[18:53] <kanashiro[m]> sorry, I will not be able to attend the DMB meeting today
[19:00] <rbasak> o/
[19:00] <sil2100> o/
[19:00] <seb128> howdy
[19:02] <bdmurray> heya
[19:03] <utkarsh2102> \o
[19:03] <seb128> great, quorum!
[19:04] <seb128> enr0n, hey?
[19:04] <enr0n> o/
[19:04] <seb128> sorry, those meetings feel chaotic, we need to pre-define a chair imho
[19:04] <utkarsh2102> should we start?
[19:04] <utkarsh2102> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[19:04] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:04:39 UTC.  The chair is utkarsh2102.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:04] <seb128> anyone wanting to chair?
[19:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:04] <seb128> utkarsh2102, thanks
[19:04] <rbasak> seb128: we used to do that, but then got equally stuck when the nominated chair was absent.
[19:05] <seb128> that's why we have a fallback chair in TB meetings
[19:05] <utkarsh2102> hey, so I'll get straight to the application and then I'll bring up seb128's comment as AOB later
[19:05] <rbasak> That didn't work either. Usually the fallback chair was also absent.
[19:05] <seb128> if the fallback is also missing then you get an issue...
[19:05] <seb128> utkarsh2102, ack
[19:05] <rbasak> Anyway, DMB attendance is better now
[19:05] <utkarsh2102> we have 1 core-dev application today
[19:05] <utkarsh2102> #topic Core Dev Applications
[19:05] <rbasak> I'm happy for us to try that again if people want
[19:05]  * sil2100 will brb in 2 minutes, just grabbing coffee
[19:06] <utkarsh2102> #subtopic Nick Rosbrook
[19:06] <utkarsh2102> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/enr0n/CoreDeveloperApplication
[19:06] <utkarsh2102> enr0n: hey, welcome back again! super excited for you to be here! \o
[19:06] <enr0n> utkarsh2102: thanks!
[19:06] <utkarsh2102> could you please take a quick second to re-introduce yourself, please?
[19:07] <enr0n> Sure. My name is Nick Rosbrook, aka enr0n, and I work on the Ubuntu Foundations team at Canonical. I am based in the Eastern US in the state of Vermont
[19:07] <utkarsh2102> enr0n: also, I intentionally didn't sponsor your MP last week! I am hoping you'd do that yourself!!!!!!!!!! :)
[19:07] <enr0n> utkarsh2102: ah well that would be nice!
[19:08] <utkarsh2102> I hereby open the floor for questions
[19:08] <utkarsh2102> I'll go first
[19:08] <rbasak> FYI, enr0n's previous application can be found here: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2023/02/06/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t16:07
[19:08] <utkarsh2102> enr0n: since the last application, what has changed? can you give a quick TL;DR?
[19:09]  * sil2100 is back
[19:09] <enr0n> utkarsh2102: Yeah. Since the last meeting I made the effort to work on a wider variety of packages in main, I took on more merges than I had previously, and I made a stronger effort to reach out to a wider group of sponsors
[19:11] <utkarsh2102> sweet!
[19:11] <utkarsh2102> thanks!
[19:12] <enr0n> Of course
[19:12] <rbasak> enr0n: have you manage to work on any transitions yet?
[19:12] <rbasak> managed
[19:12] <utkarsh2102> anyone else?
[19:13] <sil2100> enr0n: when working on +1 maintenance, how do you usually identify what to work on next?
[19:13] <sil2100> (great +1 maintenance reports btw.)
[19:14] <enr0n> rbasak: no, that is something I have not had the need/opportunity to work on yet. However I have tried to make myself aware of the process in the event that I do, and also so that I am aware of what's going on in the archive during transitions
[19:14] <utkarsh2102> seconded, good +1 reports, good stuff.
[19:14] <rbasak> enr0n: how would you verify that an upload that you're about to perform (eg. say you were uploading a new upstream version as a -0ubuntu1) won't trigger a transition?
[19:15] <enr0n> sil2100: typically I take the approach of starting at the bottom of the update excuse page and working my way up. I also read previous reports and update-excuse bugs to see if there is anything I can help finish
[19:17] <sil2100> enr0n: thanks o/
[19:18] <enr0n> rbasak: I am not aware if there is a true test for that, I guess. But the main indicators to me would be a new versioned binary package for a library, or anything indicating a ABI change like a soname bump
[19:18] <utkarsh2102> enr0n: as a side note, I'd rather have people not work from the bottom because those things are generally not super needed, things have been rotting for a while, et al. And not from the top because those are too new and the uploaders might be looking out for their uploads already. So the sweet spot is from 2/5th to 4/5th of the page. ;)
[19:18] <seb128> it's a tricky balance indeed
[19:18] <rbasak> enr0n: OK, thanks.
[19:18] <enr0n> utkarsh2102: yeah true, the bottom does tend to be bugs that have an update-excuse bug that is not actionable. But sometimes its worthing making sure old bugs do at least have an update-excuse bug with some context
[19:19] <utkarsh2102> yep
[19:19] <utkarsh2102> any more questions?
[19:19] <rbasak> enr0n: if somebody's upload gets stuck in proposed, who's expected to handle it?
[19:20] <enr0n> rbasak: the uploader
[19:21] <rbasak> enr0n: thanks. And is there a time when you cannot upload feature changes to the development release? If so, where can you find the schedule, and how would you determine if an upload you're about to perform contains a feature change?
[19:23] <enr0n> rbasak: yes, feature freeze is the time where such uploads are not allowed without a feature freeze exception. The release schedule is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ManticMinotaur/ReleaseSchedule (or whatever the devel release name is). I would need to look at the diff of the upload to determine if it contains a feature change
[19:24] <rbasak> enr0n: OK. And who do you need approval from if you need an exception?
[19:24] <enr0n> rbasak: the ubuntu release team
[19:25] <rbasak> Thanks. Setting aside exceptions, if you disagree with the technical content of an upload someone else has performed, how should you proceed?
[19:27] <enr0n> I suppose if were serious enough (rather than nitpicking) I would reach out to the person to try and discuss the change and see if we can improve it, or open a bug report if needed
[19:27] <rbasak> OK, and what would you do if that's not successful and you think an escalation is appropriate?
[19:28] <enr0n> I would reach out to a more senior member of my team, or maybe ask in #ubuntu-release for advice
[19:28] <rbasak> OK, thanks. I have no more questions.
[19:29] <utkarsh2102> sweet, no questions from me either
[19:30] <utkarsh2102> seb128, sil2100, bdmurray?
[19:30] <sil2100> No questions here
[19:30] <seb128> neither from me
[19:30] <bdmurray> none here
[19:31] <utkarsh2102> sil2100: ?
 No questions here
[19:32] <utkarsh2102> oh crap, missed it
[19:32] <utkarsh2102> let's proceed to vote
[19:33] <utkarsh2102> #vote Nick to get core-dev rights
[19:33] <meetingology> Please vote on: Nick to get core-dev rights
[19:33] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[19:33] <sil2100> +1
[19:33] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[19:33] <rbasak> +1 concerns raised at your previous application meeting have mostly been addressed, and you have generally good and to-the-point answers to our usual questions. While having some experience in driving transitions would be nice, I don't think it's a hard requirement to have experience of absolutely everything and your general understanding seems to be good across the board with examples of your work
[19:33] <meetingology> +1 concerns raised at your previous application meeting have mostly been addressed, and you have generally good and to-the-point answers to our usual questions. While having some experience in driving transitions would be nice, I don't think it's a hard requirement to have experience of absolutely everything and your general understanding seems to be good across the board with examples of your work received from rbasak
[19:33] <seb128> +1
[19:33] <meetingology> +1 received from seb128
[19:33] <rbasak> consistent with that. Thank you for all your work on Ubuntu!
[19:33] <bdmurray> +1 as I trust Nick, his judgement and decision making skills. I believe he will continue to look for guidance when uploading packages.
[19:33] <meetingology> +1 as I trust Nick, his judgement and decision making skills. I believe he will continue to look for guidance when uploading packages. received from bdmurray
[19:33] <utkarsh2102> +1; solid endorsements, lovely work, had the pleasure of meeting him in person, he's really kind. I've also seen quite a lot of his work, sponsored a couple of things, all neat and clean. Would be a net win for Ubuntu if he gets to core-dev.
[19:33] <meetingology> +1; solid endorsements, lovely work, had the pleasure of meeting him in person, he's really kind. I've also seen quite a lot of his work, sponsored a couple of things, all neat and clean. Would be a net win for Ubuntu if he gets to core-dev. received from utkarsh2102
[19:34] <utkarsh2102> #endvote
[19:34] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Nick to get core-dev rights
[19:34] <meetingology> Votes for: 5, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[19:34] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:34] <utkarsh2102> congratulations, enr0n! :D
[19:34] <dbungert> 🎉
[19:34] <enr0n> \o/
[19:35] <utkarsh2102> #action I'll take up the announements
[19:35] <meetingology> ACTION: I'll take up the announements
[19:35] <utkarsh2102> I mean, Utkarsh will, oof
[19:35] <utkarsh2102> anyway
[19:35] <enr0n> Thank you everyone!
[19:35] <utkarsh2102> moving to AOB
[19:35] <utkarsh2102> #topic AOB
 sorry, those meetings feel chaotic, we need to pre-define a chair imho
[19:36] <utkarsh2102> let's talk about that
[19:36] <utkarsh2102> seb128:^
[19:36] <seb128> yes please
[19:36] <sil2100> I think we tried pre-defining the chair in the past, but that didn't quite work as the DMB had trouble getting quorum
[19:36] <seb128> the define a chair/backuo for the next meeting works fine for the TB imho
[19:36] <sil2100> But I think doing it now shouldn't be such a problem, I think it will be rather rare for both the chair and the backup to be absent
[19:37] <seb128> if there is no quorum there is no meeting
[19:37] <seb128> should we optimize for the non working cases?
[19:37] <sil2100> And in case both are missing, which hopefully will be only infrequent, we can resolve tihngs as we do now, by volunteers
[19:37] <seb128> if they are absent then we just are in the same situation than today...
[19:37] <seb128> there isn't much to loose imho
[19:38] <sil2100> Exactly
[19:38] <sil2100> So I'd be +1 on that
[19:38] <seb128> should we vote?
[19:39] <rbasak> +1
[19:40] <seb128> +1
[19:40] <sil2100> I
[19:40] <utkarsh2102> +1
[19:40] <sil2100> I'm +1 of course too
[19:41] <bdmurray> To be cleare we are voting on having a chair and a backup chair for meetings going forward?
[19:41] <utkarsh2102> so are we going to define the chair for the subsequent meeting everytime?
[19:41] <seb128> bdmurray, yes
[19:41] <bdmurray> Okay, I'm a +1 on that
[19:41] <seb128> utkarsh2102, that's the suggestion, TB just do it in alphabetic order from the launchpad team
[19:42] <bdmurray> Choosing the next chair at the current meeting makes sense to me
[19:42] <utkarsh2102> hah!
[19:42] <utkarsh2102> right
[19:42] <bdmurray> As we should know our holiday schedule
[19:42] <utkarsh2102> to start things off, I can chair the next meeting, too :)
[19:42] <seb128> great :)
[19:43] <seb128> should we consider that as validated and go with the alphabetic order rule the TB using?
[19:43] <rbasak> Yes
[19:43] <seb128> great!
[19:43] <utkarsh2102> si
[19:43] <rbasak> I'm sure we'll all slip up and forget about planned absences. But that'll probably be fine usually. We'll deal with it.
[19:44] <seb128> I've another topic which is probably not fit to discuss now but I don't know what's the proper way to bring the subject
[19:44] <sil2100> utkarsh2102: who will be backup?
[19:44] <utkarsh2102> is that for me to decide?
[19:44] <utkarsh2102> I'll pick sil2100, hahaha
[19:44] <sil2100> I guess alphabetically that woul be me!
[19:44] <seb128> sil2100, let's go alphabetic from https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members so you
[19:44] <seb128> :p
[19:44] <sil2100> ;)
[19:46] <seb128> should we move on to the next topic(s)?
[19:47] <utkarsh2102> sure
[19:47] <utkarsh2102> is there any?
[19:47] <seb128> I've one which I'm unsure where to discuss
[19:47] <bdmurray> I believe so
[19:47] <utkarsh2102> #topic mythbuntu-dev
[19:47] <utkarsh2102> [bdmurray] Why is mythbuntu-dev still a delegated team when it isn't a flavor?
[19:47] <utkarsh2102> go go go
[19:47] <bdmurray> https://launchpad.net/~mythbuntu-dev/+members#active the only members are ubuntu-core-dev
[19:49] <bdmurray> I found the team listed under delegated teams at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard
[19:49] <rbasak> I guess someone needs to wind everything up there?
[19:49] <bdmurray> rbasak: Do have an idea of what "wind everything up" means?
[19:51] <rbasak> I don't, sorry.
[19:51] <rbasak> Anything outstanding like the delegation you spotted I guess?
[19:52] <rbasak> Should we contact the last known contacts first?
[19:52] <rbasak> Might be polite.
[19:52] <rbasak> (at least to try)
[19:52] <bdmurray> Sure, I can do that.
[19:53] <rbasak> But also, maybe a low priority since it isn't causing much harm right now?
[19:54] <utkarsh2102> si
[19:54] <bdmurray> Okay
[19:56] <utkarsh2102> let's move on?
[19:56] <seb128> yes!
[19:57] <seb128> so I had a topic which we aren't going to be able to discuss now but I would like to bring up for discussion
[19:58] <rbasak> seb128: could you add it to the agenda?
[19:58] <seb128> maybe the mailing list is better and I will post there
[19:58] <rbasak> Or sure, mailing list
[19:58] <seb128> just getting input
[19:58] <seb128> I think the current DMB line (from the past meetings record) discourage coredev applications
[19:59] <seb128> the 'you didn't work outside of you usual package set, you are not ready for coredev' line is damaging
[19:59] <seb128> you can have very skilled people that just work in a set
[19:59] <seb128> why would we deny them trust?
[20:00] <utkarsh2102> yep
[20:00] <seb128> it just feel them considered negatively which I think is helping nobody
[20:00] <utkarsh2102> okay, we have two AOB now
[20:00] <utkarsh2102> one from Brian and one from Seb
[20:00] <seb128> I will email the list
[20:00] <utkarsh2102> let's do it next time
[20:00] <sil2100> I think we should be more welcoming indeed, we should encourage applicants to work outside of their sets but not require it - if, of course, they demonstrate during the interview process that they know how to handle packages outside of their comfort zone
[20:01] <utkarsh2102> since we're at the top of the hour now
[20:01] <seb128> ack
[20:01] <bdmurray> +1 sil2100
[20:01] <seb128> I think think we are a velocity issue btw
[20:01] <seb128> we don't cover much in an hour, there is more gaps than active times in those meetings
[20:01] <seb128> which might be a 3rd AOB
[20:01] <seb128> utkarsh2102, thanks for chairing!
[20:01] <utkarsh2102> and also next meeting has only 1 contirbuting dev so we'll have more time to do these talks
[20:02] <utkarsh2102> sweet, np. Any last words before I shut this off? :)
[20:02] <utkarsh2102> this = meeting
[20:02] <utkarsh2102> not the topic, hehe
[20:02] <seb128> I'm not going to be there for the next one btw, summer holidays
[20:02] <utkarsh2102> uh oh
[20:02] <utkarsh2102> have fun, seb128 \o
[20:02] <utkarsh2102> #endmeeting
[20:02] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 20:02:49 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-07-10-19.04.moin.txt
[20:02] <seb128> utkarsh2102, thanks!
[20:02] <utkarsh2102> thanks, everyone! have a good one! \o
[20:03] <sil2100> o/
[20:03] <sil2100> utkarsh2102: thanks for chairing!