[19:01] <seb128> hey there!
[19:01] <kanashiro[m]> o/
[19:01] <bdmurray> o/
[19:02] <falcojr> o/ (am I in the right place?)
[19:03] <utkarsh2102> I’m around but limited availability
[19:03] <seb128> hey falcojr! you are at the right place indeed
[19:04] <seb128> utkarsh2102, if you are around enough to vote then we have enough people to have the meeting
[19:04] <rbasak> o/
[19:04] <rbasak> Sorry I'm late
[19:04] <seb128> no worry!
[19:04] <utkarsh2102> Yep, I think so
[19:05] <seb128> so let's get started, anyone wanting to chair? (we should define a rotation as other teams do for their meetings)
[19:06] <seb128> k, I will chair if that's ok with everyone
[19:06] <bdmurray> I'm simultaneously trying to square away some autopkgtest stuff
[19:07] <bdmurray> that's fine with me seb128
[19:07] <seb128> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[19:07] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:07:07 UTC.  The chair is seb128.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:07] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:07] <seb128> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[19:07] <seb128> #topic PPU Applications
[19:07] <seb128> #subtopic  James Falcon  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesFalcon/DeveloperPerPackageUploadApplication
[19:07] <seb128> falcojr, hey
[19:07] <falcojr> hi!
[19:08] <seb128> falcojr, do you want to start by introducing yourself?
[19:09] <falcojr> Sure! My name is James Falcon and I've been working on cloud-init (as a Canonical employee) for the past 3 years, and looking for PPU. I've been using Ubuntu off and on for a decade longer and have been a Python programmer throughout my career.
[19:10] <falcojr> not sure how much you're looking for, so let me know if you want more detail
[19:10] <falcojr> the application you linked contains more of the specific details for what I've done on cloud-init
[19:10] <seb128> thanks
[19:11] <seb128> falcojr, so let me start with one question
[19:12] <seb128> falcojr, reading you wikipage you mention your upstream contribution to cloud-init, but what about the ubuntu package? did you work on it?
[19:14] <falcojr> Yes, I mention many of our upstream releases but then we SRU that back into the Ubuntu releases. We'll do both at the same time with the same person driving it. The only part I don't do is the dput
[19:14] <seb128> sorry I focussed on the things you listed in 'Examples of my work' but I saw now that you listed more in the next section
[19:15] <bdmurray> Who is currently uploading cloud-init?
[19:16] <falcojr> Chad Smith
[19:16] <rbasak> Looking at the sponsorship miner, I see one addition of a Recommends in packaging, and dropping of some quilt patches that were adopted upstream. The rest of your sponsosred uploads are new upstream releases or snapshots and their corresponding SRUs.
[19:16] <rbasak> This is all good work!
[19:17] <rbasak> But I'm reminded of a recent applicant who had similar experience and we suggested granting upload rights but with a limitation that a public core dev review would be required for anything that required packaging work, as opposed to new upstrema releases - and that wouldn't be enforced except by trust.
[19:17] <rbasak> Maybe doing something similar here would be appropriate?
[19:19] <rbasak> Just on the principle that we don't want to block progress, but at the same time setting the expectation that you are responsible to sponsor anything for cloud-init packaging including in areas that you don't have prior experience in seems inappropriate.
[19:19] <rbasak> This seems to be a common theme nowadays but perhaps expected as we grow and people specialise.
[19:19] <falcojr> what does that review process look like? Seems reasonable to me
[19:20] <rbasak> I wouldn't want to specify, deliberately so it doesn't tie your hands. What I suggested with the previous applicant was: """
[19:20] <rbasak> You must not upload packaging changes or SRUs without a public code                 review from a core dev first. Once you have a public +1 from a core dev,
[19:20] <rbasak> you may then sign and upload yourself.
[19:20] <rbasak> """
[19:21] <rbasak> In your case you clearly have SRU experience so that part wouldn't apply
[19:22] <falcojr> and part of it is just that cloud-init's packaging (outside of changelog and patches) rarely changes, so that makes sense
[19:23] <rbasak> Right - and if that changes then you'd get some sponsored experience for those types of changes and that would be a good basis to ask the DMB to remove that limitation.
[19:23] <rbasak> I don't know if this is a good path to go down generally or what the rest of the DMB think.
[19:24] <kanashiro[m]> I agree with rbasak 's proposal
[19:24] <seb128> +1
[19:24] <rbasak> In part this is to relieve pressure on you - because I know that once you can sponsor uploads to a package, you might get some crazy requests and suddenly it's on you :-/
[19:26] <falcojr> yeah, it makes sense to me
[19:26] <seb128> alright
[19:27] <seb128> any other question from the DMB members?
[19:27] <rbasak> So technically falcojr is a colleague on the server team at Canonical so I would abstain.
[19:27] <rbasak> But in this case I think my vote is needed
[19:27] <kanashiro[m]> no question from me
[19:28] <rbasak> Also I don't actually work closely with falcojr - our areas of work are separate so we don't interact that much. I'll +1 if everyone else is unanimous
[19:28] <seb128> rbasak, is it? kanashiro[m] utkarsh2102 bdmurray and me are around, so we have 4/7
[19:28] <seb128> but I'm fine with you voting
[19:28] <rbasak> kanashiro[m] is in an equivalent situation to me, but of course what he does is up to him.
[19:28] <rbasak> (he's on the same team as us)
[19:28] <seb128> right
[19:28] <seb128> k, so if we don't have more questions let's vote
[19:29] <rbasak> Anyway, I thought I'd at least declare the situation to minimise any concerns others might have of conflict.
[19:29] <seb128> #vote James Falcon to get ppu upload rights for the cloud-init package
[19:29] <meetingology> Please vote on: James Falcon to get ppu upload rights for the cloud-init package
[19:29] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[19:30] <rbasak> To be clear, this vote includes the limitation I proposed above?
[19:30] <seb128> yes
[19:30] <kanashiro[m]> yeah, we are on the same team but TBH I've not seen any work from falcojr , so I'd be fine voting
[19:30] <utkarsh2102> I’m ready to vote, I have no questions
[19:31] <utkarsh2102> +1; I’ve seen James’ work and I can vouch for his good work. Having met him a couple of times, he’s even a wonderful person. I trust that James will do the right thing and will seek help whenever needed.
[19:31] <meetingology> +1; I’ve seen James’ work and I can vouch for his good work. Having met him a couple of times, he’s even a wonderful person. I trust that James will do the right thing and will seek help whenever needed. received from utkarsh2102
[19:31] <seb128> +1, I think the sponsors upload record and the upstream involvement and solid and I trust he will ask for a coredev review when packaging changes are needed
[19:31] <meetingology> +1, I think the sponsors upload record and the upstream involvement and solid and I trust he will ask for a coredev review when packaging changes are needed received from seb128
[19:32] <seb128> 'are solid...'
[19:32] <bdmurray> +1
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[19:32] <rbasak> +1
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[19:32] <kanashiro[m]> +1
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 received from kanashiro[m]
[19:33] <seb128> I think that's everyone who is there today right?
[19:33] <seb128> #endvote
[19:33] <meetingology> Voting ended on: James Falcon to get ppu upload rights for the cloud-init package
[19:33] <meetingology> Votes for: 5, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[19:33] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:33] <rbasak> falcojr: did you announce your application on devel-permissions@
[19:33] <utkarsh2102> Woot! Congratulations!
[19:33] <seb128> falcojr, congratulations!
[19:33] <kanashiro[m]> congrats falcojr :)
[19:33] <falcojr> Thanks!
[19:34] <rbasak> falcojr: I don't see your application announced on the ML, which we need in order to reply to it :)
[19:34] <falcojr> rbasak: No, I wasn't aware of that step. Can I do that now?
[19:34]  * rbasak can take the announcement and ACL actions - TB member needed
[19:34] <seb128> falcojr, yes, thanks
[19:34] <seb128> rbasak, thanks
[19:34] <rbasak> falcojr: yes please. It's just so that we have a record on the ML archive which is very useful for figuring things out later.
[19:35] <seb128> #action rbasak to do the announcement and ACL actions for falcojr's approved ppu application
[19:35] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to do the announcement and ACL actions for falcojr's approved ppu application
[19:36] <seb128> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:37] <seb128> rbasak, any update on documenting the decision on Keeping IRC meetings moving?
[19:39] <seb128> I guess not, let's keep moving :p
[19:39] <seb128> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[19:39] <seb128> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2023-April/002250.html
[19:40] <rbasak> Sorry, I got distracted - multitasking with childcare this evening. How ironic.
[19:40] <seb128> :p
[19:40] <seb128> so Till is requesting to have libppd added to the packaging set
[19:42] <bdmurray> To which package set?
[19:42] <rbasak> I think it's a PPU addition request rather than a packageset
[19:42] <seb128> yes, sorry, there is an existing printing set that Till has access to
[19:42] <seb128> and he's requesting to have that one source package added to the printing set
[19:43] <rbasak> "So libppd can also be considered as a split-off of code which I had already         PPU rights for, via the cups and cups-filters packages.
[19:43] <seb128> which seems reasonable to me
[19:43] <kanashiro[m]> based on the explanation in the email it seems reasonable to me
[19:43] <rbasak> So it's just src:libppd he's requesting, right?
[19:43] <seb128> yes
[19:44] <seb128> one of the reason Steve asked him to ask the DMB I think is because libppd existed before but was another project
[19:44] <seb128> due to an unfortunate naming conflict, we ended up having libppd becoming a new project in Lunar (replacing the 10+ old unmaintained libppd by the new code split from cups stack)
[19:44] <rbasak> Ah, right. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libppd/2:2.0~b2-0ubuntu4 has some background.
[19:46] <rbasak> I think this is all fine and there's no issue with granting PPU. I also don't think a formal vote is needed as it's just a rearrangement to the same effect of what he had before AIUI.
[19:46] <seb128> ack
[19:46] <rbasak> I appreciate his emailing with the details though, and it being brought up in this meeting so as to make progress.
[19:46] <rbasak> If there's no objection I'll JFDI.
[19:46] <rbasak> Or we can have a vote if others would like.
[19:46] <seb128> unless someone raise an objection I will go ahead after the meeting and add it
[19:47] <kanashiro[m]> +1
[19:47] <seb128> great, so let's keep moving
[19:47] <seb128> there is no other pending topic on the mailing list
[19:47] <seb128> #topic Open TB bugs
[19:47] <seb128> no bug there
[19:48] <seb128> #topic AOB
[19:48] <seb128> anything else to discuss today?
[19:49] <seb128> seems not, that's a wrap then, thanks everyone!
[19:49] <seb128> #endmeeting
[19:49] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 19:49:45 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-05-15-19.07.moin.txt
[19:49] <bdmurray> It looks like the Agenda wiki page hasn't been updated in a bit
[19:50] <seb128> bdmurray, you mean?
[19:50] <bdmurray> There is an application from 2023-04-17 still listed and Meeting Logs section has nothing for 2023
[19:51] <kanashiro[m]> there is an application from last month not removed/updated (?)
[19:51] <seb128> ah, we did skip some meetings where we didn't have enough people and I guess we failed to edit the agenda accordingly in those cases
[19:51] <seb128> let me delete that entry
[19:52] <kanashiro[m]> thanks for chairing seb128
[19:52] <seb128> and yes we should add a 2023 section for meetings logs, any volunteer?
[19:53] <bdmurray> I can do that
[19:53] <seb128> bdmurray, thanks!
[20:07] <rbasak> seb128: did you just add Till's PPU for src:libppd? I see he seems to already have it.
[20:08] <rbasak> Oh your email just arrived. Never mind.