[00:40] <arraybolt3> https://9to5linux.com/kubuntu-focus-nx-mini-linux-pc-gen2-ships-with-12th-gen-intel-cpu-wi-fi-6e Apparently the author of this article believes that Kubuntu 22.04 is going to upgrade to KDE Plasma 5.27. I assume this is a mistake on the part of the author, not an actual plan that we're making and think we're somehow going to get through the SRU process?
[00:41] <arraybolt3> "As expected, the Kubuntu Focus NX Gen2 comes pre-installed with the latest Kubuntu 22.04 LTS (Jammy Jellyfish) operating system, which is supported for three years until April 2025 and should soon be upgraded to the long-term supported KDE Plasma 5.27 LTS desktop environment series."
[01:15] <mparillo> https://xkcd.com/386/
[01:16] <arraybolt3[m]> lol, I was making sure that I hadn't missed something.
[01:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: Nothing has been announced yet. The only thing that can be misconstrued is a conversation in #plasma:kde.org between myself and Rik Mills with him "experiementing" with it, but the Qt is a few point-releases behind and has a few bugs, hence the experimentation.
[01:19] <arraybolt3> K, thanks!
[14:01] <ahoneybun[m]> Mm who can log into the twitter account?
[14:03] <ahoneybun[m]> RikMills the 2FA code is going to your kubuntu email address.
[19:19] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: Hey, thanks for the update!  Eickmeyer[m]: I was going to ping you and Rik about the possibility of 5.27 LTS, as this does make a lot of sense for 22.04 LTS, since so many of the bugs we reported did get resolved there, and backporting looks like it's perhaps more trouble than it's worth. Also, 5.27 does have some nice features.
[19:26] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: Rik is playing with it experimentally, but as stated, it's on a slightly older point release of Qt 5.15 than it was designed for. So, the question is whether or not it will work or be too buggy. Backporting Qt 5.15.8 would require a huge amount of rebuilding.
[19:28] <mmikowski> That said, be careful what you wish for :) I've seen quite a few bugs in Dolphin recently (via kde bugs), but hadn't heard  if this is specific to 5.27.
[19:30] <mmikowski> Thanks Eickmeyer[m]. Yeah, and updating Qt ("Backporting Qt 5.15.8...") sounds majorly painful.
[19:30] <mmikowski> I'll ask him about it too.
[19:31] <mmikowski> As you know, it's hardware seasons (yeah!). So that makes this sort of development work extra hard. Plus we just validated the latest kernel so there's another release.
[19:32] <mmikowski> Remind me to be born rich next lifetime.
[19:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: Imagine having to rebuild every single package that depends on Qt. That's what it would entail.
[19:35] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m]: Yeah, I remember talking about that.
[19:36] <mmikowski> Also, that would require an SRU for each of those, right?
[19:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, for each Qt component, but the rebuilds would just be no-change rebuilds. However, the SRU for the Qt update would get NACK'd just because of the amount of rebuilds required.
[19:38] <mmikowski> NACK => "Absolutely, and without reservation, denied"
[19:39] <mmikowski> Right? :)
[19:41] <mmikowski> Is it possible to update QT just in backports? Of course, I suspect that would then require all dependent packages would also need to be updated. While that might be a non-issue for all KDE stuff, I wonder how many other packages would need to come along for the ride. In any event, it could be messy.
[19:46] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m]: Are you interested in 5.27 in Ubuntu Studio 22.04 too? I was going to leave a note for RikMills here to see if we can help. It sounds like a full test like we do might be a real help./
[19:47] <mmikowski> Heck, we even test lots of qt apps that are not part of KDE/plasma, and that would probably be very helpful in determining confidence.
[19:49] <ahoneybun[m]> Rik is taking a step back from things so I don't know if he will replied mmikowski
[19:49] <mmikowski> Oh, thanks ahoneybun[m]! I did not know that.
[19:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: NACK = Negatively Acknowledged, so yes. And in backports, Kubuntu has a policy of not doing that, because even updating Qt in backports requires carrying every single application and reverse dependency of Qt in the backports PPA.
[19:49] <ahoneybun[m]> Simon Quigley is the POC for packaging things I believe.
[19:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: And, yes, having an upgraded Plasma LTS in the LTS is always a nice-to-have, but yeah.
[19:50] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m]: Yeah, that's what I thought :\
[19:50] <ahoneybun[m]> I believe for 5.26 or something it was breaking upgrades from 22.04 to 22.10.
[19:50] <ahoneybun[m]> This PPA will NOT currently receive Plasma 5.26 for Jammy 22.04, as this would break subsequent upgrades to Kinetic 22.10.
[19:50] <ahoneybun[m]> That's on the PPA: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports
[19:51] <ahoneybun[m]> Now this might change with 23.04 though so maybe?
[19:51] <ahoneybun[m]> It's not a good idea to go from 22.04 -> 22.10 -> 23.04 anyway.
[19:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> ahoneybun: That's because 22.10 carries 5.25.
[19:52] <ahoneybun[m]> Ah that would do it.
[19:52] <ahoneybun[m]> So if we can get 5.27 in 23.04 it shouldn't be an isuse?
[19:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Correct.
[19:52] <ahoneybun[m]> Now getting that to happen is a different thing.
[19:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> As it is now, 5.26 is in lunar, so it's not an issue now.
[19:52] <ahoneybun[m]> I believe Simon is a MOTU so maybe that would help.
[19:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Simon is a core dev.
[19:52] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m]: Ok, well I guess the best we can do is offer extensive testing. I have a trained team available this week, so if there are experimental builds, we could at least report on that.
[19:53] <mmikowski> +cc Eickmeyer[m] ^^^
[19:53] <ahoneybun[m]> It's odd because we should be able to have the PPA just build something for a release like 23.04 right?
[19:53] <ahoneybun[m]> Oh wait nevermind.
[19:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> That's what the staging PPA is for.
[19:54] <mmikowski> hmmm, let me look at staging and ninjas...
[19:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> There's an entire automated workflow that santa_ developed that Simon know how to work.
[19:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, I wouldn't stress it right now.
[19:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> We've got a few things going on: 22.04.2 and Feature Freeze for 23.04 are landing on the same day: Thursday. Those are taking focus.
[19:57] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m] ahoneybun[m]: I see 5.27.0 is already in kubuntu-ppa/backports-landing.
[19:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right now, Plasma 5.27 is a nice-to-have.
[19:57] <mmikowski> let me see if that is available for 22.04...
[19:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> (for backporting)
[19:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, priorities. :)
[19:57] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m]: Of course, agreed!
[19:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: Right, that's part of Rik's experiment. If it's in Jammy, then feel free to test that, but since we're looking at Qt 5.15.2 as opposed to 5.15.8... there be dragons.
[19:59] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m]: Agreed.  Definitely nothing to take lightly.
[20:00] <mmikowski> We could at last try it and see if it is a mess or works well, and could probably get a preliminary review in a day.
[20:01] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m] ahoneybun[m]: And then I could report to Simon? Rik? Both?
[20:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: Hard to say. tsimonq2 is Simon.
[20:02] <mmikowski> fwiw, the 5.27.x is actually not available for Jammy. Its for 22.10. So unless it's in Ninjas... (I'll check)
[20:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, no clue where Rik put it.
[20:02] <mmikowski> Thanks Eickmeyer[m]. I'll ping him soon. But priorities - gotta kernel to package :P
[20:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, you should have an hwe kernel now.
[20:03] <mmikowski> hahah, that's actually a good point.
[20:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> 5.19 iirc
[20:04] <mmikowski> Well, there's more work.
[20:04] <mmikowski> that needs thorough testing.
[20:05] <mmikowski> Well, at least we got the latest CERTS in. Will look at the 5.19. The 6.0 and 6.1s have, to date, not worked well.
[20:10] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m] ahoneybun[m]: Bah, no 5.27 in either ppa:kubuntu-ninjas/plasma or ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports, at least not for 22.04. Please let me know if you see it. +cc RikMills
[20:10] <mmikowski> kk, back to kernels.
[20:10] <mmikowski> Thanks for the heads up Eickmeyer[m]!
[20:12] <mmikowski> Also, same to you ahoneybun[m]!
[20:34] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m] ahoneybun[m] FWIW, 5.27 for 22.04 is found in the experimental ppa. https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
[20:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> I knew he stuck it somewhere.
[20:36] <mmikowski> yeah, I'm sniffing around to see it it is elsewhere. Installing it now. Wish me luck :)
[20:38] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m]: it appears for 22.04 only in experimental. Let's see how this goes.
[22:04] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m] arraybolt3 ahoneybun[m] FYI, i tried the 5.27 from experimental. Love the wallpaper, but there are some tweaks to get sddm and other features to work. Put aside for additional investigation on a dedicated NVMe.
[22:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: I find that strange considering sddm isn't part of the release and there were no changes to sddm itself.
[22:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> (remember SDDM isn't a KDE project)
[22:08] <mmikowski> Eickmeyer[m]: Yeah, I know. There's configs for SDDM though for KDE, and those get mucked about. Oddly, sddm came up with openbox config, and openbox got installed. So I couldn't get past that for a graphical login.
[22:09] <mmikowski> I've got a list of packages that got changed; there's not a lot of changes. Oddly, the plymouth theme also changed to UbuntuStudio. Which looks nice, but unexpected.
[22:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> mmikowski: You need to test this on a pure kubuntu system. It changed to ubuntustudio because of the alternative defaults I had set, remember?
[22:10] <mmikowski> No worries, I'll get it sorted out when I have a dedicated disk. I just tried this on a whim on my machine, and it wasn't plug-n-play, so it took a bit even after ppa-purge to get everything in place.
[22:10] <mmikowski> Sure Eickmeyer[m]!
[22:12] <mmikowski> Yeah, the alternative default came update because the kfocus theme got removed, as did a few other kfocus packages (like kfocus-hw). So just a bit of detective work required.
[22:12] <mmikowski> As it is, I've got other fish to fry now, so that'll have to wait.
[22:12] <mmikowski> Thanks!