[00:48] hello [00:48] I couldn't boot my old laptop using a Kubuntu 22.10 ISO boot USB stick, but when I put Arch Linux 2023.02.01 on that USB stick, it /did/ boot... [00:48] why the differnece? [00:49] with Kubuntu on the USB stick, BIOS hangs with "No operation system found" [00:49] (dell inspiron 14z nv11 from circa 2012) [00:51] If I were to guess, it's probably that your BIOS isn't coping well with Kubuntu's use of a GPT partition table. (I remember all our previous installation attempts failed even though Kubuntu should be BIOS-compatible). This may be a silly solution, but Lubuntu still uses a traditional MBR partition table when you install it. Perhaps you could install Lubuntu, then install the kubuntu-desktop [00:51] package on top? Then you would have LXQt and KDE desktop environments that you could switch between. [00:55] arraybolt3: hrm. [00:55] btw what is lubuntu [00:55] lxde?? [00:55] lxqt* rather [00:55] oh, I see. [00:55] aarramaybe I can install ubuntu and install kde desktop, then? [00:56] arraybolt3: ^ [00:57] Roey: Ubuntu or Lubuntu? [00:57] Ubuntu Desktop will use the same partition setup as Kubuntu, which appears to not work. [00:58] Lubuntu uses a different partition layout and may work. [00:58] Once you install Lubuntu, then yes, you can install KDE on top of that. [00:58] arraybolt3: ohhhh ok, got it. [00:58] right right [00:58] https://lubuntu.me/ is the official website. [00:58] I am downloading Lubuntu 22.10 now [00:58] yeah that's where I am downloading it from, lubuntu.me [00:58] +1 [00:59] FYI: You can install multiple desktops/flavors on a single install, but there can be complications to that (sorry I've not followed the whole discussion, saw the Ubuntu & install KDE desktop question... that's possible yes) [00:59] complicatoins how so? [00:59] would they contravene what arraybolt3 suggests? [00:59] Sometimes mutliple DEs can end up not working so well together - mostly I've heard of this happening with GNOME and KDE together. [01:00] LXQt and KDE, not sure, though I think it will probably work. [01:00] ok [01:00] hrm. what if I want to try out Wayland, too? [01:01] Wayland works best with GNOME, other environments with Wayland are either somewhat limited or don't work very well. [01:01] (KDE *does* have a Wayland version, but it's still experimental and in development.) [01:02] If you really, really wanted to try it, though, I don't see why it would conflict with a normal install of KDE or with LXQt. [01:02] I just don't recommend Wayland anything since it tends to be disappointing or problematic. [01:02] (In my experience.) [01:03] Roey: I'm not sure what you're asking an opinion to (what arraybolt3 said), but if you have only 2 flavors installed problems are rare; 3 a little less so, once you get 4 or more problems can be expected where they interfere with each other; settings are harder to align etc.. AND the issues can vary from release to release, so if I gave suggestions for 22.04, they may not match a 22.10 install.. (and what release you installed on & history [01:03] can also impact it, not just what you're running now)... I wrote an answer on askubu but didn't find it to paste sorry [01:05] ok. well thank you guiverc [01:05] I'm downloading lubuntu now [01:05] will try installign it. [01:06] let's see if the laptop can even boot from a lubuntu iso usb [01:06] FYI: I have used Ubuntu Desktop (GNOME) & Kubuntu (KDE Plasma) on the same install without issue; but not recently.. I do have Lubuntu (LXQt) installs that also have Kubuntu (KDE Plasma) installed too... [01:06] I'm using the following command to install it to the USB stick, btw: sudo dd bs=4M if=/home/roey/tmp/lubuntu-22.10-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdd conv=fsync oflag=direct status=progress [01:06] * guiverc just discovers I can use IRC; I didn't realize it was this room so thanks Roey [01:07] guiverc: oh cool :) [01:07] yeah this is a nice place ;) [01:07] swanky and all [01:10] ok [01:10] arraybolt3: so the laptop does not appear to boot off a Lubuntu 22.10 USB stick either [01:10] only archlinux USB stick [01:10] & no I don't see any issues with what arraybolt3 said ^ [01:10] ok [01:11] what is the (f****ing) differnece between archlinux's and kubuntu/lubuntu's ISO image such that the laptop boots off of arch's and says "operation system not found" for the other? [01:11] All Ubuntu ISOs are built using the same procudures (& by Ubuntu I include flavors like Lubuntu/Kubuntu/...) so its rare that one boots & others don't (differences like that are usually it started booting & then stopped due to config issue during loading, not the boot) [01:11] for the same release that last statement assumes === neo is now known as Guest1644 [01:12] guiverc: ok. === Guest1644 is now known as neosin [01:13] Ubuntu ISOs are built for multiple architectures; and from 20.10 & later an effort is made so they all boot the same way; thus there can be differences between say 20.10, 21.04, 21.10, 22.04, 22.10, but it's the same for amd64, arm64, s390x, ppc64el, etc for a given release. [01:13] ok [01:13] I have no idea what architectures ARCH builds for... [01:13] well uefi or bios [01:13] I mean. [01:14] my old laptop has bios, not uefi [01:14] Roey: Wait, weren't you able to get Kubuntu's ISO to boot in the past, it was the installed system that wouldn't boot? [01:14] (Arch Linux still uses ISOLINUX on BIOS systems, I believe, while Ubuntu recently transitioned to using GRUB, which was supposed to *help* things, sadly it looks like it may have messed things up here?) [01:14] arraybolt3: I had installed with via CD/DVD in the past [01:15] Oh. [01:15] it boots off of DVD fine. [01:15] ...ok that is seriously weird. [01:15] Well... are you up for trying a really weird way of creating a bootable USB drive? [01:15] lol ok [01:15] what's the idea? [01:16] Basically, rather than just DDing the whole ISO to the drive... [01:16] ...instead we'll copy all the files from within the ISO onto the drive, then install the GRUB bootloader ourselves. [01:16] This will result in everything being in an ext4 partition rather than an ISO9660 partition. [01:16] And it may improve the situation. [01:16] hrm [01:17] So basically, take the USB, format it, mount the ISO, copy everything inside, then grub-install the bootloader onto the USB drive. [01:17] btw the .iso of hte kubuntu 22.10, it has all these parttions on it [01:17] This is easiest to do from a fully functional Linux distro. [01:17] my laptop's bios doesn' tlike that [01:17] it can't boot off it. [01:18] Yeah, that might be the problem. We'll only have one partition with this setup. [01:20] ok. [01:21] ewll [01:21] swap partition [01:21] and a partition for / /boot /home [01:21] right? [01:21] We're just making a bootable USB to install from. [01:21] ok [01:21] how we gonna do this? [01:21] So no, for this particular setup, we want an MBR partition table with exactly one ext4 partition swallowing the whole drive. [01:21] riught [01:21] You're booted into Arch right now? [01:21] *right [01:21] I am, y es. [01:21] *yes [01:22] OK. Let's see if I can do this... [01:22] ...does fdisk exist on the drive? [01:23] Like, does "fdisk -l" do anything? [01:23] Also, do you have a blank USB drive that you can put the Lubuntu system on? [01:23] *Lubuntu ISO, I mean [01:23] hrm. [01:24] yeah [01:24] fdisk -l shows /dev/sda1 1 MB BIOS boot [01:24] /dev/sda2 513M EFI System [01:24] /dev/sda3 1.7G Linux filesystem [01:24] OK. [01:24] /dev/sda4 929.3G Linux filesystem [01:24] That's all I need to know. [01:24] oh it still created that darned EFI filesystem? jeez [01:25] I just wanted to know if the tool existed. [01:25] (this was the installation I did from the DVD of Kubuntu 22.10) [01:25] ok [01:25] yeah [01:25] I have kubuntu 22.10 on a 4GB USB stick as well [01:25] OK. Plug in a blank USB drive (or one you can afford to wipe), then "lsblk | nc termbin.com 9999" and send the link. [01:27] on the laptop you mean? [01:27] Yes. [01:28] er it is not conncetd to internet apparently [01:29] Ugh, right, because this is Arch. Uhh... [01:29] /dev/sda1 1M partition [01:29] /dev/sda2 13M partition [01:29] Hold on, don't paste or type things into chat please. [01:29] /dev/sda3 1.7G partition [01:29] (That doesn't help me.) [01:29] /dev/sda4 929.3G partition [01:29] /dev/sdb 57.8G disk [01:29] /dev/sdb1 2.7GB partition [01:29] /dev/sdb2 4.2MB partition [01:29] You only have a WiFi connection, I'm guessing? [01:29] /dev/sdb3 300k partition [01:30] oh it's connected via ethernet as well. [01:30] anyway I just dumped for you the info it printed [01:30] that can't possibly be all of it, one of them is your Arch Linux USB stick and the other one is your internal hard drive, where's the blank drive? [01:30] Also, what does "ping google.com" do? [01:30] i took out the arch linux usb sick [01:31] Oh... ok so wait... [01:31] and replaced it with the kubuntu stick [01:31] ...did you boot Arch from the installer USB or did you install it and are now booted from the installed system? [01:31] I booted from the Arch stick, then took out hte arch stick and put in the Kubuntu stick [01:31] I think it copied everything to ram [01:31] on booting. [01:32] Hmm... well we can hope so :P [01:32] I can reboot with both plugged in, just to prevent from confusing it. [01:32] ;) [01:32] Can you ping google.com? [01:32] Or, possibly more importantly, do you have a copy of the Lubuntu ISO on the hard drive already? [01:32] I have acopy of kubuntu 22.10 on the hard drive [01:32] that it installed from DVD [01:33] Right. But we need the Lubuntu ISO so that we can put it on the USB drive. [01:33] So where is the Lubuntu ISO? Or are we going to need to download it? [01:34] er sorry I meant Lubuntu not Kubuun tu [01:34] I overwrote Kubuntu with Lubuntu. [01:34] Oh. So you have a Lubuntu ISO somewhere (probably in /home/roey/tmp) that we'll be able to mount and access? [01:35] If so, we can probably just proceed to making the bootable USB. [01:35] yeah I can probably mount it. [01:35] OK. Try mounting it and see if we can look at the files inside. [01:36] yeah I ran mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt [01:36] shows "EFI boot boot.catalog casper dists install md5sum.txt pool preseed ubuntu" [01:37] OK, nice. [01:37] Alright, run "fdisk /dev/sdb". [01:38] ok [01:38] Command (m for help): [01:38] Oh... dear, hold on, you're reading the ISO files directly from the USB that we're about to format. That won't work. [01:38] The moment we format the USB so we can make it bootable a different way, we're going to end up wiping all of the files from it. [01:38] hrm [01:39] right [01:39] btw [01:39] I cna probably put the old hard drive in a usb3 enclosure and boot off that [01:39] since i got the enclosure afew days ago [01:39] for this purpose. [01:39] OK, that would likely work. [01:39] Then we can format that as the bootable USB drive. [01:40] er not that hard drive [01:40] that has my old data [01:40] hehe [01:40] Oh lol nevermind bad idea [01:41] Hold on just a bit, I have to do something real quick, I'll be right back. In the mean time, if you can get your system to a point where you have a flash drive you can format and the ISO you can mount, that would be fantastic. [01:43] ok [01:45] Alright, I'm back, thanks for your patience. [01:59] arraybolt3: ok fantastic [01:59] it's booting off the hard drive that's now in a usb3 enclosure [01:59] \o/ [02:00] :) :) [02:03] arraybolt3: ok, I'm finally in my laptop again [02:03] albeit. on the hard drive. [02:05] Nice. OK, can you download the Lubuntu ISO again? That way we can turn the Lubuntu flash drive into a (hopefully working) Lubuntu flash drive and keep the alread-working Arch drive intact. (This isn't necessary if you're on a metered connection.) [02:05] ok. [02:05] I'll download it on to the laptop. [02:07] doing that now in fact. [02:08] lubuntu 22.10 [02:10] While it's downloading, we can be formatting the USB drive. [02:10] do we even need the usb drive at this point [02:10] cna't we just insall it from the HD/usb3 enclosure -> SDD in the laptop? [02:11] ...technically (and by that I mean "lots of technical stuff involved in that") yes, that would be possible, but that would be extremely advanced and probably not something that you (or I) want to tackle at this point. [02:12] With Linux, almost anything is possible, but possible does not always equal easy :P [02:12] hrm ok [02:12] It will be far easier to set up a USB drive and boot from that, than to try to "chainload" the ISO file directly and use it to install. [02:12] well yes that I have seen ;) [02:12] ok [02:13] hard this at Starbucks today (in rockville, md): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sABVNz31WA0 [02:13] heard* [02:21] Roey: Do you have the USB and/or the ISO yet? [02:22] (Just checking in so that I'm not leaving you behind.) [02:23] arraybolt3: yes I do have it downloaded [02:25] OK, one moment, brb... [02:27] brb phone [02:39] OK, back. [02:57] arraybolt3: back [03:09] o/ [03:09] Roey: Alright, do you have the USB drive plugged in and ready to format? [03:22] yes. [03:23] arraybolt3: yes I do. [03:24] OK. [03:24] So... do you happen to have KDE Partition Manager available? Because if so, this is going to be a lot easier. [03:25] yes. [03:25] OK, open it. [03:25] yeah [03:25] done [03:25] Once you're in (after typing your password), select your USB drive, click "New Partition Table", select MBR as the partition table type, and then "Create New Partition Table". [03:26] Then right-click on the unallocated space on the drive, and click "New" in the menu that pops up. [03:26] Then select ext4 as the partition type, leave the rest of the settings at their defaults, and create the partition. [03:26] choose the type of parititon tbale yopu want to create [03:26] GPT [03:26] MS-DOS [03:26] MS-DOS. [03:26] ok [03:26] ok [03:26] done [03:27] Then right-click on the unallocated space on the drive, and click "New" in the menu that pops up. [03:27] ok [03:27] done [03:27] Then select ext4 as the partition type, leave the rest of the settings at their defaults, and create the partition. [03:27] done [03:27] Then you should be able to click "Apply" and apply the changes. [03:28] k 0% done. [03:28] why did it stall [03:28] it's oh now it's all done [03:29] Roey: Nice. OK, now let's open Konsole. [03:29] (You can close the partition manager window.) [03:29] .k [03:29] ok at konsole now [03:30] Alright, do 'lsblk' so you can determine which drive is your flash drive, then "sudo mkdir /bootDrv && sudo mount /dev/sdX1 /bootDrv", replacing sdX1 with the partition on your flash drive. [03:31] /dev/sdd is the flash drive [03:31] Nice, then "sudo mkdir /bootDrv && sudo mount /dev/sdd1 /bootDrv" [03:31] ok done [03:31] OK, now mount the Lubuntu ISO file to /mnt. [03:32] ok [03:32] done [03:33] Next, "sudo cp -R /mnt/. /bootDrv" (note that every character is important, including the odd-looking /. at the end of /mnt/.) [03:33] (The quotes can be omitted as usual though.) [03:34] This command will probably take a while to run, since it's copying the ISOs contents to the flash drive. [03:34] ok it's doing that now. [03:34] didn't know you can intall it thatway, to an ext4 partition [03:34] thought you'd have to dd if=lubuntu.iso of=/dev/sdd [03:34] It's a bit hacky, but it works (or at least it did work last I tried). [03:34] but ok [03:35] but yeah I see what we are doing [03:35] The idea is this lets us use a different partitioning method that might work better with your particular computer's BIOS. [03:35] yes [03:35] And since we already have a grub.cfg file on the ISO conveniently enough, all we have to do after this is install the GRUB bootloader itself and everything else should just work. [03:35] (also, from there, how will we make the sdd bootable?) [03:35] ah ok [03:35] got it [03:38] ok it finished. [03:38] should i run sync just to make sure [03:38] looks like the usb drive is still writing [03:38] even though the command finished [03:39] yeah atop still shows it writing to /dev/sdd [03:39] even though the cp command finished [03:39] Probably don't need to run sync *yet*, though we will want to before we're done. [03:39] There's no harm in running it now though. [03:39] ok [03:40] how is i still copying even though the command returned?? [03:40] Disk caching. [03:40] riiiiight [03:40] ok [03:40] makes sense. [03:40] OK, one moment while I look up how to do the next command... [03:40] yes [03:40] ooh ok now it's done writing to /dev/sdd. [03:41] sudo grub-install --boot-directory=/bootDrv/boot /dev/sdd [03:41] (Yes, it is just /dev/sdd, **not** /dev/sdd1.) [03:41] ok [03:41] can I run sync [03:41] first? [03:41] Sure. [03:41] ok that finished too. [03:42] so I'm executing hte command you just gve me above [03:42] ok it's doing that now. [03:42] i finished. [03:43] *it finished. [03:43] Very nice. Now, "sudo umount /dev/sdd1" [03:43] ok [03:43] And now one last "sync" just to be sure. [03:43] ok [03:43] yep [03:43] Now you can unplug the drive, shut the system down, and then try to boot from it. [03:43] *boot from the USB drive [03:43] ok, one moment. [03:44] AAAAAAH [03:44] ok [03:45] I see the GRUB menu, arraybolt3 [03:45] so "Try or Install Lubuntu", yes? [03:45] I chose that. [03:45] Yes! [03:45] WOOHOO IT WORKED [03:45] :))))))0 [03:46] * arraybolt3 is really happy to hear that something finally worked [03:46] yeah the grpahics are starting up [03:46] p[owered by lubuntu [03:46] er [03:46] unable to read ROB block 8 [03:46] that ts was fun to watch [03:46] but there's now a mouse curor. [03:46] it'sooh and now i have the lxqt desktop in front of me. [03:46] wonderful. [03:47] OK, if that worked, the installation itself is almost certain to work, since we now are pretty sure that MBR + GRUB = happy laptop. [03:47] ok :) [03:48] Also there's an option to encrypt the partition if you want, and you might find that the Calamares installer in Lubuntu makes LUKS+BTRFS easy :) [03:48] so I just opened up qterminal. [03:48] oh so you suggest installing it? [03:48] instead of using grub to fix the existing installation? [03:48] Correct. [03:48] ok [03:48] The existing installation uses GPT, which didn't work. [03:48] We tried using GRUB to fix it which still failed. [03:48] ok. [03:49] so how will installing it through Lubuntu make this any different? [03:49] Lubuntu installs with an MBR partition table instead which is more likely to work, and then you can add kubuntu-desktop to your Lubuntu installation and have a Kubuntu+Lubuntu installation. [03:49] it won't use the same scheme? [03:49] ok [03:49] True. [03:49] ok. [03:49] It uses a different installer and a different scheme. [03:49] (Technically it would have been possible to use debootstrap to manually install Kubuntu with a good scheme, but that is... very difficult.) [03:50] (Installing Lubuntu normally and then adding Kubuntu's packages on top should be far easier.) [03:50] hrm. [03:50] "this system is not connceted to the Intenet". [03:50] what'sthe syntax for the "ip" command to show the current ip address? [03:50] it's connected via ethernet [03:51] it connected fine wwhen it was booted to the external hard drive [03:51] Uh... "ip addr" [03:52] But that's a bit concerning, if you unplug and replug your Ethernet cable what happens? [03:52] yeah it shows no ip [03:52] "i'm used to ifconfig" [03:52] (I'm used to ifconfig) [03:52] I tried unplugging and replugging [03:52] yeh. [03:53] Hrm... can you do "lspci", then find your Ethernet adapter in the list of devices and send its info? [03:53] QUalcomm Ahteros AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet (rev c1) [03:54] Qualcomm Atheros AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet (rev c1) [03:54] OK, lemme do some digging... [03:55] k [03:55] I mean i can probably connect it via wireless [03:55] Does "ip addr" show an "eno0" or "eth0" device or something? [03:55] Or do you only see your wireless adapter (wlpwhatever) and lo? [03:55] ok I connected it [03:56] ip addr shows [03:56] lo: [03:56] and enp4s0: [03:56] and wlp2s0: [03:56] that's what it shows. [03:56] enp4s0, ok so your Ethernet device is recognized. [03:56] for enp4s0: it doesn't show anything jin terms of ip address [03:56] But it doesn't have an IP... [03:56] it shows "DOWN" [03:56] Oh, OK, that might be fixable. [03:56] mtu 1500 qdlsc pfifo_fast state DOWN group default qlen 1000 [03:57] link/ether 84:8f:69:b7:80:4a brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff [03:57] but I'm connected via wifi now. [03:57] OK. Maybe we should fight with the Ethernet driver later. [03:57] right. [03:58] re-started the installer. [03:58] which partitioning to use? [03:58] Manual? Repla ce a partition? Erase disk? [03:58] *"Replace a partition?" [03:58] You could just use "Erase disk", then check the "Encrypt system" checkbox and add a password. [03:58] That would be the quickest way. [03:59] If you want BTRFS though, manual partitioning would be the way to go. [03:59] yes I do want btrfs. [03:59] OK, then lets do manual partitioning. [03:59] I mean [03:59] well I can convert an ext4 to btrfs later, right? [03:59] Bear with me while I pop open a VM to get this right. [03:59] k [03:59] oh also...... [03:59] on the left it has "BIOS [03:59] Roey: Not that I'm aware of, if you can that sounds dangerous. [03:59] and hten "select a storage degice" with a drop-down. [03:59] and then to the right of that it says "GPT" [04:00] OK, just ignore that for now and bear with me. [04:00] like, is it leting me choose between BIOS and GPT? [04:00] ok [04:00] BIOS is a firmware type, as opposed to UEFI. GPT i sa partition table type, as opposed to MBR/MS-DOS. [04:00] manual partitioning it is. [04:00] BIOS+MBR work best together. [04:00] UEFI+GPT work best together. [04:00] ok [04:00] yes understood. I just wans' taware if it was giving me a choice between the two [04:01] *wasn't aware [04:01]