
[16:51] <Elliria> But I do completely uninstall the current version first, though, right, alkisg?
[16:52] <BluesKaj> Roey:  oddly I don't have ~/.kde even in hidden files
[16:52] <alkisg> Elliria: yes. I think it might also conflict and uninstall it anyway; but it's probably better to remove it, then install the new one, then reboot for the new services to load, then run the VM
[16:55] <Elliria> Okay, I'll do that. Thank you so much for the help, alkisg. I'll be back in here if I run into any trouble, but this sounds simple to do.
[16:55] <alkisg> 👍️
[16:57] <Roey> BluesKaj: ok
[16:57] <Roey> so where does kde store its settings?
[16:58] <Roey> BluesKaj: it used to be in .kde/, as I understand it.
[17:01] <BluesKaj> Roey: that's not a valid path
 mostly in ~/.config/ now
[17:12] <sem> I am using ubuntu studio (plasma) with a touch screen. If I shutdown, I get the nice shutdown splash screen that gives me some shutdown, logout, restart, etc., buttons to push. But if I touch these, it just moves the most there, but doesn't click. How do I get the touchscreen to click?
[17:12] <sem> s/most/mouse/
 Roey: that's not a valid path
 <RikMills> mostly in ~/.config/ now
[17:25] <Roey> ok, thank you
[17:40] <Elliria> So far so good. The old version of VirtualBox is gone, the new one is installed, and I'm installing Kubuntu 22.04 LTS in it as we speak.
[19:21] <mmikowski> sem: Have you added gestures? You can set a 'tap-to-click' for the touchpad; that might work for the touch screen too.
[19:21] <mmikowski> I don't have a touch screen currently running (although I did a few years back), so I can't test at the moment.
 Hello, was updating my system now I am getting black screen after boot
 Understood. I have asked on their subreddit, and one of them said that it might be a "KDE-specific" bug. But I don't know about the technicalities, so I think I will leave it there and wait for the next update. (re @Eickmeyer: Rule of thumb: If it's not in the Ubuntu repositories, it's not supported. Don't expect any help for it here. Sorry.)
 how do I resolve /etc/x11/xinit/xserverrc 3 exec /usr/bin/x not found
 q3op
 2S7W
[21:34] <rafaelmn> Hi. I am trying to fing the right distro for installing Kubuntu in an old laptop having an Intel celeron architecture
[21:35] <rafaelmn> most of the distros seems to be only for AMD chipset
[21:35] <rafaelmn> any advice?
[21:37] <tomreyn> hey rafaelmn
[21:38] <rafaelmn> hi Tom
[21:38] <tomreyn> you probably read "amd64". this is also intel, as long as it's 64-bit. celeron can be 64-bit or 32, i think, you'd need to check which cpu you have exactly.
[21:40] <rafaelmn> this is what I see into the config: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  N2840  @ 2.16GHz   2.16 GHz
[21:41] <tomreyn> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/82103/intel-celeron-processor-n2840-1m-cache-up-to-2-58-ghz/specifications.html says "instruction set: 64-bit"
[21:41] <tomreyn> so this would be amd64-compatible
[21:43] <rafaelmn> Thanks Tom!!! I will try it.
[21:43] <tomreyn> some of those celerons, however, were sold with mainboards / bioses which only support 32-bit boot loaders, if i recall this correctly. if that's the case for yours, you'd need to use a 32-bit grub, while the rest of the system could be 64-bit.
[21:43] <tomreyn> but just give it a try, hopefully it's all proper 64-bit
[21:43] <tomreyn> if the installer / live iso boots on it, you should be fine
[21:44] <rafaelmn> great! Thanks again for your help
[21:44] <tomreyn> it may be slow, and short of RAM, though...
[21:44] <tomreyn> you're welcome
[21:45] <rafaelmn> I will give it a try in any case ;)
[21:52] <tomreyn> rafaelmn: you might want to bookmark this for a web browser (if the standard firefox or chromium are too slow / keep failing): https://fathy.fr/carbonyl
[23:26] <morpheuz> when i use "pkcon refresh" some repositories do get listed twice or three times. how do clean that up?