[01:27] <user|76> Hi when I orginally mapped a PWA of outlook to my taskbar it worked good, although I didn't want a copy on the desktop main screen so I deleted it. The icon in the taskbar reamians but it has a white page with the top right folded over , I wanted to change the appearance of the icon but it looks like you can't change that icon maybe ? please help
[01:38] <arraybolt3> user|76: Does the button with the white page still work? I assume it does.
[01:38] <arraybolt3> In any event, there's almost certainly a .desktop file that just needs changed to point to the icon of your choice.
[01:39] <arraybolt3> (If the button doesn't work, though, that icon on the desktop may have actually been important. But I don't think that's the case.)
[01:39] <user|76> yes it does work
[01:39] <user|76> but i don't want the white page icon i want the outlook icon visual there instead
[01:39] <arraybolt3> OK. One moment...
[01:40] <arraybolt3> user|76: Can you find the Outlook PWA in your Application menu, right-click it, click "Edit Application...", then take a screenshot and upload it to Imgur and send the link?
[01:40] <arraybolt3> (That will let me see where the .desktop file for the PWA is.)
[01:40] <arraybolt3> You can upload a screenshot to Imgur directly in the screenshot app if you'd like.
[01:41] <arraybolt3> The button for that is Export -> Share -> Imgur (in the Spectacle app that pops up when you hit Print Screen).
[01:43] <user|76> https://i.imgur.com/5MJ7wGF.png
[01:45] <user|76> where u able to see it?
[01:45] <arraybolt3> Ugh, that... isn't what I hoped to see :P
[01:46] <arraybolt3> That's weird, it's not showing a specific .desktop file at all.
[01:46] <user|76> yea its coming from the web this case brave... so heres what happened so you have more context
[01:47] <arraybolt3> Try right-clicking on the white page, then click "Unpin from Task Manager". Then find the Outlook PWA in your application menu again, right click it, and click "Pin to task manager", to see if that gets it to behave itself.
[01:47] <arraybolt3> (It can see the logo in at least one spot, it's just... grumpy.)
[01:47] <user|76> ok let me try
[01:48] <arraybolt3> If that doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in. And if that doesn't work, then we'll dig deeper.
[01:48] <user|76> ok that worked
[01:48] <arraybolt3> \o/
[01:49] <user|76> strange why it was showing that. I know originally it was showing an icon on the actual desktop then also on the taskbar. when i deleted the one for the desktop it was fine until i restarted the device then i noticed the grey page of grumpy
[01:50] <arraybolt3> Yeah I dunno. I've had PWA icons (mis)behave in similar ways before, not sure why.
[01:50] <arraybolt3> Thankfully I've also had them work pretty much as they should, so hopefully it should just keep working right now.
[01:50] <user|76> I wanted to ask how is linux protect for viruses/ crashes un expected errors compared to Apple and Windwos
[01:50] <arraybolt3> That's sort of a complicated question, but I can try to give a good answer.
[01:51] <arraybolt3> The main reason Windows benefits from an antivirus is because the Windows ecosystem encourages users to grab random apps from random places on the Internet and install them. This is insecure by design, as it makes it easy for any random guy to release malware and distribute it.
[01:52] <arraybolt3> Linux (or at least Ubuntu and many other distros) encourages users to get apps from vetted and guarded app stores, like the Ubuntu archives, Snap Store, etc.
[01:52] <arraybolt3> So it's a lot harder to get hacked on Linux because you're downloading apps that are either safeguarded from being dangerous (in the case of Snaps) or that have been looked over to ensure that they're reasonably safe (in the case of the Ubuntu archive).
[01:53] <arraybolt3> Now you *can* also install software from random places via third-party repos, AppImages, etc., and that can still give you trouble, but as long as you only get those apps from trusted sources, you should be good.
[01:53] <arraybolt3> Really, the need for an antivirus is created by how you use the computer. Even Windows doesn't need an antivirus if you know what you're doing. Linux just makes it easier to avoid doing it wrong.
[01:53] <arraybolt3> (It's also open-source, meaning it's a lot easier to find and fix security holes.)
[01:54] <arraybolt3> (Whereas Windows's closed-source nature makes it so that only MS and possibly closely trusted partners can find and fix bugs legally, making it easier for bad actors to find and exploit bugs illegally.)
[01:54] <user|76> ahh yea i figured especially with the open source part
[01:55] <arraybolt3> As for crashes/unexpected errors, there is crash reporting in Ubuntu.
[01:55] <arraybolt3> So those with the ability to fix bugs can be alerted of them. However, we also rely heavily on users giving us good bug reports so that we can help fix problems.
[01:55] <arraybolt3> I've never used anything in the Apple ecosystem other than an iPhone, so I don't have much of a comment there.
[01:55] <user|76> i also noticed and saw there is a clear separation from the kernal  and the operating system i think it is? so that when a crash does occur i noticed that is contained and shows an error by the basic software keeps on going
[01:56] <arraybolt3> True, but that's been a thing in all major operating systems for many years now.
[01:56] <arraybolt3> (Windows ME and prior didn't have that very much, and could go haywire easily. Windows NT and later have that. Linux has always had it, I believe. And Apple has had it since at least the first release of OS X.)
[01:57] <user|76> I noticed in windows though that when running updates or when a page freezes the entire operating system just freezes until it works it out
[01:57] <arraybolt3> Hmm, well depending on the app, you could take down the whole entire UI, but that could happen on Linux too (and in fact has happened to me).
[01:57] <arraybolt3> I've personally had the experience of Linux being more stable in that regard than Windows, though.
[01:58] <arraybolt3> But that's a subjective measure.
[01:58] <user|76> yea true.
[01:59] <arraybolt3> From what I've seen, the biggest sources of malware in Linux are via untrusted apps in software repositories that allow any random person to upload stuff.
[01:59] <arraybolt3> Repos like pip and npm for example.
[01:59] <arraybolt3> But you're unikely to use those unless you're either a developer or doing advanced projects.
[02:00] <arraybolt3> And even if you do use those, trusted projects should rely only on trusted dependencies and keep everything safe. (Dependency hijacking can be a thing though, but we're getting deep into the weeds here. The main takeaway is, if using ap ackage manager other than apt or Snap (and to some degree when using Snap), look at what you download before you download it.)
[02:01] <arraybolt3> (Really that's good advice when using anything, even apt, but it's more important with package managers in Ubuntu other than apt and Snap.)
[02:01] <arraybolt3> (Also this is Ubuntu-centric advice - package managers in other distros are likely also trustworthy, but this is a Kubuntu chat so I'm focusing on (K)Ubuntu.)
[02:03] <arraybolt3> Anyway, hopefully that wasn't an information overload :P
[02:05] <user|76> yea thanks a ton. I noticed the snap for brave was really slow but then i realized brave has a specific download just for linux. it loads like 10X as fast
 hi all
 last kernel update  isn't showing up in the grub or used by my system it uses the previous one and it keeps the old kernels  how can i make it use the latest one installed and remove the old kernels ?  https://termbin.com/nqmt
[05:54] <user|3> how tu install kubuntu
[06:13] <oerheks> !install
 what are those errors and how can i fix them ? https://termbin.com/98jpe
[12:38] <tomreyn> line one is not an error, a way to resolve the error in line 2 is provided in line 3. the rest i don't know / too little info.
 what info should i provide ? (re @IrcsomeBot: <tomreyn> line one is not an error, a way to resolve the error in line 2 is provided in line 3. the rest i don't know / too little info.)
[13:10] <tomreyn> Omar: *always* provide this information: (k)ubuntu version, kernel version. when it comes to malfunctions with specific hardware, such as your hci0 bluetooth adapter, you should also provide details on that. commands to get more details on hardware components are usually lsusb or lspci -nn
[13:10] <tomreyn> for pulseaudio issues, it's good to run the alsa-info.sh script
[13:11] <tomreyn> personally, i will probably not be able to help much with bluetooth or pulseaudio issues, though.
[13:12] <tomreyn> also note that it's probably not worth trying to debug errors if they do not have a notable impact on what you are trying to do.
[14:15] <user|38> hello, is there an easy way to install kubuntu from iso on windows
[14:15] <user|38> ?
[14:15] <user|38> i just downloaded the iso and I am working o windows
[14:57] <mparillo> I use VMWare Player to run Kubuntu as a guest with a Win10 host.
[16:13] <kubuntu> Need help with kubuntu install. Is this the right place?
[16:15] <arraybolt3> new_kubuntu_user: Yes.
 They have no impact at all, i just wanna fix them to learn how to do it if i needed to (re @IrcsomeBot: <tomreyn> also note that it's probably not worth trying to debug errors if they do not have a notable impact on what you are trying to do.)
[17:03] <tomreyn> you will not always be able to fix all errors, but sure, trying to do so can be a good way to increase your experience.
[18:02] <mmikowski> omar: I recommend you run first without TLP and only add it back and keep it after you prove to yourself that it provides benefit.
[18:06] <mmikowski> TLP changes a lot of stuff and can subtly interact with other power-save subsystems. While we found it could reduce battery drain in the most aggressive settings, in our systems the tradeoffs weren't worth it, since we tie into the KDE power and udev events to implement reduced-power profiles. Some stuff TLP does, like putting WiFi into low-power
[18:06] <mmikowski> mode, can cause connection hiccups.
[18:48] <saavedro> Hi there everyone. I'm a bit of a Linux newb and installed Kubuntu on my laptop yesterday. All is working well however when I sleep my laptop, upon waking back up the Wireless is completely borked. I tried reinstalling Kubuntu 22.04 and again 22.10 and the issue still persists. If I reboot the system, wireless will work again. What I observe is after waking from sleep is that the network manager pop up from the system tray says "
[18:48] <saavedro> Wireless is deactivated" and I can't find a way to get it to work. I have screenshots if helpful and can pull logs. I'm at a loss and have tried a bunch of thigns which I can go into detail about. Any advice is appreciated.
[18:49] <arraybolt3> saavedro: Can you run "sudo dmesg | nc termbin.com 9999" and send the link that spits out? That will let me see how your system (more specifically, the kernel) behaves when you wake your computer from sleep.
[18:50] <arraybolt3> (The above command is to be run in Konsole.)
[18:52] <saavedro> Absolutely, here you go: https://termbin.com/bvu0v
[18:53] <saavedro> Also, termbin is handy! TIL about that :)
[18:53] <arraybolt3> Hmm... this is *before* you've put the system in sleep and woke it back up, I'm guessing.
[18:53] <arraybolt3> Do you have some way to reconnect to the Internet (like an Ethernet cable) after triggering the problem?
[18:53] <saavedro> Yeah, that's correct. I could try ethernet, one moment
[18:53] <arraybolt3> (The logs won't contain the needed data until after the problem has been triggered.)
[18:54] <saavedro> I'm on the system right now where I'm chatting (bad idea I know) so give me a few
[18:58] <saavedro> Not sure if those messages came accross, took Konversation a bit to time out but I think I'm back :-)
[18:59] <saavedro> New dmesg: https://termbin.com/b9r22
[19:00] <arraybolt3> Looking...
[19:01] <saavedro> Thanks
[19:01] <saavedro>  I saw a couple things of interest regarding loading the firmware but failing with version 72 then loading version 71
[19:01] <mmikowski> Ironically, I just mentioned TLP which can cause these sorts of issue. Don't know if you have it installed, but you might purge it and see if that fixes the issues.
[19:01] <arraybolt3> [ 1061.294759] iwlwifi 0000:3e:00.0: reporting RF_KILL (radio disabled)
[19:02] <arraybolt3> saavedro: What's the output of `rfkill`?
[19:02] <arraybolt3> That should show whether the WiFi device is soft-blocked or hard-blocked.
[19:03] <mmikowski> TLP is very good in a lot of cases, but it can complicate things, as it has controls for things like powering down WiFi.
[19:03]  * arraybolt3 has to go afk, sorry
[19:03] <saavedro>  1 wlan phy0   unblocked blocked
[19:03] <saavedro> HARD blocked
[19:04] <saavedro> no problem, I just had a work meeting start anyway :-)
[19:06] <saavedro> you gave me some good things to check out so I'll rummage a bit
[19:15] <saavedro> oh so hard blocked looks to mean a physical wireless swich which this laptop does not have
[19:23] <saavedro> I found this (https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=207376) and for funsies tried doing 'rfkill unblock wifi' and 'rfkill unblock wlan' and 'rfkill unblock all' to no avail.
[19:39] <mmikowski> saavedro: TLP will power down WiFi? https://askubuntu.com/questions/545841/installing-tlp-power-save-stopped-my-wifi-adapter-from-working
[19:40] <mmikowski> That would probably be a hard block.
[19:40] <mmikowski> hope that helps
[19:56] <saavedro> arraybolt3 also mentioned TLP, what is that? (also searching)
[19:57] <saavedro> oh I see, a command line tool for power management
[20:01] <saavedro> Huh doesn't seem that TLP is installed with Kubuntu by default... I just installed it, let me tickle it a bit
[21:31] <saavedro_> arraybolt3 I installed Ubuntu 22.10 and oddly when I sleep the machine then wake it, it turns on Airplane mode which gets stuck on. Kubuntu was not in airplane mode but I could toggle it on and off but it didn't seem to affect the wlan
[21:33] <arraybolt3> Weird... I wonder if this is an ACPI issue?
[21:33] <arraybolt3> !acpi
[21:33] <arraybolt3> (dunno if that link will help but maybe?)
[21:39] <saavedro_> I'll give it a go. It's a 5ish year old laptop and I checked about 2 months ago and was on the latest BIOS. I also did reset my bios earlier today just to see if anything was off. It's a very simple bios setup too, not much customization.
[21:43] <saavedro_> I just remembered, MSI released a later BIOS to support Windows 11 which enabled the TPM on the motherboard. I'm baffled why that wouldn't have already been enabled, but I'm going to roll back to the BIOS version that was prior to that release and see if that changes anything
[21:44] <saavedro_> lol they only support BIOS update from windows
[21:44] <saavedro_> oy
[21:45] <arraybolt3> :-/
[21:45] <oerheks> maybe the 1st bios update enables the license for TMP .. not uncommon
[21:45] <saavedro_> there's a license for TPM???
[21:45] <oerheks> dunno, could be
[21:46] <saavedro_> wouldn't surprise me, tbh
[21:46] <arraybolt3> The TPM manufacturer might charge the motherboard manufacturer for TPM support.
[21:46] <arraybolt3> Drives me nuts that sometimes hardware will be there but be disabled and locked behind a license key sometimes, but it happens.
[21:46] <saavedro_> BMW Heated Seats lol
[21:46] <oerheks> the only way for the vendor to point the beginning of support.
[21:46] <saavedro_> I 'laugh' but yea that drives me nuts too...
[21:48] <saavedro_> another tidbit I just recalled - this system shipped with an Intel AC WIFI chip and I bought this AX200 on the interwebs somewhere to bump it up to AX
[21:48] <saavedro_> should work (and does in Windows) but maybe something there is wonky
[21:48] <arraybolt3> Might be running into hardware blacklisting or something, though if it works on Windows that's unlikely.
[21:49] <arraybolt3> (That's where the motherboard manufacturer makes their system check the hardware to see if it's "supported" and if it's not it misbehaves in some way.)
[21:49] <arraybolt3> Hopefully that's not what's going on though, since the system boots with it.
[21:49] <saavedro_> Yeah, not sure. I could run off in the weeds with theories lol
[21:49] <arraybolt3> As a stop gap, you *could* disable sleep in KDE and put the system into Power Save mode when not in use?
[21:50] <arraybolt3> Assuming Kubuntu supports power profiles on your particular hardware (it does on mine).
[21:50] <saavedro_> What's the difference between sleep and power save?
[21:50] <saavedro_> stays on but uses very little power?
[21:50] <arraybolt3> Sleep makes your computer basically turn off but keeps RAM contents alive. Power Save keeps everything on but functioning slowly.
[21:50] <saavedro_> got it
[21:50] <saavedro_> wasn't sure if it was some different sleep state
[21:50] <arraybolt3> You can actively use the laptop when in Power Save mode, too.
[21:51] <saavedro_> if I recall that throttles the CPU way down and turns off C states or something?
[21:51] <arraybolt3> Something along those lines.
[21:51] <saavedro_> yeah, that could be ok
[21:51] <arraybolt3> (I'm in Power Save mode now, my system is still responsive but I know from experience that VMs will take a while to boot doing this.)
[21:52] <saavedro_> heh if it's throttling the processor that would make sense
[21:52] <arraybolt3> If your system supports it, you should be able to find the option in the menu that pops up if you click the battery icon.
[21:52] <saavedro_> my desktop runs windows and hyperv and I do know that if I turn on power saver it throttles the CPU to ~1ghz
[21:52] <saavedro_> Looking now
[21:53] <saavedro_> ah yeah, here it is
[21:53] <arraybolt3> And for disabling Sleep mode, System Settings -> Power Management -> When laptop lid closed -> Do nothing.
[21:54] <arraybolt3> Set that for both "On AC Power" and "On Battery".
[21:54] <saavedro_> Yep, found that yesterday because I wanted to take my laptop to the living room without it sleeping :D
[21:54] <arraybolt3> (Might set it to "Turn off screen" rather than "Do nothing".)
[21:54] <arraybolt3> Ah, nice.
[21:54] <arraybolt3> Stinks that sleep doesn't work, but hopefully that will make things at least not *as* bad.
[21:56] <arraybolt3> saavedro_: Hey, I found something...
[21:56] <saavedro_> lol so there IS a way to update the BIOS via BIOS setup, but the BIOS file they give you to install via Windows doesn't work
[21:56] <arraybolt3> https://community.intel.com/t5/Wireless/WiFi-device-hard-blocked-after-resuming-from-sleep/td-p/1204406
[21:56] <saavedro_> woah, that looks promising
[21:57] <arraybolt3> Tar, they basically said "hardware problem, ask the manufacturer for help".
[21:58] <saavedro_> yeah... and the last response they said they reset bios to defaults and that fixed it for them
[21:58] <saavedro_> bleh
[21:59] <saavedro_> one of the links you sent earlier they said they pulled the AC power and the battery and it fixed theirs but I think they were booting their system and wifi was hard blocked
[21:59] <arraybolt3> If the firmware was open-source, you'd be able to make it ignore the rfkill signal it looks like. But... it's not.
[21:59] <saavedro_> sigh, yeah
[22:03] <saavedro_> hey this bios update has a batch with it, I'm going to see if it'll run from windows setup so I dont have to install windows :)
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/425432f7/manuel_fawlty_towers.mp4
[22:05] <RikMills> sorry. accidental click in telegram ^^
[22:06] <saavedro_> nothing to see here
[22:11] <saavedro_> wow, I installed Windows on the second drive and amazingly it didn't break grub
[22:42] <arraybolt3> saavedro_: Not that your idea isn't good with running the firmware installer from Windows Setup, but if a firmware installation goes wrong, your computer is usually totalled, so proceed with caution and be prepared to get a new laptop if you do things that are too far outside-the-box :P
[22:43] <saavedro_> it didn't work... windows setup is windows pe and it wouldn't let me run the installer. I installed Windows. And then it wouldn't let me "downgrade" the bios lol
[22:46] <arraybolt3> Figures.