[03:52] <rick_> 154.35.136.18
[17:18] <total-newbie> Hello, I've just installed afresh Xubuntu LTS on my laptop and I can't find the way to connect my bluetooth mouse. Could you help me please ?
[17:20] <gnrp> total-newbie: Do you see the bluetooth logo on the bottom right?
[17:21] <total-newbie> No there is just wifi, bell, speaker and date
[17:22] <total-newbie> I've tried to install "blueman" but it's not found
[17:23] <gnrp> when you go to settings, is there a bluetooth manager?
[17:23] <total-newbie> No
[17:23] <total-newbie> , not at all
[17:24] <total-newbie> Could you tell me the command line to get this functionnality ?
[17:26] <total-newbie> I think there is a problem with installation, I will try again. Thank you guys
[18:27] <Guest9830> Hello, could you tell me how to setup night display ?
[18:35] <krytarik> Guest9830: For starters install redshift-gtk and then see if it works properly ootb.
[20:07] <xu-irc26w> So, since Firefox is forced SNAP package, I moved to another distro. But I'm currious, are there any plans on apt package firefox again ?. if so, I might turn back to Xubuntu.
[20:08] <arraybolt3> Sadly, there is not, as Mozilla asked Canonical to make Firefox into a Snap. However, you can install Firefox from a binary tarball from Mozilla's site and get a similar experience to the pre-Snap version.
[20:08] <arraybolt3> (There's also a PPA with .deb packages of Firefox.)
[20:10] <arraybolt3> (I'd be happy to find it and link to it if you'd like.)
[20:11] <xu-irc26w> Nah its ok. I use Linux MINT Xfce edition, it works perfectly.. I'm just sad to see the SNAP move on Xubuntu.. I really don't wanna use SNAP.
[20:12] <arraybolt3> Yeah, I don't blame you, there's a lot of rough edges. I get why they did it (it does improve security massively), and they've made serious improvements to the launch speed of the browser, but I also kinda wish the .deb was still available.
[20:12] <arraybolt3> (maybe not massively, but it does improve security)
[20:14] <xu-irc26w> I have concerns with SNAP.. I know it's not the right place to ask, but I try anyway, just this once.: the source code ?, I mean, who reads SNAP packages source code to check for malware behaviour ?. and Mozilla can update whenever they want without asking me/the user ?.. its a HUGE no go... no update without my permission, thats a dealbreaker.
[20:15] <arraybolt3> All of the source code of the Snap for Firefox is available AFAIK, including the packaging itself.
[20:15] <arraybolt3> And you can turn off automatic updates in Snap thanks to recent changes.
[20:15] <arraybolt3> Also Canonical writes the packaging and Mozilla the source code, and both of them are trustworthy.
[20:16] <arraybolt3> https://github.com/canonical/firefox-snap for proof that the packaging is open-source, and "snap show firefox" will show that Canonical is the snap publisher.
[20:17] <arraybolt3> Not that you need to use Snap, if you don't like it and prefer LMDE, that's perfectly fine. Just pointing out that some of your concerns have been dealt with.
[20:17] <xu-irc26w> oh, I see.. hmm
[20:18] <xu-irc26w> so maybe I'm not the only person with these concerns. hah
[20:18] <arraybolt3> True.
[20:18] <xu-irc26w> glad to hear, they've improved it then.. but how is the initial startup time for snap apps ?
[20:18] <xu-irc26w> compared to non-snap
[20:19] <arraybolt3> For each snap, it may vary, but for Firefox in particular, they've done a ton of work to make it acceptably fast. It's still a bit slower than the deb was IME, but it's way better than the massive amount of time it took when the Firefox Snap was first a thing.
[20:19] <arraybolt3> (A bit slower to launch - I've not noticed a speed difference in actual operation.)
[20:20] <xu-irc26w> Maybe I should try, at a later time. Or maybe wait till more mature
[20:20] <arraybolt3> Snaps will always be slower to launch than deb packages simply by nature of the fact that they're stored in compressed squashfs files, but the"dang, did the sysystem even register my click?" problem is pretty much solved.
[20:20] <arraybolt3> (Sorry for typos, my connection to my IRC bouncer is lagging :P)
[20:21] <arraybolt3> The most glaring problem that's still left is the "Close the Firefox app to avoid disruptions within 14 days" notice that comes with automatic updates, and they're working on that too. And if you disable automatic updates, I assume that won't happen.
[20:23] <xu-irc26w> I see.. maybe it's best to wait a little longer then. to me that sounds like a beta
[20:23] <arraybolt3> Also I personally just use Google Chrome installed from Google's .deb package since I use Chrome Sync, and everything works perfectly like that. IF you don't like Chrome, that's obviously not an option, but that's what I do and it works.
[20:23] <arraybolt3> (Well, almost perfectly, Chrome doesn't like my graphics hardware all that much, but that's Google's bug, not Ubuntu's :P)
[20:24] <xu-irc26w> I've been using FF since 1.4 or something
[20:25] <xu-irc26w> but I know many use chrome.. its the standard browser in many smartphones nowadays
[20:25] <xu-irc26w> FF sync works good for me
[20:26] <arraybolt3> Well, anyway, hopefully this gives you something good to think about. But really, if you prefer LMDE, do it. If you want to give Xubuntu a shot in the future, great. (Most if not all of the devs here are distro-agnostic, so they won't be like "OH NO SOMEONE BAILED ON XUBUNTU THEY ARE EVIL" or anything silly like that :P)
[20:27] <xu-irc26w> haha..
[20:27] <xu-irc26w> ok.. thanks for answers.
[20:27] <arraybolt3> :) Glad to help!
[20:27] <xu-irc26w> I didn't know SNAP has been improved that much
[20:27] <xu-irc26w> since I dont use it. :P
[20:29] <xu-irc26w> and the idea of snap.. is has its own dependencies, right ?. so, then what about the whole linux dependency-sharing thing ? (cant remember the english word for it)
[20:29] <arraybolt3> Heh, yeah they've done a lot of work on it. I'll be happy to see the "close the app to update" notice go away or at least work right.
[20:29] <arraybolt3> xu-irc26w: Snap lets each package include most of its dependencies inside of itself to reduce compatibility issues.
[20:29] <arraybolt3> To some degree, that eliminates much of the dependency sharing, which comes with both advantages and disadvantages.
[20:30] <arraybolt3> Advantages include better compatibility and less possible problems with dependency updates. Disadvantages include disk size and (maybe) RAM usage.
[20:30] <arraybolt3> Snap gets around disk size problems by packaging software in compressed squashfs'es, which is part of what causes a slight performance disadvantage.
[20:30] <xu-irc26w> ooooh... that means.... many SNAP apps can be made with waaaaay old dependecies because ..... hmmm.. maybe I'm wrong
[20:31] <arraybolt3> They can be, and depending on the snap vendor, they may be.
[20:31] <arraybolt3> However, old deps can have security vulns, so I would expect that Canonical wouldn't leave old software verisons in the Firefox snap. You can probably check by looking at the packaging.
[20:32] <arraybolt3> But for snaps uploaded by some random person on the Internet, especially if they aren't being maintained actively any more, they may have old dependencies. Those won't interfere with other software, though, unless something really weird happens that probably isn't even possible.
[20:34] <arraybolt3> In general, don't use Snaps made by people you don't trust, and you should be good, especially if the snap creator has a checkmark next to their name when you look at the snap's info with "snap info" or "snap search".
[20:35] <xu-irc26w> I used to be all in for Xubuntu, but the SNAP thing was the only thing that pushed me away from it.. and theres not many distros "as of I know about" that are clean, made with XFCE in default and without SNAP..
[20:39] <arraybolt3> If you wanted, there's a Snap-less Debian variant made by some of the Xubuntu devs, however it's based on Debian Sid and so you get the disadvantages of running software that may possibly break or change behavior drastically as it's a rolling development release.
[20:39] <arraybolt3> If you're a very advanced Linux user, you might give it a shot, otherwise LMDE is probably safer.
[20:39] <arraybolt3> (It's called Xebian if that sounds interesting, the IRC channel for it is #xebian.)
[20:40] <arraybolt3> (It's designed to be Xubuntu-like.)
[20:40] <xu-irc26w> I remember when I used Debian testing.. I was told it was a good middleground of stable and edge. then I switched to stable, but the too dated apps lead me to ubuntu.. and then Xubuntu.. and now MINT
[20:41] <arraybolt3> Debian Sid is more "severe" than Testing - you get newer software but also have to deal with the developer's mistakes and possibly experiments. It's called Sid after the Toy Story character who is known for breaking toys, so... yeah.
[20:41] <xu-irc26w> ok.. I rate myself as a noob still.. but I can do some shell commands when needed.. I try not to tinker too much.. it's like playing world of warcraft.. takes too much time. lol
[20:42] <arraybolt3> lol
[20:45] <xu-irc26w> I remember having problems getting wifi drivers to work on debian.. I made small progress on improving myself, but I realized that my time is spend better otherwise, so I moved to ubuntu.. also for better media support out of the box.
[20:46] <xu-irc26w> improving myself/my skills tinkering in linux
[20:49] <xu-irc26w> my family wants me to switch to windows again... I think ARE THEY CRAZY.... with their move to everything has to be logged uploaded to servers, ads everywhere you can't easily turn off, random, and FAR TOO OFTEN forced updates. ?!.... no thank you... I stay in LINUX- thank you very much... in here I have no forced ADS, and just an unmark for check
[20:49] <xu-irc26w> updates and then I'm completely undisturbed.. I don't understand why people don't at least try LINUX.. its so much better, even for everyday use.. it's not 2002 anymore.
[20:50] <xu-irc26w> anyway... thanks for your self.. I will think about giving Xubuntu a try later- if I get tired of MINT sometime
[20:50] <xu-irc26w> self=help
[20:51] <arraybolt3> Heh, wonder why they would want you to go back to Windows? It's not like Microsoft is going to go out of business if you use Linux :P
[20:52] <arraybolt3> FWIW, automatic updates do have good uses, as security vulns can be left if you don't update and a malware infection is a very bad thing, possibly even more so for businesses. But I also get wanting to only apply them manually for safety's sake.
[20:53] <xu-irc26w> but with regular updates, how can I be sure my development tools will not be broken ?.. I feel like I have to have it turned off to be sure
[20:53] <arraybolt3> Very good point.
[20:54] <xu-irc26w> I'm also afraid of, if an update resets-redefaults my settings in some apps.. very important they stay my settings.
[20:54] <arraybolt3> (One cool thing about Ubuntu is that you can disable all updates except for security updates by tweaking /etc/apt/sources.list, so if you want consistency above all else but without risking your system's life, you can do that.)
[20:54] <arraybolt3> (Though Snaps kinda bypass that, but you cna turn off automatic snap updates so that's manageable too.)
[20:54] <arraybolt3> *can
[20:58] <xu-irc26w> every 6 months or so, I re-ensure my backups on a USB stick, and THEN I do manual updates.. crossing fingers every time that nothing breaks, even tho I have backup... I'm just crazy
[20:58] <arraybolt3> I personally have yet for a development tool to break as a result of an update... but my experience is not reflective of how everyone else's setups work, and other people have had their tools break thanks to an update, so I get what you're saying.
[20:58] <xubuntu> hiiiiiii
[20:58] <arraybolt3> xu-irc26w: That seems smart, not crazy. Though personally I'd use a tool like BorgBackup and do frequent backups and more frequent updates - six months is an awfully long time to have exposed security vulns laying around.
[20:58] <arraybolt3> xubuntu: o/
[20:59] <xubuntu> \help
[21:02] <xu-irc26w> the worst part is upgrading to a higher version of, lets say Python3, so find out that 10% of your code will become deprecated because I use so many builtin methods.. all because I didn't check for deprecations before upgrading.
[21:06] <arraybolt3> Ugh, Python is the worst with that. A nice thing about Ubuntu though is that they avoid full version updates if at all possible, instead backporting fixes to older versions of the software, so that things like that are very unlikely to happen.
[21:06] <arraybolt3> (Debian does this too, I believe, though I'm not entirely certain.)
[21:09] <xu-irc26w> and now my problem is procrastination, but thats another story.. hah.. thanks again.. goin now, bye
[21:10] <arraybolt3> o/