 I'm willing and able to make any requested changes per a KC vote
 In my honest, personal opinion, arraybolt3 is right wrt "if we make it easy for users to install Flatpaks, it makes it easy for users to blame us for something outside of our control and quality scope"
 That being said, I have the exact same concerns about snaps
 I will point to the beginning of this cycle when all dailies were failing, Lubuntu and Kubuntu included, because someone didn't create a 23.04 track for the Firefox snap
 That took three weeks.
 When this was brought up for Lubuntu, my response was "why are we falling victim to the Streisand effect?"
 The timing is certainly curious, and makes me feel uneasy on a community level, despite completely agreeing from a technical standpoint
 snaps and the beginning of this cycle> I can trust in good faith that it won't happen again, but honestly it makes me slightly uncomfortable that as an Ubuntu Core Developer I can't open a snap branch... but I digress
[00:19] <valorie> I have ff from flatpak so was unaware that there was a snap issue
[00:19] <valorie> I mean, I guess that there have always been various .deb issues
 As per TB policy, a new channel for the Firefox snap must be created for every individual release
[00:20] <valorie> there is no perfect packaging
 It's never been used to expedite fixes since ratified in 2017, besides by the ISO tooling
[00:20] <valorie> system
 That's the truth as well
[00:21] <valorie> I'm not religious about any of it -- just had bad luck with snaps early on and lost patience
[00:22] <valorie> what I am somewhat religious about is all of us being in the same boat and using our oars to get to the same place
 I would note as well, as Canonical's community team, their full time job is fixing exactly that... the perception of Canonical's products in the community
[00:23] <valorie> "perception"
[00:23] <valorie> that's been my issue with them since the jono bacon days
 I get the technical part of it mainly and the plan is to make it a smooth process for users which is the key to me.
[00:24] <valorie> yes
[00:25] <valorie> IMO this is not about snaps or flatpak, it's about our team
[00:25] <valorie> we're losing rik for an unknown length of time
[00:27] <valorie> so each person in this conversation is increasingly important, including santa_ who has not said anything today here
[00:27] <valorie> and everyone wears lotsa hats
 That's just part of being around this long ;)
[00:33] <valorie> truth
 sitter is totally right at the very least in one way: millions of users depend on whatever decision we make here
[00:38] <valorie> yep
 I want to get more involved but it kinda feels like we're just skating by without a direction and even more so without Rik.
 That's why I wanted meetings to find out what our plans are and figure it all out.
[07:02] <Fallen> fwiw my team is not here to fix perception, I'm more interested in creating a welcoming experience and providing focus so contributors are working on something meaningful when they contribute to *buntu.
[07:06] <Fallen> It is easy to say Canonical = snaps and I am just catering to that, but the CC also agrees that that snaps do happen to be the direction that Ubuntu has taken. And this change also isn't about snaps vs flatpak, but more about focusing on the fundamental technologies that Ubuntu has chosen.
[07:06] <Fallen> If Ubuntu were to bet on debs 100%, we'd still be having this conversation.
[07:07] <Fallen> This whole issue aside, my team is happy to help getting organized while Rik is out. Mauro may have reached out to some of you on that.
 Well we are where we are now, and the announcement is out. I think we'll do more damage by back tracking. I'm in favour of a post to kubuntu.org about how to enable them.
[22:45] <valorie> @Rick_Timmis how to enable what? both snaps and flatpaks?
[22:45] <valorie> I think snaps have been enabled by default in Discover for some time although I could be wrong