[12:57] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:25] <ahoneybun[m]> Heyo BluesKaj 
[13:26] <BluesKaj> hey ahoneybun[m]
[13:31] <ahoneybun[m]> mmikowski: I'm looking at laptops but don't really need anything lol
[16:08] <mmikowski> Yeah, I didn't think so Aaron ;)
[16:44] <ahoneybun[m]> Plus I'm not really doing much that requires a new system lol
[16:44] <ahoneybun[m]> I do want to replace the Galago Pro with something but not sure if I really need it. The Pinebook Pro is pretty sweet.
[17:33] <arraybolt3> ahoneybun[m]: You're going to replace a powerful Intel-based laptop with a weak ARM-based laptop?
[17:33] <arraybolt3> ahoneybun[m]: Also you're not going to believe this, but based on the picture I'm seeing, the system76 Galaga Pro is essentially a Kubuntu Focus XE.
 "ahoneybun: You're going to..." <- I like messing with ARM stuff and maybe RISC in the future.
 "ahoneybun: Also you're not going..." <- Not my Galago Pro.
[17:47] <arraybolt3> Ah.
[17:50] <ahoneybun[m]> It's more like the galp5/galp6, it's based on the same Clevo model.
 ahoneybun[m] clivejo: We would certainly be interested in setting you up with a Focus. The newer laptops are looking nice. We have considered adding scotch-guard as an option :P  <- I'm not a Kubuntu member or devel any more.  I know Rik got one and tried drowning it, hence the jibes at him!
[18:29] <mmikowski> Haha, no worries clivejo, I figured as much. I don't know to many here (although I do know Honeycutt from s76 and Kubuntu) so I thought I'd toss that out there. What do you work on?
[18:30] <clivejo> Transitioning at the moment
[18:31] <clivejo> Solus -> SerpentOS
[18:33] <clivejo> Currently on Lunar until an installation iso is ready
[19:29] <mmikowski> clivejo: Ah, I need to look into that.
[19:31] <mmikowski> ok, looked into that :)
[19:33] <mmikowski> BTW, we spent a LOT of time looking into shipping kubuntu 22.04 LTS with btrfs, and did lots of testing. In the end, did not do it, mostly for non-technical reasons.
[19:34] <mmikowski> But definitely a fan of rollback and atomic changes and much of the other stuff they are pursuing.
[19:50] <mmikowski> clivejo: Getting packages to install and configure to hardware is quite a challenge, and one which Serpent appears to be taking on.
[19:51] <clivejo> yeah I know, I loved the way Solus did things.  Delta package updates, nice logical packaging
[19:51] <mmikowski> It's definitely a lot of work, which is not just a one-time thing, but requires constant maintenance. For example, what kernel supports my hardware, and will the upcoming security release have a regression, how does the system recognize that and propagate that knowledge to others. 
[19:52] <mmikowski> Tuxedo have Tomte; Kfocus has kfocus-hw.
[19:52] <mmikowski> Also focusrx.
[19:52] <clivejo> where are those kept?
[19:53] <mmikowski> that doesn't cover everything, but lots of work (and continued maintenance) have been poured into those.
[19:53] <clivejo> kubuntu packaging?
[19:53] <mmikowski> kfocus-source.
[19:53] <clivejo> ppa?
[19:54] <mmikowski> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kfocus-team/release
[19:54] <mmikowski> kfocus-source on github.
[19:54] <clivejo> found it
[19:54] <mmikowski> there are hw profiles implemented, including some esoteric stuff.
[19:55] <mmikowski> Like, when you install on a device with a QHD monitor, the scale factor for KDE by default increases to 1.5.
[19:55] <clivejo> I see
[19:56] <clivejo> shouldn't you be snapping all that :P
[19:56] <mmikowski> This requires work to maintain, including testing of that feature on every KDE release to ensure it continues to be supported.
[19:56] <mmikowski> Which we do.
[19:57] <mmikowski> We have substantial protocols to ensure all that stuff gets accomplished on every major Driver/ Kernel / Desktop upgrade.
[19:57] <mmikowski> It also has to work across all supported hardware. It's a lot of work. However, the goal is to be mac-like stable but with linux-like capability.
[19:58] <mmikowski> bwhaha, snaps, ... :P
[19:59] <mmikowski> Of course we provide Kubuntu, so the snaps remain. No offense to them, they definitely have their place.
[19:59] <clivejo> horror show!
[20:00] <mmikowski> I can see that perspective.
[20:00] <mmikowski> OTOH, installing this server was a snap, and it worked mostly quickly and painlessly.
[20:01] <mmikowski> But UI systems have certainly been a challenge.
[20:01] <clivejo> the firefox snap done my head in!
[20:01] <mmikowski> Like tying into a password manager on Firefox, or integrating a password manager; getting all that ..
[20:01] <clivejo> nuked the entire thing in the end
[20:02] <mmikowski> put together is a *lot* of trouble.
[20:02] <mmikowski> At some point, one has to stop abstracting the execution environments and run the code.
[20:02] <mmikowski> The art is figuring out where that needs to be.
[20:03] <mmikowski> I think some can strongly and persuasively answer that for a lot of desktop apps, running them in a containerized system may cause more trouble that it solves.
[20:03] <clivejo> seems to be the art of forcing it on users, whether they like it or not
[20:04] <mmikowski> OTOH, for 'TheLounge' snap was a real convenience.
[20:04] <mmikowski> Yeah, I know.
[20:04] <clivejo> that is why I formatted Windows off my machine a decade or more ago!
[20:04] <mmikowski> yeah, that too :)
[20:04] <mmikowski> One can never be 100% aligned with their allies. There will always be differences.
[20:05] <mmikowski> We run stock Kubuntu with tools on top, so it's not our place to question those decisions.
[20:05] <clivejo> when is lunar release date?
[20:05] <mmikowski> Oh, I can't help with that :)
[20:06] <mmikowski> My responsibility is with Kubuntu Focus management, not interim Kubuntu itself; that's Rik's call.
[20:06] <clivejo> 20th
[20:07] <mmikowski> The reason I'm not following is because we ship only LTS. 9 month support isn't good enough for companies that need research workstations.
[20:07] <clivejo> no bother
[20:09] <mmikowski> well it's nice meeting you. I'm actually working on a hardware profile right now.
[20:09] <mmikowski> fwiw, I'm almost certain that Tomte is also open source.
[20:11] <clivejo> is the nvidia driver open source?
[20:15] <mmikowski> clivejo: We don't currently validate the OSS driver version, as features our customers use are not always supported.
[20:15] <mmikowski> Specifically, ML libraries. 
[20:15] <mmikowski> As the OSS libs mature, however, more of that is slated to move to OSS, and that may eventually supplant the closed-source libs.
[20:16] <mmikowski> FWIW, maintaining and pinning all the libs to support ML AND Steam is a real PITA.
[20:16] <mmikowski> All while using all-stock Ubuntu and Nvidia packages and repos.
[20:17] <mmikowski> Installing kfocus-nvidia does that.