[05:19] <mmikowski> Thanksa arraybolt3! I'll poke around :)
[05:21] <mmikowski> ok, poked :)
[05:22] <mmikowski> So it gets it into users' app list. Now I know this is normally frowned upon, but is there a way to get it onto people's desktops?
[05:29] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: I can provide tested code to do that if that is something others want.
[05:55] <arraybolt3> mmikowski: It sounds good, the problem is that doing stuff like this is (as far as I know) quite invasive.
[05:56] <arraybolt3> mmikowski: The xdg specs make it easy to get something in everyone's app lists. But there isn't an XDG way of getting something on everyone's desktop that I know of.
[05:56] <arraybolt3> Without a system-wide way of modifying user's desktops, an apt package would have to modify the desktops *of an individual user*.
[05:57] <arraybolt3> For obvious reasons, that requires scripting since there's no way to be sure what a user's home directory will be called, but it also introduces extra complexity and a ton of extra edge cases. For instance, what happens if a new user is created? Can a hook be made into the user creation process to get the shortcut on their desktop too? What happens if the user uses more than one DE?
[05:58] <arraybolt3> It's probably doable, but because of how invasive and difficult it is, I would be worried about it.
[05:59] <arraybolt3> As for whether a trick like that would be allowed in the Ubuntu package archives, that's a question for the Debian Policy Manual, which is what I'm checking now.
[06:02] <arraybolt3> Meh, taking time to find it, might have to check in later.
[06:12] <arraybolt3> mmikowski: One possible solution would be to put the manual shortcut in the right spot in /etc/skel and then use a script to put it in the directories of all existing users? The use of /etc/skel for this sort of thing is discouraged but *not* prohibited by policy. I don't know how kosher the script part would be.
[13:34] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:30] <ahoneybun[m]> Heyo BluesKaj and condor 
[14:30] <BluesKaj> hey ahoneybun[m]
[19:06] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: The problem with skel is its once-and-done. That is, if the skel change does not occur before the user is created, then the icon will never appear for that user. 
[19:07] <arraybolt3> Thus the script to add it to existing users.
[19:07] <mmikowski> Depends on how ahoneybun[m] wants it done.
[19:07] <mmikowski> Right
[19:07] <arraybolt3> skel just makes it easy to cause new users to have it, at least that was my thinking.
[19:08] <mmikowski> There's also dragons when adjusting skel; you *really* don't want to mess with the defaults IME.
[19:08] <mmikowski> We do a /usr/local/sbin/adduser.local for kfocus additions.
[19:09] <mmikowski> That way any Ubuntu changes get propagated as they mandate, but then we add a bit of sugar on top (like a pro-level .vimrc).
[19:11] <mmikowski> Adding a single icon to users desktops once on install seems fine to me. We could even add a drop file so if that it doesn't keep adding it on every upgrade, which is certainly more friendly that constantly forcing the user to delete it if they don't want it.
[19:11] <mmikowski> However, just showing it to them once will notify them of the availability, which is probably a good thing.
[19:12] <mmikowski> One could install on all desktops, or possibly sniff for the installing user and only install there.
[19:13] <mmikowski> IMO, the first is probably the better option; it's already written too. So ahoneybun[m] wants to consider.
[19:16] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: about edge cases: One can put it into skel/Desktop (pretty safe) and into postinst.
[19:16] <arraybolt3> Yeah, that was my idea essentially.
[19:17] <arraybolt3> Something like "for i in `ls /home`; do cp /usr/share/applications/kubuntu-manual.desktop /home/$i/Desktop/; done"
[19:17] <mmikowski> Right. If ahoneybun[m] wants to try it out, I can dig out the code. We would want to add the drop file per user if it isn't already there.
[19:18] <mmikowski> btw, the cool part about the per-user drop file means ever user created after installation will always see the icon at least once before they delete it.
[19:18] <arraybolt3> That seems nice.
[19:18] <mmikowski> So if that is the mission, it will be accomplished for all.
[19:19] <mmikowski> And yes, the code is basically as above, just refined for edge cases etc.
[19:19] <mmikowski> IIRC; it's been quite a while since we used it.
[19:19] <mmikowski> Now our icons go into a theme, and they haven't changed in quite a while.
[19:20] <mmikowski> kk, bbiab. I'll dig it out, perhaps today.
[19:20] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: I mean, count on it today.
[19:20] <arraybolt3> +1
[19:21] <arraybolt3> I may be somewhat scarce today due to other stuff I'm having to do, so if I'm not available when you ping, that's probably why.
[19:49] <ahoneybun[m]> Which ever is better 
[19:58] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m]: My vote from a UX standpoint, is always show the icon to each user once.
[19:59] <mmikowski> That's the whole point of making the package available. Of course, if it gets upstreamed, the "automatically add to each user's desktop" function will no longer ever be called becasue the skel will include the drop file to signal to the code not to add the icon again.
[20:19] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: Do you want to test 5.27 on your kfocus system?
[20:22] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m] It should also be improved for stock kubuntu too now since RikMills added some i386 packages which apparently were needed by steam (this is not 100% confirmed, btw). In any event, just sudo add-apt-repository:kubuntu-ppa/experimental if you want to try it out.
[20:22] <mmikowski> arraybolt3: you might benefit from test packages, but probably not worth it right now.
[20:38] <ahoneybun[m]> Sorry looking at a wedding venue.
[20:40] <mmikowski> hey ahoneybun[m], you gotta focus on what's important in life! You can get back to that wedding stuff later! ;)
[20:40] <mmikowski> Seriously though, if you're getting married, congrats@
 "arraybolt3: Do you want to test..." <- Yes, very much so.
[20:46] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll add it and try it out.
 "ahoneybun It should also be..." <- Once the packages are officially released, I'll be able to remove the PPA for safety, right?
[20:47] <mmikowski> arraybolt3[m]: Right.
[20:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice, I'll add it and reboot.
[20:47] <mmikowski> I have a list of open issues for the upgrade.
[20:47] <mmikowski> hold it hoss!
[20:47] <mmikowski> Just be careful!
[20:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, OK.
[20:48] <mmikowski> if you see the upgrade trying to remove anything but 4 replaced libraries, it *will* hose your system, and not in a nice way :P
[20:48] <arraybolt3[m]> lol, don't worry, I can unbreak things if they seriously shatter on me, but I'll hold it and wait.
[20:48] <arraybolt3[m]> K, got it.
[20:49] <mmikowski> Oh, no, I'm not saying you have to wait for anything, I was just suggesting you carefully review the update before squeezing the trigger.
[20:49] <mmikowski> :)
[20:49] <arraybolt3[m]> I probably would have noticed it about to blow up... but I shattered a Debian Sid VM once because I failed to check :P
[20:50] <mmikowski> Here's what should be REMOVED: 
[20:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Worst case scenario I would have just reinstalled, and the setup system is fast enough that wouldn't have been too painful.
[20:50] <mmikowski> just 4 libs, looking them up right now.
[20:50] <mmikowski> oh of course! 
[20:51] <mmikowski> I just wanted to help save you some trouble based on personal experience.
[20:51] <arraybolt3[m]> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[20:51] <arraybolt3[m]>   libkf5screen7 libkwineffects13 libkwinglutils13
[20:51] <arraybolt3[m]> End of list.
[20:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks fairly safe to me.
[20:51] <mmikowski> Right, thats it.
[20:51] <mmikowski> You should be golden!
[20:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
[20:51] <mmikowski> hahaha
[20:52] <mmikowski> Just one relog away after the install.
[20:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks like it's trucking along. I know from experience that Plasma updates can make things go a bit haywire, so I'm going to close up shop until I can reboot and then be back. If you don't hear from me until day after tomorrow... you'll know what happened :P
[20:53] <ahoneybun[m]> mmikowski: not yet but yes I am. 
[20:53]  * ahoneybun[m] uploaded an image: (237KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/wQfsJxLEsXMGdOhJiXLMxYnQ/PXL_20230310_203737384.jpg >
[20:54] <arraybolt3[m]> (That experience mainly being from fighting with KDE nuclear_explosion... ER... neon, which had a tendency to go crazy during full recompiles.)
[20:54] <mmikowski> again, congrats! Getting married was one of the best decisions of my life.
[20:55] <mmikowski> If you don't expect too much, you will almost always be delightfully surprised, and I was.
[20:55] <mmikowski> ^ ahoneybun[m]
[20:56] <mmikowski> ahoneybun[m]: I'm not seeing elvis anywhere though ...
[20:57] <arraybolt3[m]> ahoneybun[m]: Wow, congratulations, and may all go well!
[20:58] <ahoneybun[m]> Elvis was at her first wedding lol
[20:58] <ahoneybun[m]> He's not invited this time.
[21:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, unpacking stage started, 👋
[21:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Still alive!
[21:07] <arraybolt3[m]> KDE Plasma version is 5.27.2, looks like it worked!
[21:40] <clivejo> arraybolt3[m]: on Lunar?
[21:40] <arraybolt3[m]> clivejo: Jammy.
[21:41] <clivejo> ah ok
[23:21] <valorie> @ahoneybun[m] - pretty! When are you thinking of tying the knot, and am I invited?
 "@ahoneybun[m] - pretty! When are..." <- 4/20/24 and yes but didn't know if you wanted to travel.
[23:34] <valorie> I've been trying to plan to visit y'all for three years
[23:36] <valorie> and I want to make Thomas take a bit of time off and drive around CO a bit with me
[23:36] <valorie> I've been to Manitou Springs as a teen and really nothing else except the Denver airport
[23:37] <valorie> oh, and driving the lonely road between Nebraska and Denver, which I really liked
[23:38] <valorie> a few hundred miles where the only sign a human had been there was the road, some fences and the occasional oil rig
[23:38] <valorie> everyone else thought it was boring; I loved the peacefulness
[23:59] <valorie> I also want to visit the grave of one of my second-great-grandfathers