[14:36] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:59] <santa_> good afternoon everyone
[15:00] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: that discover update you did is missing breaks/replaces, breaking the update from the previous version
[15:02] <santa_> RikMills: ↑ we need to revert this and re-apply for 5.27
[15:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> santa_: I can take care of that.
[15:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> santa_: RikMills is unavailable for a while.
[16:00] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: already? I tought he would be available the weekend
[16:01] <tsimonq2> Still up in the air iirc, probably Tuesday or so, moving on :)
[16:02] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: in any case, if you are available and yo want to help, give me some time and we can discuss a few things
[16:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> santa_: it's going to be split work, plasma-discover just interests me for the reasons I outlined above, and I'm a MOTU so I'm no dummy when it comes to packaging and I understand the Kubuntu way of doing things as I'm already a Ninja, so don't worry.
[16:05] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: I trust you that you are no dummy, but I don't care about nobiliary titles
[16:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, so, don't forget that Kubuntu is not separate from Ubuntu as a whole, and we're only here to help. You don't get to be a gatekeeper here, I've already been contacted to help.
[16:07] <tsimonq2> And I have more upload access than both of you, so, moving on. ;)
[16:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, new plasma-discover uploaded with the proper fixes. That was my fault, sorry.
[16:27] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: I am around at the moment. That could just suddenly change
[16:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills: Good to know.
[16:29] <RikMills> I may have to run and do a bit of travel at short notice due to family reasons
[18:30] <santa_> hello again
[18:31] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: the latest discover upload has breaks replaces in plasma-discover against itself
[18:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> santa_: Only in prior versions.
[18:34] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: the last one is 5.26.90-0ubuntu3 right? that one has breaks/replaces in plasma-discover against itself, that's not needed nor desirable
[18:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> santa_: It breaks/replaces << 5.26.90-0ubuntu2. 
[18:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> I know what I'm doing.
[18:34] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: it's still not needed nor deisrable
[18:35] <santa_> * desirable
[18:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, it's there, and it won't hurt anything.
[18:35] <santa_> well, if you put unneeded breaks, you are making the work of the packaging system more complicated
[18:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, if you keep up this disrespectful attitude, I'm going to pull a Code-of-Conduct violation against you.
[18:37] <santa_> how am I being disrespectful? I'm just pointing out something which I believe, are packaging mistakes
[18:37] <santa_> and the idea is getting the things fixed, not to disrespect anyone
[18:37] <tsimonq2> Guys... chill out
[18:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm not doing another upload to fix something so benign that is more safety than anything.
[18:40] <santa_> sure, but please note that if you move files from one package to another, you need to put the breaks/replaces in the package "receiving" the files, not in the package "donating" them
[18:40] <santa_> anyway, doy mind if I fix this and merge this into the upcoming plasma 5.27?
[18:41] <santa_> RikMills:, Eickmeyer[m] ↑
[18:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> Listen, I take offense when I do something deliberately and it's called a mistake, because there was no mistake.
[18:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> It was a safety measure.
[18:43] <santa_> well, I think you shouldn't take offense, I pointed out what I believe are 2 mistakes:
[18:44] <santa_> 1. not putting breaks/replaces
[18:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> They weren't mistakes. That's your opinion.
[18:44] <santa_> 2. putting breaks/replaces in plasma-discover gaints itself
[18:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> The first one was a misake, that's true.
[18:44] <santa_> I guess we both agree 1, was a mistake
[18:45] <santa_> about the second one, please if you don't believe me, ask for a second opinion
[18:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Apparently you have a horrible opinion of my packaging practices, but you don't know me, which is why you don't trust me being here. Rik trusts me, so does Simon.
[18:45] <santa_> also, you say it's a safety measure, may I ask you against what?
[18:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Against file conflicts, just in case.
[18:46] <santa_> but plasma-discover is always going to share files with its previous version
[18:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> Maybe, but I was just being paranoid. That's all. Nothing wrong with that when it comes to coding and packaging.
[18:47] <santa_> byt that rule, we should be putting breaks/replaces on every package against itself
[18:48] <santa_> anyway, please ask for a second opinion, ok?
[18:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> santa_: First of all, who are you and what makes you an authority on packaging practices? I've given you my credentials (Ubuntu Studio lead, Edubuntu tech lead, Ubuntu master-of-the-universe). Why do you get to dictate what happens here?
[18:49] <santa_> I mean in #ubuntu-devel or so
[18:50] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: I have been working on kubuntu and kde packaging for many years, but I don't expect you to just "trust my authority"
[18:50] <santa_> also, if feel if someone is being disrespectful at this point, that's you
[18:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, I was invited in here, and I feel like you're coming out of the blue and questioning everything I do.
[18:52] <santa_> I'm not coming out of the blue, I have been working on kubuntu for many years
[18:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, Ubuntu Studio shares the same packages, so I've been working on it too, believe it or not.
[18:53] <santa_> and the reason why I'm saying things about discover is because we have an upcoming plas 5.27 release, and these changes need to be merged into there
[18:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> I understand that, and everything you do here will affect Ubuntu Studio as well.
[18:54]  * RikMills catches up
[18:54] <santa_> also, please note that I did most of the automation code that Rik is using to deploy the packages that you use in ubuntu studio
[18:55] <santa_> sometimes I also did many frameworks releases myself using that automation code
[18:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> And that's fine, the automation code is great. I've seen it at work. But, when changes need to be made, they need to be made. This isn't the first time I've had to make a change to the packaging.
[18:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> This IS, however, the first time you've scrutinized it, and I don't appreciate your tone with it.
[18:58] <santa_> well, I scrutinize many things, and if I find problems I usually discuss them with the persons involved
[18:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> Then, why all of the sudden, are you active after being silent for so long?
[18:58] <santa_> for example, I just pointed out recently to RikMills that the frameworks packages were out of sync
[18:59] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: with respect, breaks/replaces against itself is wrong. lets just fix that and move on
[18:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills: Sounds good.
[19:00] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: I have been for the last months out of my country, I was about to resume my things @ kubuntu and then Rik told me he might be unavailable for packaging work
[19:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills: But, it's not an urgent fix.
[19:00] <RikMills> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-discover/5.26.90-0ubuntu4
[19:01] <RikMills> just done it so I don't forget
[19:01] <santa_> is this merged in 5.27 already?
[19:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, nevermind. Apparently you all don't need my help. I'll just bow-out.
[19:03] <RikMills> santa_: when I upload I run a quick bash script that merges bracnhes and pushes tags. since the CI is not there to do it
[19:03] <RikMills> should be in the staging branches
[19:03] <santa_> aha, thanks for the info
[19:05] <RikMills> and now doing a new 5.27.0 ppa build
[19:05] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: we appreciate your contributions, but please don't take offense for criticism
[19:05] <santa_> anyway, other short news:
[19:07] <santa_> - I have been working yesterday all night on fixing something in my experimental build server (systemd dhcp drama)
[19:07] <RikMills> lucky you!
[19:08] <santa_> - I hope to get ready the main one for lunar this weekend (let's see if I have time)
[19:08] <santa_> - I have been evaluating what to do with apps broken git repos
[19:10] <tsimonq2> I'm fixing apps right now, actuallyt
[19:10] <tsimonq2> So no need
[19:10] <tsimonq2> I will upload the fixes when ready
[19:10] <tsimonq2> s/actuallyt/actually/
[19:10] <santa_> - I had a breaks/replaces problem when updating from kinetic to lunar
[19:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> santa_: Just, next time someone comes in and explains who they are and why they're there (when most of the channel already knows), don't treat them like a new contributor. I've also been here for years. You just haven't noticed.
[19:11] <santa_> tsimonq2: how are you fixing it?
[19:12] <RikMills> santa_: fontconfig?
[19:12] <RikMills> that one is known
[19:13] <santa_> Eickmeyer[m]: while I haven't following closely your work, I know that you are not new
[19:13] <santa_> RikMills: is is that fixed, in process to be fixed ...
[19:13] <RikMills> santa_: the fix is in proposed, waiting on tests
[19:14] <RikMills> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#fontconfig
[19:15] <santa_> I see, cool so I can temporarily fix for my testing VMs (very important for package testing)
[19:15] <tsimonq2> santa_: Verifying the status of the repositories as-is, bumping build deps, re-doing changelog entries as needed, probably a quick Lintian run
[19:15] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ just the usual stuff
[19:16] <tsimonq2> the packaging I had in there was in no way finished, if it was I would have uploaded it already :P
[19:16] <santa_> tsimonq2: there is an script to do that
[19:16] <tsimonq2> yes I know
[19:16] <tsimonq2> I've been using it
[19:17] <santa_> also, for the record, with constructive intention, summary of the problems:
[19:17] <tsimonq2> yeah just give me a list, I'll take care of it + do my own checks
[19:18] <santa_> 1. wrong branch: you were suposed to use kubuntu_lunar_staging, not kubuntu_lunar_archive
[19:18] <tsimonq2> I did it on both because I wanted to save time later
[19:18] <tsimonq2> check botgh
[19:18] <tsimonq2>  * check both, I used both
[19:18] <tsimonq2> anyway, next?
[19:18] <santa_> no action needed about this, just keep in mind for future uploads
[19:19] <tsimonq2> cool :) yeah like I said, WIP
[19:19] <RikMills> the archive branch is exclusively to refect the current stage of the archive
[19:19] <RikMills> to for WIP things
[19:19] <RikMills> *not for
[19:19] <santa_> we have the _staging branches for a reason, if you use archive, I can't build what's in the archive + if we need to do an upgent -0ubuntu2 upload we cant
[19:20] <tsimonq2> ...give me the rest of the list, I know you both know how to use Git if it was in a pinch :P
[19:21] <santa_> (just for you to know why we shouldn't use _archive for WIP)
[19:21] <santa_> next thing:
[19:21] <tsimonq2> guessing build deps, maybe a Debian Policy bump/debhelper compat
[19:21] <santa_> 2. no metadata in ka-metadata
[19:22] <tsimonq2> now there is 
[19:22] <tsimonq2> That being said, the tooling is broken
[19:22] <tsimonq2> It tries to get a package list from KDE's FTP and that has an incomplete list
[19:22] <tsimonq2> so updating metadata broke the lists and all of the scripts
[19:23] <RikMills> woork ok here
[19:23] <RikMills> works
[19:23] <tsimonq2> yeah ka-update-metadata -d lunar -r applications -u cut off before kcron
[19:23] <tsimonq2> perhaps because I no longer have SSH access
[19:24] <RikMills> could be
[19:24] <santa_> ok ,we can review that, I take note
[19:24] <santa_> do we still have that thing for videocalls?
[19:26] <RikMills> bigbluebutton?
[19:26] <RikMills> not sure
[19:26] <santa_> yes, is that still working?
[19:27] <RikMills> I can't even find a bookmark any more
 https://kubuntu.blindsidenetworks.net/kubuntu/
[19:29] <RikMills> ah
[19:30] <RikMills> going to have to go in a minute anyway
[19:30] <RikMills> sorry
[19:30] <santa_> thanks for the link
[19:31] <RikMills> user password is welcome IIRC
[19:31] <RikMills> I forget the moderator one
[19:42] <santa_> ah, I have a "normal" password and I can't share my screen
[19:44] <santa_> I'm going to take a 5 mins break...
[19:57] <santa_> argf, I've juts realized I nned to go to the supermarket
[19:57] <santa_> see you a bit later
[21:30] <santa_> back, sorry for the long delay
[21:30] <santa_> so ... thrid problem with apps: the obvious one:
[21:31] <santa_> 3. no bumped build depends -> lots of FTBFS
[21:31] <santa_> regading how to fix 3. things to be done:
[21:32] <santa_> - fix the ka-metadata before anything else
[21:32] <santa_> - help tsimonq2 to get ka-metadata working
[21:33] <santa_> - bump the build depends properly once the metadata is fixed
[21:33] <santa_> - re-upload the packages to the PPA
[21:33] <santa_> - push the changes to git
[21:34] <santa_> tsimonq2: ↑ sou could you manage to get ka-metadata working properly already?
[21:34] <santa_> if not, I can help you
[21:34] <santa_> look:
[21:35] <santa_> if you don't have acess to the kde sftp and that triggered a malfunction you can disable it temporarily in  the configuration file
[21:36] <santa_> [tarball-locations]
[21:36] <santa_> use-kde-sftp = off
[21:38] <santa_> perhaps you already know, but the tarballs listing is stored in ~/.kubuntu-automation/cache/kde_ftp
[21:39] <santa_> so you could remove the files there and re-try
[21:53] <santa_> ah, nevermind about the 1st point, the metadata seems ok in git at the moment
[21:55] <santa_> so at this point you can just:
[21:56] <santa_> do-all bump-build-dep-versions
[21:56] <santa_> an proceed with the rest of the steps
[21:57] <santa_> on my side, I'm going to proceed with frameworks tonight in the staging PPAs
[21:58] <santa_> RikMills: ↑ if you are still around, any objection?
[22:12] <RikMills> santa_: no
[22:12] <santa_> RikMills: ack, thanks
[22:12] <RikMills> I would note simon has uploaded apps to the archive
[22:15] <tsimonq2> I figured it out quite a bit ago... :)
[22:15] <santa_> tsimonq2: can you please push the changes to git then?
[22:15] <tsimonq2> I did
[22:16] <tsimonq2> refresh your pages
[22:20] <santa_> tsimonq2: I'm just doing a git pull, but that is breaking all my clones
[22:21] <santa_> have you done a force-push or something?
[22:25] <santa_> tsimonq2: also, have you tested this in a PPA? the staging PPA seems full of FTBFS...
[22:26] <tsimonq2> not sure about the git pull, staging PPA is widely FTBFS because of depwait which has been solved
[22:26] <tsimonq2> nothing to see here - unless you find an actual FTBFS/Lintian error that I missed
[22:27] <santa_> tsimonq2: well, for example this package is FTBFS'ing in the PPA https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-kdeapplications/+sourcepub/14496176/+listing-archive-extra
[22:28] <tsimonq2> read the log, it's because of a depwait
[22:28] <santa_> I know, but if it wasn't built, how could you test it?
[22:29] <santa_> we usually build the packages in the staging PPAs, then we test, then we upload to the archive
[22:30] <santa_> also, have you checked the status of the packages with 'ppa-build-status' ?
[22:31] <santa_> we usually do that as well before uploading to the archive
[22:33] <santa_> https://kubuntu-automation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/README.html
[22:34] <santa_> ↑ some parts are a bit outdated but most of it still applies
[23:41] <valorie> eek, people please
[23:42] <valorie> tell people what you intend to do before doing it
[23:42] <valorie> communication is key while we adjust to RikMills' absence
[23:43] <valorie> collaboration is critical
[23:44] <valorie> if tooling is broken, let's fix pls