IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> I'm willing and able to make any requested changes per a KC vote00:11
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> In my honest, personal opinion, arraybolt3 is right wrt "if we make it easy for users to install Flatpaks, it makes it easy for users to blame us for something outside of our control and quality scope"00:12
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> That being said, I have the exact same concerns about snaps00:12
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> I will point to the beginning of this cycle when all dailies were failing, Lubuntu and Kubuntu included, because someone didn't create a 23.04 track for the Firefox snap00:13
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> That took three weeks.00:13
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> When this was brought up for Lubuntu, my response was "why are we falling victim to the Streisand effect?"00:14
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> The timing is certainly curious, and makes me feel uneasy on a community level, despite completely agreeing from a technical standpoint00:15
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> snaps and the beginning of this cycle> I can trust in good faith that it won't happen again, but honestly it makes me slightly uncomfortable that as an Ubuntu Core Developer I can't open a snap branch... but I digress00:17
valorieI have ff from flatpak so was unaware that there was a snap issue00:19
valorieI mean, I guess that there have always been various .deb issues00:19
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> As per TB policy, a new channel for the Firefox snap must be created for every individual release00:19
valoriethere is no perfect packaging00:20
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> It's never been used to expedite fixes since ratified in 2017, besides by the ISO tooling00:20
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> That's the truth as well00:20
valorieI'm not religious about any of it -- just had bad luck with snaps early on and lost patience00:21
valoriewhat I am somewhat religious about is all of us being in the same boat and using our oars to get to the same place00:22
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> I would note as well, as Canonical's community team, their full time job is fixing exactly that... the perception of Canonical's products in the community00:22
valoriethat's been my issue with them since the jono bacon days00:23
IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> I get the technical part of it mainly and the plan is to make it a smooth process for users which is the key to me.00:24
valorieIMO this is not about snaps or flatpak, it's about our team00:25
valoriewe're losing rik for an unknown length of time00:25
valorieso each person in this conversation is increasingly important, including santa_ who has not said anything today here00:27
valorieand everyone wears lotsa hats00:27
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> That's just part of being around this long ;)00:31
IrcsomeBot<tsimonq2> sitter is totally right at the very least in one way: millions of users depend on whatever decision we make here00:35
IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> I want to get more involved but it kinda feels like we're just skating by without a direction and even more so without Rik.00:47
IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> That's why I wanted meetings to find out what our plans are and figure it all out.00:48
Fallenfwiw my team is not here to fix perception, I'm more interested in creating a welcoming experience and providing focus so contributors are working on something meaningful when they contribute to *buntu.07:02
FallenIt is easy to say Canonical = snaps and I am just catering to that, but the CC also agrees that that snaps do happen to be the direction that Ubuntu has taken. And this change also isn't about snaps vs flatpak, but more about focusing on the fundamental technologies that Ubuntu has chosen.07:06
FallenIf Ubuntu were to bet on debs 100%, we'd still be having this conversation.07:06
FallenThis whole issue aside, my team is happy to help getting organized while Rik is out. Mauro may have reached out to some of you on that.07:07
IrcsomeBot<Rick_Timmis> Well we are where we are now, and the announcement is out. I think we'll do more damage by back tracking. I'm in favour of a post to kubuntu.org about how to enable them.17:44
valorie@Rick_Timmis how to enable what? both snaps and flatpaks?22:45
valorieI think snaps have been enabled by default in Discover for some time although I could be wrong22:45

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