[03:09] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:09] <wez> Afternoon lotuspsychje! What's the latest?
[17:38] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: At this point I'm not sure if I'm helping or just adding to the confusion.
[17:39] <Eickmeyer> No, you're helping. He just tried to install Ubuntu Studio with extra steps, not realizing that Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu {flavor} are configured completely differently under the hood.
[17:40] <Eickmeyer> I'm just sick of his poor, unresearched assumptions. I have a very low tolerance for stupidity.
[17:42] <arraybolt3> Might not be stupidity half so much as much of the info on the Internet is total garbage.
[17:48] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: Yeah, that. Plus I don't like it when someone tries to argue against something that *I* wrote. The spirit of the word vs the letter of the word.
[17:54] <BloatJanitor> Even official Ubuntu documentation is misleading. Sometimes even when new-ish.
[18:19] <BloatJanitor> Is there a place to report possible copyright violations in packages originating from Ubuntu?
[18:20] <arraybolt3> BloatJanitor: Probably just a bug report against the package in question would be good.
[18:21] <arraybolt3> BloatJanitor: `ubuntu-bug <package>` should let you do it.
[18:21] <BloatJanitor> Someone already did but for bloat reasons. That's how I found it. The daily scraper found the bloat tag. Not much bloat imho but seems like a potential re-licensing issue of a 3rd party company's IP.
[18:21] <arraybolt3> BloatJanitor: Or you could just let us know the details here.
[18:21] <BloatJanitor> Do I just report the same package they did
[18:22] <arraybolt3> I would, they're two different problems even if their related to the same files.
[18:22] <BloatJanitor> one of the yaru? theme packages apparently has an amazon logo but according to the poster was relicensed from a different project
[18:22] <BloatJanitor> I don't understand how it works it just smelled fishy
[18:23] <arraybolt3> (Which reminds me, there's an Adobe ICC profile I should probably be cleaning out of a particular package, grumble)
[18:23] <BloatJanitor> I'm still begging Gnome to automatically remove inkscape metadata....
[18:24] <arraybolt3> Check *one* wrong box in Photoshop and you end up with proprietary data in your picture.
[18:25] <arraybolt3> I seriously dislike Adobe.
[18:27] <BloatJanitor> Reminds me of https://www.thurrott.com/windows/109962/windows-bloated-thanks-adobes-extensible-metadata-platform
[18:28] <BloatJanitor> I was looking for a SVGO single binary alternative but couldn't find one unfortunately.
[18:29] <BloatJanitor> Just to submit hundreds of PRs to Gnome at once.
[18:29] <BloatJanitor> Then automatically upon >10% savings over committed
[18:30] <arraybolt3> I guess the lesson is, use open-source tools even if you can afford the proprietary stuff.
[18:32] <BloatJanitor> Yup. Even freeware version metadata can be found in Microsoft image files and DLL images from Paint.NET etc
[18:32] <BloatJanitor> Sell it as a security issue for infra -> https://github.com/cloudflare/svg-hush
[19:36] <BloatJanitor> Where do the files from /var/lib/app-info/icons/ come from? The App store or as a feature of Apt?
[19:37] <BloatJanitor> dpkg -S shows nothing
[19:38] <arraybolt3> Try using apt-file search.
[19:40] <sarnold> poke around in /etc/apt/ -- iirc there's a hook script in there that downloads a bunch of that kind of stuff
[19:42] <BloatJanitor> apt-file search /var/lib/app-info/icons/ubuntu-kinetic-universe/64x64/zynaddsubfx_zynaddsubfx.png
[19:42] <BloatJanitor> Searching through filenames ...sh: 0: getcwd() failed: No such file or directory
[19:42] <BloatJanitor> Oh ok
[19:43] <sarnold> hah, did you delete your current working directory or something?
[19:44] <BloatJanitor> no?
[19:46] <BloatJanitor> apt-file search zynaddsubfx_zynaddsubfx.png also did nothing
[19:47] <BloatJanitor> it was just the last file listed in one of my bloat queries
[19:48] <BloatJanitor> OK so at least for the yaml related stuff I think it is from appstreamcli's apt config
[19:49] <BloatJanitor> from /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream
[19:50] <sarnold> thanks :) I can never remember the name of that hting when people ask
[19:51] <BloatJanitor> Ok so why does this exist?
[19:54] <sarnold> I think that provides icons and screenshots of things in app stores https://github.com/ximion/appstream/
[19:55] <BloatJanitor> I don't have an app store installed. I do have these files though.
[19:56] <sarnold> you may enjoy removing that package, then :)
[19:57] <BloatJanitor> Ahhhh but see if I do, the icons and yaml still aren't removed.
[19:57] <sarnold> I *know* you'll love removing those ;)
[19:58] <BloatJanitor> Now i need to install a fresh run in a VM to see if they are on the base rootfs
[21:14] <BloatJanitor> Does Ubuntu keep a list tree of all files no installed by a package in each version and install type?
[21:29] <sarnold> can you rephrase the question?
[21:37] <BloatJanitor> There are files that aren't held by packages on a default installation. Does Ubuntu have a list of these files?
[21:42] <sarnold> ah, no, not that I know of
[21:43] <BloatJanitor> It would be interesting to see if any "scaffolding" related files should actually be in packages.
[21:46] <sarnold> dpkg gets very annoying about config files or conf files, I forget which
[21:46] <sarnold> so quite often files will go unowned because a package owning them is a royal pain
[21:50] <BloatJanitor> So appstream is both a recommended package of ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop-minimal. Is there ever a situation where ubuntu-desktop would exist without ubuntu-desktop-minimal?
[21:52] <BloatJanitor> debtree being amazing once again
[22:11] <Eickmeyer> BloatJanitor: What you're seeing there is an inherited recommends. That happens as a result of being built by the germinate seed process. It's not a manually-built debian/control file. Therefore, it really doesn't matter.
[22:12] <BloatJanitor> https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/seeds/ubuntu.lunar/desktop
[22:12] <BloatJanitor> It says it is a superset so
[22:12] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. What's your point?
[22:15] <BloatJanitor> I mean. It matters the second you have other flavors or spins in effort, management, accuracy and a small line of bloat.
[22:15] <Eickmeyer> So? Is it hurting anything?
[22:16] <Eickmeyer> Looks like you've made it your personal mission to "reduce bloat".
[22:17] <Eickmeyer> This "bloat scraper". Where is it?
[22:17] <BloatJanitor> That's what everyone said until they guy who jumped shipped to Google Cloud put out a public form submission because of snap and the need to reduce.
[22:17] <arraybolt3> I don't see how it matters that there's a Recommends in two packages that's redundant. The same package will be installed either way.
[22:17] <BloatJanitor> It's just a cobweb of scripts, services and RSS feeds
[22:17] <arraybolt3> Worst case scenario it's some extra characters in one file.
[22:18] <Eickmeyer> Ok, is it a script you wrote on your personal machine?
[22:18] <BloatJanitor> yes
[22:18] <Eickmeyer> Ok. Then we don't need your services.
[22:18] <BloatJanitor> well, my phone gets the RSS
[22:18] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu is a meritocracy. 
[22:18] <BloatJanitor> I never offered
[22:19] <Eickmeyer> Then please don't come to Ubuntu trying to "reduce bloat" in name, talking about this "bloat scraper" getting "tags" and what-not when we have no idea what you're referring to.
[22:19] <BloatJanitor> Launchpad has tags
[22:20] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: He's trying to be helpful, and this room is for discussion of Ubuntu.
[22:20] <ravage> sometimes i really miss the !kickvote command in ubottu 
[22:20] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, but you're making it your personal mission to reduce this ambiguous "bloat" that is a matter of opinion.
[22:20] <arraybolt3> In #ubuntu-devel this might be off-topic, but here it's not.
[22:20] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: But it's not, especially when he's doing it in #ubuntu-desktop.
[22:21] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: That may be true, and in #ubuntu-desktop this also may be wrong. But why would it be wrong to ask questions about stuff in here?
[22:21] <Eickmeyer> It's OK in here, but the minute it happens in #ubuntu-desktop or any of the development channels, we're going to have problems.
[22:22] <Eickmeyer> Rather, if it happens again.
[22:22] <BloatJanitor> I'm not in ubuntu-desktop
[22:22] <arraybolt3> Ah. Understood.
[22:22] <Eickmeyer> BloatJanitor: You were.
[22:22] <BloatJanitor> Can you tell me what I said in that channel that was a problem and not a direct response to a question asked by a mod or voice?
[22:22] <Eickmeyer> We just don't want teams disrupted from doing their jobs.
[22:24] <Eickmeyer> BloatJanitor: In #ubuntu-desktop on Monday: <BloatJanitor> Why is libcolorhug2 a depends in debian sid and ubuntu lunar for the colord package? I got an alert this morning from an added bloat tag.
[22:24] <Eickmeyer> It's not your job to do that.
[22:24] <BloatJanitor> So once time without a mention against it, days ago?
[22:25] <Eickmeyer> It comes across as confrontational. I just don't want it happening again.
[22:25] <Eickmeyer> And your username is very suspiciously confrontational on such subjects.
[22:27] <BloatJanitor> This all seems needlessly emotional.
[22:27] <Eickmeyer>  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[22:28] <Eickmeyer> I'm not being emotional. I just come across as blunt.
[22:28] <BloatJanitor> The person who controlled that project had all references removed. They stated the hardware and project was dead.
[22:28] <Eickmeyer> Besides the point.
[22:28] <BloatJanitor> Those aren't exclusive of one another.
[22:28] <Eickmeyer> Again, besides the point.