[13:24] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:50] <ahoneybun[m]> Heyo BluesKaj 
[13:50] <BluesKaj> hey ahoneybun[m]
[13:50] <ahoneybun[m]> Morning
[17:54] <mmikowski> Morning ahoneybun[m]!
[17:55] <mmikowski> Many BluesKaj always stops in, says hi, and then is gone by the time I appear. One of these days I'll catch him.
[17:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey all
[17:57] <ahoneybun[m]> morning mmikowski 
[17:58] <mmikowski> btw, still working like crazy on 5.27 + 22.04.2. It might happen!
[17:58] <mmikowski> Morning ahoneybun[m]
[17:58] <arraybolt3[m]> \o/
[17:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Dunno if anyone here knows about it (probably so), but this thing needs testing: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-testing-networkmanager-yaml-settings/32420
[17:59] <ahoneybun[m]> mmikowski: you mean for KFocus only? I doubt we'll enable it.
[17:59] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm currently getting ready to test it on Lubuntu, thought I might mention it since I didn't notice ahoneybun get pinged in the announcement in #ubuntu-flavors:libera.chat.
[17:59] <ahoneybun[m]> I mean maybe when 22.10 is EOL.
[18:00] <ahoneybun[m]> I'm not in there.
[18:00] <arraybolt3[m]> ahoneybun[m]: Pretty sure he means for kubuntu-backports.
[18:00] <ahoneybun[m]> That will not go into backports.
[18:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, then I must be confused.
[18:00] <ahoneybun[m]> 5.26 broke upgrades from 22.04 to 22.10.
[18:00] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m] oh no, backports.
[18:00] <mmikowski> right kubuntu-backports.
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> The stuff about Network Manager was announced in the -flavors channel as:
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> ```
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> 14:00 <slyon> hey @Eickmeyer @tsimonq2 @RikMills @arraybolt3 @fossfreedom! I'd like to ask you for help with testing an upcoming change that we're planning to enable early in the Lunar+1 cycle: NetworkManager & Netplan integration. This might also affect the flavors using NetworkManager on their corresponding Desktop system, and I wonder if you could help testing the current state and report any issues that you might find?
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> ```
[18:01] <mmikowski> We upstream as much as we can. 
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks Matrix for making that one giant line.
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> s/might/mightalso/, s/also//
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]>  * The stuff about Network Manager was announced in the -flavors channel as:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/9c455e86e46656e5c6fa73043590db544f7f78f3>)
[18:01] <ahoneybun[m]> mmikowski: pretty sure it can't go into backports.
[18:01] <arraybolt3[m]> OK that's more manageable.
[18:02] <arraybolt3[m]> ahoneybun: For some reason I thought mmikowski and Rik Mills were working on getting it into Backports?
[18:02] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m]: ^^^ see arraybolt3[m] comment :)
[18:02] <ahoneybun[m]> Not that I know of.
[18:02] <arraybolt3[m]> It's already in the experimental backports repo.
[18:02] <arraybolt3[m]> s/repo/PPA/
[18:03] <ahoneybun[m]> I mean I know it's in there.
[18:03] <mmikowski> So, lemme rephrase - I'm not on the Kubuntu board so it isn't my call. But I've spoken with timo and rik, and they are interested in getting it into backports.
[18:04] <mmikowski> There have been some technical issues and usability issue our team has been working through - desktop checks, and installation issue.
[18:04] <mmikowski> There is progress on both. 
[18:04] <mmikowski> Including identifying library issue on upgrades that users might see.
[18:05] <mmikowski> So ahoneybun[m], so I'm just reporting back how that's going, keeping everyone in the loop.
[18:06] <mmikowski> While there is a qt version issue, but difference is minor and may have little impact on usability. At present, there is only one known bug that appears due to this slightly older QT base, but even that might be addressable, and it is not a critical bug.
[18:08] <mmikowski> Once we get everything stable, we have historically sent a comprehensive functional review to Rik and Nate which they have used as a data point for determining how to proceed with new updates.
[18:09] <mmikowski> As I said, I'll keep everyone in the loop!
[18:10] <ahoneybun[m]> I'm not 100% here so I can miss these things I'm sorry about that.
[18:10] <ahoneybun[m]> If Rik signs off on it I trust him.
[18:10] <mmikowski> Fully understand. Sometimes I'm 100%; sometimes I'm 0.
[18:11] <mmikowski> Depends if I'm working on stuff like this  (100%) or hardware configs (0%).
[18:11] <mmikowski> :)
[18:11] <mmikowski> I'm certain you can understand!
[18:19] <ahoneybun[m]> Oh yea
[18:32] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m]: I've mentioned it a few times before, but not in great detail as it is experimental. But it's looking more feasible now.
[18:33] <ahoneybun[m]> I have the backports PPA added though not sure how I feel about that since I work on the Manual which is expecting stock software in 22.04.
[18:33] <ahoneybun[m]> Does KFocus have any docs/manual or a WIP one?
[18:33] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m] it does change a few things.
[18:33] <mmikowski> We have documented the functional changes.
[18:34] <mmikowski> More coming. Little things, like desktop grid needs to be tweaked a certain way to keep its prior default behavior.
[18:34] <mmikowski> Also, 5.27 removes the right-click-to-exit option.
[18:35] <mmikowski> This is wip, so we haven't share any of that yet, since even the probability of an upgrade is still somewhat speculative.
[18:35] <ahoneybun[m]> I'm just wondering if we can work together on the manual since you are only shipping 22.04 as well.
[18:36] <mmikowski> An example find is that lib requirements weren't including i386 libs, so people with steam install might result with a broken upgrade. RikMills[m] changed that today, and it looks good so far, but more testing is required.
[18:37] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m] I think that would be very useful. We have lots of stuff at https://kfocus.org/wf that is frequently upgraded, and there is a lot that is Plasma 5.24 specific. We will need to upgrade that to 5.27 if it hits backports.
[18:37] <mmikowski> So totally open to that!
[18:37] <mmikowski> Heck, we could even include a link to that on the desktop.
[18:43] <ahoneybun[m]> I want it in the ISO somehow but I don't package.
[18:56] <ahoneybun[m]> mmikowski: source code is here: https://github.com/kubuntu-team/kubuntu-manual
[19:00] <mmikowski> thanks ahoneybun[m]. We could definitely help out. First pass might just be a content review, then plan additions together.
[19:01]  * arraybolt3 is a packager
[19:01] <mmikowski> bwhahah
[19:01] <mmikowski> Who let arraybolt3 in here!
[19:01] <arraybolt3> lol, I've been here this whole time!
[19:02] <arraybolt3> Anyway mmikowski is also good with packaging, but if it would be helpful, I could probably package the manual and leave you guys more time to write it.
[19:02] <ahoneybun[m]> mmikowski: Sounds good to me!
[19:06] <mmikowski> Thanks arraybolt3! We could include it an icon in a layout theme. Making it easily available for all Kubuntu users would be great, and that could be done by modifying the default themes to have the icon on the desktop. I'm not certain how kosher that is to the upstream, but maybe.
[19:06] <arraybolt3> Lubuntu actually did something similar in 22.10 and 23.04.
[19:06] <mmikowski> arraybolt3 and ahoneybun[m]: I am not a MOTU, so that's where arraybolt3 and RikMills[m] come in.
[19:06] <arraybolt3> I'm not a MOTU either :P
[19:07] <arraybolt3> I have upload access to the Lubuntu packageset, though, so I get good experience.
[19:07] <arraybolt3> In Lubuntu, we reached into pcmanfm-qt and patched it to include a special desktop icon that was treated like other icons such as the Home folder icon.
[19:07] <arraybolt3> I don't know if that's an approach Kubuntu wants to take, but that's one possible way of doing things.
[19:08] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: you see the kfocus theme settings with the widgets; I can write the JS layouts like that all day long.
[19:08] <arraybolt3> Personally, I figured I would just make a package that would plop a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications that would start a PDF viewer pointed at the manual.
[19:08] <mmikowski> So I could propose a default layout for Kubuntu.
[19:09] <arraybolt3> There's a default Kubuntu theme, right? That should be easy enough to mod.
[19:09] <mmikowski> Right.
[19:09] <arraybolt3> And then you can just make the shortcut point to the desktop file, right? Then it would be on the desktop and in the application menu.
[19:09] <mmikowski> Yeah, and then drop the icon on the desktop. Now if you want a fancy layout, e.g. always at top-right corner, then you need layout JS.
[19:10]  * arraybolt3 is not a JS expert, so I'll leave that to you :D
[19:10] <mmikowski> again, that's what we do with the kfocus themes.
[19:10] <mmikowski> I've written books on JS :)
[19:10] <arraybolt3> :O
[19:10] <arraybolt3> Nice.
[19:10] <mmikowski> "Single Page Web Applications, Javascript end-to-end".
[19:11] <arraybolt3> I used to know enough to make text appear and show rudimentary prompts on IE 6... >_<
[19:11] <arraybolt3> (ok so it wasn't quite *that* bad but that was the software I was working with and I was still very basic at it. Never got past that point.)
[19:11] <mmikowski> Note the last part. It was a best-seller about 10 years ago. I wrote 4 chapters for a follow up, but didn't finish it. So yeah, I'm pretty hand with the stuff.
[19:12] <mmikowski> Hey, everyone has their niche.
[19:12] <arraybolt3> Anyway, I'll take the latest iteration of the manual real quick and throw it in a PPA. You guys can tell me what you want changed and what needs integrated. Sound like a plan?
[19:14] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: https://github.com/mmikowski/hi_score/tree/master/doc/spa-manuscript-v2. If you walk through the chapters, you'll get a decent review of pure JS and oddities about the language and how to solve them.
[19:15] <arraybolt3> mmikowski: Wow, thanks!
[19:16] <mmikowski> yw! ahoneybun[m], I'll have a team member give the docs once over and provide suggestions on existing content, and also suggestions on inclusions. Sound cool?
[19:16] <ahoneybun[m]> Sounds good.
[19:19] <mmikowski> kk, I will open and assign a ticket and include that repo in the scope.
[19:20] <mmikowski> Also, fyi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/2009136 <= 22.04 systems may have broken HDMI sound.  Not sure how wide-spread this issue is.
[19:20] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2009136 in linux (Ubuntu Kinetic) "No HDMI audio under 5.19.0-35 (regression from -32)" [Undecided, In Progress]
[19:29] <mmikowski> arraybolt3 and ahoneybun[m]: https://imgur.com/a/t7RhkbR
[19:30] <mmikowski> clean upgrade. What this means is it works now with common apps. There were missing libs before. So installation looks good now.
[19:32] <arraybolt3> mmikowski: WOOHOO!
[19:34] <mmikowski> Yeah. Will there are some creaky bits and migration bits which are not trivial, getting 22.04 LTS to 5.27 LTS seems like a good idea. Even if it's just a lateral move overall, 5.27 will continue to get love for a long time. The 5.24.7 in existing 22.04 LTS backports is not, even though it is an "LTS" release.
[19:34] <mmikowski> So more testing coming tonight.
[19:47] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m]: Internal ticket created. First pass is slated for tomorrow or friday-ish.
[19:47] <mmikowski> We'll get a separate branch for a PR created.
[19:48] <mmikowski> kk guys, I gotta get some chow and a second dose of Sumatran dark roast. I'll be back later. 
[22:53] <arraybolt3> OK, I *almost* have a working Kubuntu Manual package, just needs a .desktop file to be functional. But then I also would like to integrate it with a watch file for automatic update pulling, and that will take some version number and rules file changes...
[23:03] <arraybolt3> Lovely. uscan doesn't like PDF files.
[23:04] <arraybolt3> Well that makes my life easy, but it also means we're going to be relegated to a manual update.
[23:16] <arraybolt3> Success!
[23:16] <arraybolt3> I now have a Kubuntu Manual button in my application menu.
[23:16] <arraybolt3> Pushing to a PPA, will share a link hopefully soon.
[23:19] <arraybolt3> ahoneybun[m], mmikowski: https://launchpad.net/~arraybolt3/+archive/ubuntu/kubuntu-manual/+packages
[23:22] <arraybolt3> I put it under the "Education" section since I wasn't sure where else fit best.
[23:32] <ahoneybun[m]> Omg
[23:32] <ahoneybun[m]> Yes
[23:33] <ahoneybun[m]> I've been waiting this for so long.
[23:33] <ahoneybun[m]> *wantinf
[23:33] <ahoneybun[m]> Mm
[23:33] <ahoneybun[m]> *wanting
[23:35] <arraybolt3> Also it currently has a hard depends on Okular, which is *probably* too strict, but might be OK since Kubuntu ships with Okular. Just if someone uninstalls Okular because they like Evince better or something, the manual shouldn't disappear with it.
[23:35] <arraybolt3> (And also there's other technical reasons - if someone wants to install the Kubuntu Manual on something other than Kubuntu, it shouldn't have to pull in Okular and an entire army of KDE deps.)
[23:36] <arraybolt3> But I'm not sure how best to overcome that - maybe it can depend on multiple PDF readers and a script can try to execute each one until one works?
[23:36] <arraybolt3> Maybe Okular first, then Evince, then x-www-browser?
[23:37] <arraybolt3> Anyway, just some thoughts. Feel free to hork the packaging and throw it on GitHub or whatever for collaboration, everything's under the same license as the manual itself.
[23:52] <ahoneybun[m]> I'll learn how to do that perhaps in time