[21:16] <arraybolt3> aaronprisk[m], Fallen: Ubuntu Advantage used to have a pricing tier for individual server VMs. Ubuntu Pro doesn't have that, what happened to it?
[21:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I could be wrong, but I believe it just becomes the regular Ubuntu Pro tiers.
[21:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> Server/non-server, doesn't matter for individual use.
[21:25] <aaronprisk[m]> I believe Eickmeyer is correct. For personal use, they're handled the same. The only VM related tier is when you're licensing physical hosts with a presumably large number of VMs.
[21:25] <aaronprisk[m]> I can verify with Pro folks.
[21:44] <leftyfb> aaronprisk[m]: how goes the battle in removing the pro advertisement from apt?
[21:52] <aaronprisk[m]> Hey leftyfb, there are active conversations between our folks and the Community Council on addressing community concerns. An update and FAQ should coming out soon with some more information. Once we know more we can share it with you all.
[21:52] <leftyfb> Oh I really hope the solution isn’t just a FAQ. They need to remove advertisements from apt
[21:55] <leftyfb> the solution to doing a bad thing is to stop doing the bad thing, not answer common questions about or clarify the reasons behind doing the bad thing
[21:57] <aaronprisk[m]> I believe there are some changes and improvements coming with it as well. I don't want to speak to specifics as I don't know all of them just yet.
[21:57] <leftyfb> we can only hope :)
[22:16] <arraybolt3> aaronprisk[m]: If you can verify that, that would be great. I assume that means that VM servers would use Desktop licenses?
[22:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: It would mean there's no differentiation between desktop and server for personal use.
[22:19] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer[m]: I meant for if you're paying for it.
[22:20] <arraybolt3> A user in #ubuntu-server wants to license cloud VMs with Ubuntu Pro but isn't using AWS/GCP/that sort of thing.
[22:20] <arraybolt3> Ubuntu Pro can be purchased through AWS and the like.
[22:20] <arraybolt3> But they're using an "unsupported" cloud hosting provider.
[22:21] <arraybolt3> With UA, there was a specific pricing tier for licensing individual VMs rather than the whole physical server they ran on.
[22:21] <arraybolt3> But Ubuntu Pro no longer has that tier.
[22:21] <arraybolt3> If it merged into "Desktop", then that's easy, but otherwise, how are people in such a situation supposed to license the VMs? Surely they aren't supposed to use the physical server license.
[22:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3 (@arraybolt3:libera.chat) : As community supporters, we don't handle pay tiers, nor should we be answering or attempting to answer those questions. They should contact Canonical Sales directly.
[22:22] <arraybolt3> This would also be handy for people who use a VM server that doesn't run Ubuntu but that uses Ubuntu VMs, or for people who don't have enough VMs to justify paying a full $500/yr.
[22:22] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer[m]: That's a valid point.
 "But they're using an "unsupporte..." <- So your question is: "Can I use a personal Pro token for an Ubuntu server VM, and if not, how do I go about licensing those individual server VM's?"
[22:32] <aaronprisk[m]> Correct?
[22:33] <arraybolt3> aaronprisk[m]: True.
[22:33] <arraybolt3> (I assumd that the personal ones were good for server VMs, it's the "how to go about licensing the individual VMs" question I had, for instance if one has more than 5.)
[22:40] <aaronprisk[m]> I was able to get an official answer on this:
[22:40] <aaronprisk[m]> - Yes, you can use a personal token on an Ubuntu Server VM (This applies to desktops, servers, workstations, robots, etc.) As long as you stay under that 5 count limit.
[22:40] <aaronprisk[m]> - For anything beyond that limit or for support options, they can contact the sales team who do still have VM products available. 
[22:40] <arraybolt3> Ah, makes sense. Thanks, that will help in the future!
[22:42] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer[m]: I do see your point about "they should contact sales", but IMO, we as the community do have an awful lot of knowledge about how Ubuntu Pro works (and have some good contacts for finding out the bits we don't know, thanks aaronprisk[m]), so if we can give the answer and the person's right there, why not? We can always direct them to Sales if we get really stumped.
[22:43] <arraybolt3> Anyway, /me goes back to grumbling that the archive is b0rked by python3 *again* and then starts debugging KDE
[22:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I took a peek at your conversation. The minute they mentioned they wanted to pay, then it really becomes a matter of "contact sales". As aaronprisk (@linuxap:matrix.org) has mentioned, there will be an FAQ out soon. Oftentimes, contacting the sales team will give them a faster answer than a volunteer in a chat room.
[22:46] <arraybolt3> Hmm, OK, I guess I can see how that works.
[22:46] <arraybolt3> (Wow, VBox has slaughtered my KDE dev VM. Again. I hate VBox.)
[22:47] <arraybolt3> Oh wait, it's because I had QEMU on in the background. nvm.
[22:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> ope
[22:47] <aaronprisk[m]> arraybolt3: Join the KVM brotherhood...
[22:47] <arraybolt3[m]> aaronprisk[m]: ikr? If only KDE devs liked KVM...
[22:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> aaronprisk[m]: We have cookies, and sometimes pudding.
[22:48] <arraybolt3[m]> But, they don't. I have to use VBox for at least some parts of KDE development.
[22:48] <aaronprisk[m]> That's surprising. Do you know why?
[22:49] <arraybolt3[m]> VBox is Qt-based. All good QEMU frontends (and even QEMU itself) are GTK or GNOME-based.
[22:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Basically because it fits better in the KDE ecosystem they like it more.
[22:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer[m]: Says the VBox user :P
[22:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Uh... you can use KVM via Vbox, you know.
[22:51] <aaronprisk[m]> I'm going to lose some *buntu points here, but Cockpit is pretty great if you're looking for another option.
[22:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer[m]: If you mean the "KVM paravirtualization" feature, I'm pretty sure they mean that VBox will *mimic* KVM, not that it will use it.
[22:51] <arraybolt3[m]> You can use Hyper-V paravirtualization on Linux too.
[22:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> aaronprisk[m]: I use Cockpit on my server for administration. It's in the archives, easily installable. I wouldn't say that loses *buntu points at all since it brands itself with the Ubuntu logo and everything.
[22:52] <arraybolt3[m]> aaronprisk[m]: Meh. Tried it, hated it. VM console was too laggy.
[22:53] <aaronprisk[m]> Eickmeyer[m]: That's true. I'll retain my points.
[22:53] <aaronprisk[m]> arraybolt3[m]: You could always attempt to build your own hackey KVM management tool like I did.. you'll learn all about the joys of libvirt's janky php library.
[22:54] <arraybolt3[m]> aaronprisk[m]: Believe it or not, I've done that in Bash before :D https://github.com/ArrayBolt3/vm-isotest I use this pretty much daily.
[22:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> aaronprisk (@linuxap:matrix.org) Oh! Completely unrelated: May I direct your attention to this changelog entry: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/2.799
[22:55]  * arraybolt3[m] goes afk, see ya all later o/
[22:57] <aaronprisk[m]> Awesome! How is edubuntu dev coming along?
[22:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> Pretty much just formalities at this point, and it's back.
[22:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> We've got the installer which customizes it for the age group, and a menu administrator which customizes the menu for non-admin accounts.
[22:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> Menu = GNOME application overview
[22:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Also, uses Alphabetical App Grid by default.
[22:59] <aaronprisk[m]> Eickmeyer[m]: Do you happen to have that code handy anywhere?
[23:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Two locations for that:
[23:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+git/edubuntu-installer
[23:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+git/edubuntu-menu
[23:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> All done in bash script utilizing zenity.
[23:05] <aaronprisk[m]> This is really cool. Nicely done! 
[23:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> Thanks!