Dave92f1Hi all. I'm a newbie and trying to understand installers, package managers, etc.02:00
Dave92f1My understanding is that some things are "wrappers" around other things. I'd like clarification about some of this.02:01
Dave92f1From my reading, in the GTK world (I know that's not Kubuntu) Synaptic is a GUI wrapper for apt. And apt is a wrapper for dpkg. Is that correct?02:02
Dave92f1What are the equivalants for Kubuntu and QT? I think they also use apt (which again is a wrapper for dpkg if I understand correctly).02:03
Dave92f1What wraps apt in Kubunut? Muon? Plasma Discover? Something else? This is where I get confused.02:03
arraybolt3There are some wrappers, yes.02:03
arraybolt3In Kubuntu, Muon and Discover are both wrappers.02:03
arraybolt3Muon is a wrapper specifically around `apt`, while Discover is a wrapper around apt, Snap, and possibly Flatpak.02:04
Dave92f1OK, Muon and Discover both wrap...apt?02:04
arraybolt3All of which are app installation systems for Linux.02:04
Dave92f1Yes, I read that Discover handles snap and flatpak. Does that mean if I have/use Discover, I don't need to use the snap store?02:04
arraybolt3True. You can install Snaps through Discover.02:05
arraybolt3So with Discover, the Snap Store is not needed.02:06
Dave92f1What role does kPackage play here?02:06
arraybolt3The reason for all of these wrappers is that each one is designed to do a particular job using the other ones as a tool. For instance, dpkg *can* be used to install software, but *ow* it would be so difficult because of how low-level it is. apt wraps dpkg and makes things much easier. Discover and Muon then wrap apt and let you use it (and other systems) with a GUI.02:07
Dave92f1If I use Discover, do I also need Muon?02:07
arraybolt3Dave92f1: kPackage?02:07
Dave92f1Wikipedia says kPackage "was KDE's package manager frontend". I can't find much else about it.02:08
arraybolt3Muon is sometimes more useful than Discover, but only in advanced scenarios that can be managed with the command line, so no, you don't need it, though you may find it to be more comfortable in some instances. (Personally I don't use it.)02:08
arraybolt3re: kPackage - That's almost certainly an old "wrapper" that has been replaced by Discover. Lemme check...02:08
arraybolt3Yeah that's old.02:08
arraybolt3It looks like KPackage is no longer a GUI frontend to apt, but is now more of a component that can be used internally by other apps.02:09
Dave92f1...and Synaptic would be the GTK equivalant of...Muon? Discover? (sorry it's a bit confusing)02:10
arraybolt3And the screenshot on Wikipedia appears to be from KDE 3...02:10
arraybolt3Synaptic is the GTK equivalent of Muon.02:10
arraybolt3Ubuntu Software is the GTK equivalent of Discover.02:10
arraybolt3Muon is more low-level than Discover and lets you fiddle with the guts of your system a bit more easily.02:10
arraybolt3Discover is more of an app store like Google Play or Apple's App Store.02:10
Dave92f1OK, that's helpful (I'm making notes here).02:11
arraybolt3To give a concrete example, you can easily install, say, an email client through Discover, whereas with Muon that may be a bit tricky. Muon on the other hand would be easy to use to fiddle with your system's kernel, which is something that Discover is probably entirely unable to do.02:11
Dave92f1I know I'm asking basic questions, but I actually prefer to do things at the command line when I can. So if I learn how to use Discover and apt, I probably don't need to think about Muon or dpkg. Is that right?02:12
arraybolt3Almost. Muon is entirely unneeded if you know how to use apt. dpkg is *usually* entirely unneeded, BUT, if something goes really wrong and you end up with your package manager in a bind, dpkg can help out there.02:13
arraybolt3Try not to *ever* use dpkg if you can avoid it. If, on the other hand, something has gone totally wrong and you need to mess with your package manager at a very low level, dpkg shines there.02:13
arraybolt3But yeah, with apt, Muon is unneeded, and dpkg is unneeded about 99.99% of the time.02:13
Dave92f1Ok, great. That's really helpful. If I want to install a given software, my current (maybe mistaken) thinking is that I should look in the following order:02:14
Dave92f1(1) Discover - native program (2) Discover- flatpak (3) Discover - snap (4) .deb file from developer (not sure how to install that...) (5) Wine (if a Windows program (6) a Windows VM (if a windows program won't work in Wine). Is that about right?02:16
arraybolt3I'd search for Snaps before Flatpaks, but that's a personal opinion. If you prefer Flatpak over Snap, that sounds like a fine order to do things in.02:16
Dave92f1For example, I tried to install Foxit Reader, couldn't find it in Discover, snap, or flatpak. But the developer offers a .deb package. But when I tried it, it really was bad compared to the Windows version. So, now I'm looking at Wine.02:17
Dave92f1(developer said the .deb was from a really old no-longer-maintained version)02:17
arraybolt3Sounds right!02:18
=== alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
arraybolt3(As in, what you're doing sounds right.)02:18
Dave92f1What about, say, VSCode (Visual Studio Code)? I couldn't find that in Discover, but clearly it was written for Linux first. Where should I look for it?02:18
Dave92f1The only reason I put snaps after flatpaks was the controversy about snaps. The developer of Mint really doesn't like snaps! Not entirely sure I follow his argument, tho.02:20
arraybolt3VSCode is available as a Snap.02:20
Dave92f1But my (very limited) experience is that the snaps I've tried work better than the flatpaks.02:20
Dave92f1OK, somehow I must have missed it.02:21
Dave92f1I'm trying to get back into Kubuntu as I'm typing this but I seem to have messed up the system. When I reboot I get an on-screen keyboard for some reason.02:21
arraybolt3(It might just be called `code` for some reason.)02:22
arraybolt3On-screen keyboard? That actually sounds worryingly familiar...02:23
Dave92f1If I hit the (on screen) Enter key with my mouse, I get an unfamiliar login page with a person icon, my user name under that, and a box for the password. I type my login password, hit enter, and ...nothing at all. Just sits there with my password still in the box [OOOOOOO]02:23
* arraybolt3 tries something on my end02:23
arraybolt3The unfamiliar login screen and on-screen keyboard sound like a possible (very recent) bug - Ubuntu Studio just had something go wonky and ended up with a regression that caused that. The password problem, though, should be resolvable - just try to log in again.02:24
arraybolt3(Probably delete the old password that's still in the box.)02:24
Dave92f1Well I backspaced over the old password and retyped it. When I hit enter, the same ... it just sits there.02:25
arraybolt3Does it say "Login failed" near the bottom of the screen?02:25
Dave92f1I've got a window with a blue-grey background, the time/date on the left,02:25
Dave92f1... the person icon with my name and the password box. Outside and below the box "Select your user and etner password".02:25
arraybolt3You're hitting Enter on the keyboard, right?02:26
arraybolt3Not the on-screen keyboard?02:26
arraybolt3(Sorry for silly questions, just trying to figure out what's happening)02:26
Dave92f1Yes. once I start typing with the (real physical) keyboard the OSK goes away.02:26
Dave92f1In fact I can't get the On Screen Keyboard back unless I reboot.02:26
arraybolt3OK, hang tight while I try to reproduce the problem and see if this is a bug in Kubuntu or a problem on your system.02:27
Dave92f1Oh, the top of the screen has a white panel with "Session [box] Layout [flag]" and then a reboot symbol (clockwisey arrow) and power symbol.02:28
arraybolt3Is there a visible "Login" button anywhere on the weird screen?02:28
arraybolt3Any button that looks like a right arrow?02:28
Dave92f1The Session pulldown doesn't offer anything.02:28
arraybolt3Is it set to "Kubuntu" or "KDE" by default?02:29
Dave92f1No right arrow, but there's a > sign to the right of the person icon and a < to the left of it. I'm guessing those are to choose other users. But there aren't others.02:29
Dave92f1Nothing says KDE or Kubuntu on the screen.02:29
arraybolt3Shot in the dark, type your password and then click the > to the right of the person icon.02:30
Dave92f1Except in the Virutalbox title bar "Kubuntu [Running]- Orgal VM VirutalBox"02:30
arraybolt3If that doesn't work... then we're in for a debugging session.02:30
Dave92f1Tried that. Nothing. But if I click on the person icon I get the on screen keboard again.02:31
arraybolt3Blah. OK. Let's log into a terminal. Press Ctrl+Alt+F3.02:31
Dave92f1Um. NOt reliably. OK let me try that02:31
arraybolt3This will switch to a TTY, which is basically a fullscreen terminal session that you can get into even if somehow the greeter is broken.02:31
Dave92f1Ctrl+Alt+F3 does ...nothing.02:31
arraybolt3What keyboard are you using?02:32
arraybolt3Like, the physical brand of keyboard.02:32
arraybolt3Is it an Apple something-or-other? A Dell or Logitech USB keyboard, or...?02:32
arraybolt3Oh, because you're in VirtualBox. Nevermind.02:32
arraybolt3I forgot that this isn't a physical system.02:33
arraybolt3Sigh. I had just figured it out and now you're gone...02:33
Dave92f1Sorry - I ended up rebooting my physical machine.02:35
arraybolt3Hey, there you are! I realized why Ctrl+Alt+F3 didn't do anything.02:35
arraybolt3No problem. :)02:36
Dave92f1Ya, Ctl+Alt-F3 got me a terminal on my physical host machine, not the VM.02:36
arraybolt3So to get to a TTY in VirtualBox, there's a button in the VirtualBox window somewhere called "Soft Keyboard" (I think it's under the Input menu?).02:36
arraybolt3Like Input -> Keyboard -> Soft Keyboard.02:37
Dave92f1Yup, found the SOftw Keyboard.02:37
Dave92f1Now what - I'm at the on screen keyboard again.02:37
arraybolt3Yeah, launch that, and then type your password into the weird login and then press Enter on the soft keyboard and see if that works.02:37
arraybolt3If that doesn't work, then do Ctrl+Alt+F3 on the soft keyboard.02:38
Dave92f1Hm. I clicked Enter on the OSK, got the usual screen, typed my password on the Soft Keyboard. It registered in the box with OOOs.02:38
Dave92f1But then when I press Enter on the soft keyboard, nothing. Just like before.02:38
arraybolt3Yeah sounds like something broke. Do you remember enabling anything called "proposed updates" or "jammy-proposed" while you were fiddling?02:38
Dave92f1Seems like the soft keyboard and the physical keyboard are doing the same thing.02:38
arraybolt3Anyway press Ctrl+Alt+F3 on the soft keyboard and *that* should get you to a TTY in the VM.02:39
Dave92f1No I don't think I enabled those but I did at some point click "Update All" in Discover.02:39
Dave92f1Yes, that did somethign! I've the login: prompt.02:40
arraybolt3OK, type your username and password into the VM now.02:40
arraybolt3THe password will not make any * or O or anything like that when you type it - that's normal.02:40
Dave92f1I'm in at the $ prompt.02:40
arraybolt3OK, can you run "dpkg-query -s kubuntu-desktop"?02:40
arraybolt3(This is one of those rare instances where dpkg comes in handy.)02:40
arraybolt3Don't paste the output please.02:41
arraybolt3Just tell me whether it says if it's not installed.02:41
Dave92f1package 'kubuntu-desktop' not installed.02:41
arraybolt3Yeah there's the problem. Something you installed removed a package that was a part of Kubuntu.02:41
arraybolt3So before fixing that...02:41
arraybolt3...can you run "cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999" and send the link that spits out?02:42
Dave92f1Aha. I was removing things that didn't look useful to me. Like Thunderbird.02:42
arraybolt3That will let me see some of the repos that you have installed.02:42
arraybolt3Yeah, it's possible that removing programs installed by default in Kubuntu removed kubuntu-desktop, which in turn let something vital get removed.02:42
arraybolt3OK, good, I don't see anything -proposed in there. Just making sure.02:43
arraybolt3So with that done, if you don't want some of the Kubuntu default programs, I think there's a way around that.02:43
Dave92f1Those default programs are no big deal. I was just experiementing to see if I could get rid of them easily. I don't mind just leaving them unused.02:43
Dave92f1(Like Thunderbird. Because GMail.)02:44
arraybolt3Dave92f1: If you want to just get this over with, `sudo apt install kubuntu-desktop`. If you want to experiment, `sudo apt install kde-plasma-desktop`.02:44
arraybolt3The former will reinstall everything that comes with Kubuntu by default, the latter will give you a more minimal set and you should hopefully be able to remove stuff you don't want.02:45
Dave92f1I did the latter. It's working on it.02:45
arraybolt3OK, reboot the VM and see if you have anything more usable.02:45
arraybolt3(You can just run `reboot` and it will do it.)02:45
Dave92f1Up and running!02:46
Dave92f1And you were right - Discover has VSCode in a snap.02:46
Dave92f1But not Foxit Reader. But hey, I learned a lot today!02:47
arraybolt3(I was sure it was in there, but not entirely sure if Discover would be able to find it, so glad to hear that it worked.)02:47
arraybolt3Glad I was able to help out, and congrats!02:47
Dave92f1Thanks a lot! This was just a test install, so in extremis I could have just reinstalled from the .ISO, but if this were a real emerncy, I now have an idea what to do.02:48
Dave92f1I guess this is why I was told to setup Timeshift.02:49
arraybolt3Heh, I've never used Timeshift. I have had to reinstall so many times though :P02:49
IrcsomeBot<Omar> Hi07:46
IrcsomeBot<Omar> Is there a way to delet windows 10 partition without formatting the whole disk?07:47
alkisgOmar, sure, just boot with a live cd, and use gparted or kparted to delete the partition you want08:55
=== Hanii_ is now known as Hanii
BluesKajHi all13:57
ubottuAlis is an IRC service to help you find channels. For help on using it, see «/msg Alis help list» or ask in #libera - Example usage: «/msg Alis list http»16:02
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user|63Hi! Everyone, I have a question, there will be Kubuntu pro? Thnx21:34
arraybolt3Probably not.21:35
arraybolt3Kubuntu is an Ubuntu flavor. Ubuntu flavors go EOL in 9 months for interim releases, and 3 years for LTS releases (as opposed to Ubuntu's 5-year support cycle for LTS release).21:35
user|63Ok, thnx21:35
arraybolt3However, Ubuntu Pro should be able to be enabled and mostly work on Kubuntu.21:35
arraybolt3Kubuntu is just Ubuntu with a different set of settings and preinstalled packages, so just enabling Ubuntu Pro on Kubuntu will have a similar effect to enabling it on Ubuntu.21:36
arraybolt3You just won't get official support for a whole 10 years, and the KDE packages will probably not be updated after 3 years.21:36
=== mkv is now known as m4v
=== angelmanjarokde is now known as angelubuntu

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