[01:35] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:48:26 PM +0330] <duuude> "the default games on OSes are for when people get bored and don't have network access. I did see many people making use of the ones on Windows XP/7."
[01:35] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:48:32 PM +0330] <teward> but there's been pushback on that before so I've left it alone, if ISO size is a problem then I would be happy to make a decision to cut stuff if our dev lead agrees with.
[01:35] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:48:53 PM +0330] <teward> but my statement remains: we're not changing the games we ship at the moment
[01:36] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:49:40 PM +0330] <teward> i'm open to discussion for this for next cycle, but we're 2 months away from a release so it's a little late to be making major ISO changes
[01:36] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:51:28 PM +0330] <duuude> well, neither is the office suite, neither is snap etc. the primary reason people install lubuntu as a distro, but people don't install these general-use distros with pre-installed utilities for one single primary purpose
[01:36] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:52:28 PM +0330] <duuude> people, or at least me, want to save time looking for software when they want to do a simple thing, like bluetooth, scanning, making a doc or whatever
[01:36] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:52:56 PM +0330] <duuude> boredom-killing stands along those lines
[01:36] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [7:54:10 PM +0330] <duuude> well, next cycle is ok too, better late than never
[01:36] <duuude> [Tuesday, February 15, 2022] [8:08:30 PM +0330] <teward> given we're 2 months away, my decision is "We'll strip things from the ISO to fit the sizes we need, but we won't add or change anything else for the 22.04 LTS cycle". Next cycle and later we're free to make changes, but not 2 months out from release since we've already done a bunch of testing and such
[01:37] <duuude> --------------
[01:37] <arraybolt3> duuude: I assume this is a question about whether we can remove 2048-qt from Lubuntu?
[01:38] <duuude> hello, nbsdgames are 18 games that are already on ubuntu repos, and they are collectively lighter than 2048-qt
[01:38] <duuude> it is more fun for less space
[01:38] <duuude> would you include them? they are basically better in every way
[01:38] <duuude> arraybolt3: yeah
[01:39] <arraybolt3> I probably don't have the authority to say that myself, but that's a good point. They are terminal-based though, do they happen to make entries in the Application Menu when they are installed?
[01:39] <duuude> it does have an application entry
[01:39] <arraybolt3> (I personally am actually somewhat of a fan of 2048-qt but could easily stand to see it leave the ISO, I can always reinstall later.)
[01:39] <duuude> it takes you to a colorful menu
[01:40] <duuude> where you can choose the player name, see scores, choose a game and play it
[01:40] <arraybolt3> I'll take a look at it.
[01:41] <arraybolt3> I don't see anything technical preventing us from doing that on the surface.
[01:41] <teward> once again
[01:41] <teward> you poke us about changing things 2 months before a release RIGHT as we approach feature freeze
[01:41] <duuude> lol
[01:41] <arraybolt3> teward: Hey, Feature Freeze hasn't hit yet!
[01:41] <duuude> is the next one lts?
[01:42] <arraybolt3> Nope, 24.04 will be though.
[01:42] <teward> duuude: to reiterate my original statement: bug us next cycle.  which means **after** we release a new version and development opens
[01:42] <teward> every 2 years is LTS< 24.04 is an LTS
[01:42] <arraybolt3> So like, in three months, not six.
[01:42] <teward> but interim releases allow us to stage/test
[01:42] <teward> arraybolt3: april for 23.04
[01:42] <duuude> arraybolt3: play miketron btw
[01:42] <teward> if they want us to change things we probably should do so BEFORE the LTS
[01:42] <teward> (and thanks for pinging me while i'm boozing it up at a super bowl watch party with mom dad and friends)
[01:42] <duuude> lol
[01:43] <arraybolt3> duuude: I don't see any application menu entry for nbsdgames
[01:43] <teward> you can stop it with the random 'lol' posts by the way
[01:43] <teward> (they're not needed here)
[01:43] <guiverc> any changes done now will impact 23.04 & subsequent releases (22.04 is released & gets SRUs only)
[01:43] <teward> ^^ correct
[01:43] <duuude> indeed
[01:43] <teward> but we approach Feature Freeze for 23.04 within a week so it's a little late in the cycle to change what's seeded on the image
[01:44] <duuude> so I should come 2 months later?
[01:44] <arraybolt3> duuude: I don't see the menu you mentioned, and it took me way longer than it should have to even figure out where the games went.
[01:44] <arraybolt3> (After installing them.)
[01:44] <duuude> arraybolt3: well I have debian and it is there for me
[01:45] <arraybolt3> TO the user, it appears that all games vanished - one would have to be advanced *and* know they were there to find them on Lubuntu.
[01:45] <arraybolt3> So that would probably be a no-go even when we have the opportunity to add them.
[01:45] <duuude> you can enter nbsdgames in the terminal to see the menu
[01:45] <arraybolt3> Doesn't do anything on Lubuntu 23.04.
[01:45] <teward> arraybolt3: isn't nbsdgames a collection of games that get added to Games and not given its own menu?
[01:45] <teward> in *buntu I mean
[01:45] <arraybolt3> lubuntu@lubuntu:~$ nbsdgames
[01:45] <arraybolt3> nbsdgames: command not found
[01:45] <arraybolt3> teward: It does, yes.
[01:45] <duuude> what is the version in the repo?
[01:46] <arraybolt3> duuude: 5-4.
[01:46] <arraybolt3> (So version 5, Debian package revision 4.)
[01:46] <teward> which is the same version that's been in Debian stable since its first upload.
[01:47] <duuude> are you sure it got installed?
[01:47] <arraybolt3> Very sure, I can play individual games from it.
[01:47] <teward> duuude: you do realize that not all games get added to *all* things' application menus right?
[01:47] <duuude> i should check with the debian maintainer
[01:47]  * guiverc just installed nbsdgames on my box; nothing appeared in menu either on my lunar box
[01:48] <duuude> teward: i didn't get your sentence
[01:48] <duuude> but for me, it is in the games menu
[01:48] <teward> then you have no understanding of DEs.
[01:48] <teward> each DE doesn't necessarily reflect identical behavior with each other
[01:48] <teward> duuude: and you're uisng LUbuntu?
[01:48] <teward> and tested on our daily ISOs for 23.04?
[01:48] <teward> or are you using Debian straight up?
[01:48] <teward> and what's your DE?
[01:49] <duuude> i am on debian lxqt
[01:49] <teward> debian lxqt != Lubuntu
[01:49] <duuude> yeah, will test on lubuntu too
[01:49]  * guiverc can look in debian later, but I'm using Lubuntu right now & this is a Lubuntu dev room
[01:49] <teward> that should be your first step before reporting about bugs, etc.
[01:50] <teward> always test on Lubuntu before asking questions here
[01:50] <teward> *may be grumpy due to booz*
[01:50]  * guiverc can't find any entry in any menu/submenu for it..
[01:51] <duuude> given that even the nbsdgames command isn't there, it is probably the debian guy's fault
[01:51] <duuude> but you can check the github
[01:51] <duuude> there is a .desktop, svg, the aforementioned menu
[01:52] <teward> GH != Debian either
[01:53] <teward> but if you go look at the source repo for the packaging, https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/nbsdgames shows the file too
[01:53] <arraybolt3> :shrug: I mean, maybe it's fixable, but... I dunno. I actually didn't particularly like any of the games I tried :P
[01:53] <teward> the question is whether they've decided to *deploy* it there, and `nbsdgames` itself might not be a command
[01:53]  * guiverc changelog in debian testing & ubuntu lunar look ~identical
[01:53] <teward> ($PATH does NOT use .desktop files)
[01:54] <teward> and $PATH is *not* always populated with `/usr/games/` in all deployments
[01:54] <teward> which is why `nbsdgames` might not be found as a command
[01:54] <duuude> good point
[01:54] <teward> (see debian/install on that repository I linked and then check your $PATH on a default installation to make sure that it's actually there for CLI)
[01:54] <arraybolt3> Anyway, perhaps revisit this for 23.10 (so come and ask about two weeks after 23.04 is officiall released). We might be able to help fix things then and possibly make this happen, if it is quality enough.
[01:54] <arraybolt3> (Not trying to talk over teward, just trying to help things along.)
[01:54] <tsimonq2> And, you can easily confirm with apt-file show nbsdgames too
[01:54] <teward> ^
[01:55] <teward> tsimonq2: you owe me a coffee
[01:55] <teward> unlike genii who sent me the 20 gallon drum last week so :P
[01:55]  * arraybolt3 slaps teward with the Nuclear Coffee Maker
[01:55] <tsimonq2> teward: coffee and booze don't mix well do they :P
[01:55]  * teward pushes arraybolt3 out the airlock and into the vacuum of deep space
[01:55] <arraybolt3> duuude: (We do this among ourselves, don't be alarmed.)
[01:56]  * duuude wonders how could a nuclear coffee maker work
[01:56] <teward> tsimonq2: depends on whether i'm making an irish coffee or not
[01:56] <tsimonq2> teward: also I think my city owes your city a trophy soon or something lol
[01:56] <teward> orly?
[01:57] <tsimonq2> Vince Lombardi was from Green Bay :P
[01:57]  * arraybolt3 goes and gets food and then returns to LXQt duty
[01:57] <teward> heh
[01:57] <arraybolt3> I like the idea of nbsdgames though, I hope we do revisit it for 23.10.
[01:58] <arraybolt3> (Maybe if I put it in The List it won't get forgotten :D)
[02:00] <duuude> arraybolt3: will add a 2048 for you
[02:01] <duuude> fifteen is similar, it is about swiping numbers too
[04:20] <arraybolt3> Whew. Five packages left to repair from Debian syncs, we're almost done!
[19:45] <teward> tsimonq2: wake up you are needed
[22:35] <Eickmeyer> teward: Imagine that ping actually working?
 teward: i was pinged why was I pinged
[22:43]  * arraybolt3 locks airlock solidly
[22:43] <kc2bez> !cookie | teward