=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
KGB-0mutter ubuntu/jammy 940f498 Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/ series backends-x11-Return-zero-Hz-instead-of-nan-Hz-for-incompl.patch * Add backends-x11-Return-zero-Hz-instead-of-nan-Hz-for-incompl.patch * https://deb.li/3w9q711:47
KGB-0mutter signed tags cf5a528 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/42.9-0ubuntu2 * mutter Debian release 42.9-0ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/Xr211:51
KGB-0mutter ubuntu/jammy 8284ce0 Jeremy Bícha debian/changelog * releasing package mutter version 42.9-0ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/3OZTC11:51
GunnarHjHi kenvandine! seb128 suggested that I should consult with you about the snap implication of this proposal:15:25
GunnarHjOnce the changes have been made in the system (mantic), we'd need to make the snaps reflect the new font configuration. Will it be necessary to create a core23 or a gnome-42-2310 snap or both? Will it be possible to load gnome-42-2310 with the font configuration from mantic under development and link the latest/stable/ubuntu-23.10 snaps to that?15:25
GunnarHjBefore changing the system, it would be good to have a roadmap for how to deal with the snaps. I suppose we should avoid a long period of inconsistency.15:25
GunnarHjseb128: Wondering about https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/commit/?id=cc8498ab16:29
-ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit cc8498a in ~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu "Remove libreoffice specific dictionnaries from the desktop languages"16:29
GunnarHjAre you sure that those dicts are only useful in LibreOffice?16:29
seb128GunnarHj, there are built from the libreoffice-dictionaries source, also mythes-en-au Recommends libreoffice-write which was pulling the libreoffice stack back on the iso16:42
seb128I kept the hunspell dictionnaries 16:43
seb128but no, I'm not sure if they couldn't be of use for something else, I guess we will receive reports is someone is missing them16:43
GunnarHjseb128: Hmm.. Ok. I'm not sure either. But in any case I take it that pkg_depends should be changed so the presence of libreoffice-common is not a prerequisite for pulling hunspell dicts.16:49
seb128what is pkg_depends?16:49
jbichaGunnarHj: what is the effect of those files in the seed? we noticed that the packages are still kept in main because of a wildcard in the 'supported' file16:49
GunnarHjseb128: /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends16:50
seb128I guess16:54
seb128I woud need to check/remember how spellchecking is working in gedit for example but I think it's using enchant which uses hunspell and others sources16:55
GunnarHjjbicha: I suppose they can be demoted to universe if/when LO is. But hunspell needs to stay in supported with wildcards so hunspell-XX can be pulled at installation when applicable.16:55
GunnarHjseb128: enshant is about spell checking only I think.16:58
GunnarHjseb128: Except for English, are there so many other sources than hunspell for spellchecking?17:03
GunnarHjjbicha: is it ok to drop fonts-liberation2 from desktop-minimal?17:06
GunnarHjIt's a transitional package, v2 has been moved to fonts-liberation which is in desktop-common, and fonts-liberation2 has been dropped from unstable.17:06
jbichaGunnarHj: yes, go ahead and drop liberation217:08
GunnarHjjbicha: Ok. I'll do it in a few days when making other fonts related changes in the seed.17:11
KGB-0gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 3216c6b Jeremy Bícha debian/patches/ series Check-best_mode-exist-before-adding-flag.patch * Cherry-pick patch to fix mirror mode crash when monitor resolutions don't match * https://deb.li/30ehn17:36
KGB-0gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 67a33e0 Jeremy Bícha debian/changelog * releasing package gnome-control-center version 1:44.3-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/deee17:36
KGB-2gnome-control-center signed tags ace1077 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/1%44.3-1ubuntu2 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:44.3-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/9ogj18:30
juliankjbicha: can  I read anything about why simple-scan and various others are dropped?18:37
julianktotem is hard, people not playing videos anymore? :D18:40
juliankI guess probabyl18:40
KGB-0eog tags 7566b25 Jeremy Bicha upstream/44.3 * Upstream version 44.3 * https://deb.li/39SXC18:42
KGB-2eog upstream/latest c583448 Jeremy Bicha * pushed 8 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3xt9h18:42
KGB-2eog upstream/latest feb3dbc Felix Riemann meson.build * Post-release version bump * https://deb.li/ileWc18:42
KGB-2eog upstream/latest d37397e Sveinn í Felli po/is.po * Update Icelandic translation * https://deb.li/lVz18:42
KGB-2eog upstream/latest 72ae0aa Felix Riemann meson.build * build: Bump minimum glib version to 2.73.2 * https://deb.li/3xmls18:42
KGB-2eog upstream/latest 0cbb68f Rafael Fontenelle po/pt_BR.po * Update Brazilian Portuguese translation * https://deb.li/bLgv18:42
KGB-2eog upstream/latest ed91f19 Bruce Cowan po/en_GB.po * Update British English translation * https://deb.li/39oIn18:42
KGB-2eog pristine-tar c8ace22 Jarred Wilson eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz.delta eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/KoNe18:42
jbichajuliank: there's a long thread at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/rethinking-ubuntu-desktop-a-more-thoughtful-default-installation/3673618:44
jbichajuliank: I expect simple-scan at least would come back. That was just a first draft based on what the old -minimal was doing18:45
jbichajuliank: I'm guessing you noticed because of bug 202663718:46
-ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Bug 2026637 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "[mantic] many useful apps are marked for auto removal" [High, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202663718:46
juliankjbicha: yeah that's a feature not a bug I'd say18:49
juliankjbicha: one can demote them to suggests in theory so they stay installed but we made ubuntu-release-upgrader also delete suggests so ...18:50
juliankand germinate doesn't do suggests18:50
jbichawe should have ubuntu-release-upgrader keep some of these installed, right?18:51
juliankThe reasonings for those are (1) we want users who upgrade to have the same experience as users on a fresh install, (2) we want to clean up as much cruft as possible18:51
juliankif the users have atime for /usr u-r-u can stat the atime I guess and mark used apps as manually installed18:52
juliankoh and (3) behavior changes are to be expected during a release upgrade18:53
juliankthere may be better ways to track usage of the apps, idk18:53
juliankotherwise one might add a ubuntu-desktop-legacy seed and then include the apps in there that were removed and install that18:55
juliankthat can be removed from the archive after, and it can be marked for removal automatically which would transition its dependencies to manually installed18:56
juliank(when removing a metapackage explicitly, dependencies become autoremovable; if the metapackage is removed due to a conflict or something, the manual bit of the metapackage transitions to the dependencies)18:57
jbichado you want to leave a comment on the bug about the metapackage idea?18:58
juliankI need to express the concept in a more thought out manner but yes19:00
juliankThe problem is for devel users, a ubuntu-desktop-legacy would not be installed without a Recommends from ubuntu-desktop19:01
juliankwhich I guess you could have for a month and then drop it?19:01
jbichamy original idea of u-r-u wouldn't have helped devel users either19:02
jbichamaybe it's useful for our devel users to have these marked for autoremoval to encourage feedback on the proposal19:03
KGB-2epiphany-browser tags 4bc64f3 Jeremy Bicha upstream/44.5 * Upstream version 44.5 * https://deb.li/o4xA19:06
KGB-0epiphany-browser pristine-tar 737c830 Jarred Wilson epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz.delta epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/Yoa719:06
seb128juliank, jbicha, I think it's bad taste to remove those applications for users upgrading, it's not that we decided those are deprecated but rather than people should do the customization themself after installation19:07
seb128but if they are happy with what we provided and use them regularly it's going to be a WTH moment after upgrade if those things are missing19:08
juliankit's just figuring out how to keep them installed19:08
juliankwe can also make germinate handle suggests I guess19:08
juliankthen you can re-add them as like ((totem)) or something19:08
juliankthey would remain installed for devel users, but you need some u-r-u quirk still19:09
juliankI don't know how much we care about the devel users losing apps19:09
seb128probably less than users on stable series19:10
juliankubuntu-desktop-legacy makes it clear which apps were demoted I suppose19:10
juliankperhaps a bad name19:10
juliankthen users if they remove ubuntu-desktop-classic, they will get autoremovals offered again19:10
juliankvs just piling on manual dependencies19:10
juliankBut I don't have the strongest of opinions19:11
juliankwhen I did the work to make sure everything is marked as automatically installed, our thought was more about replacing apps rather than dropping functionality from the default set19:11
juliankwell and libraries for sure19:13
juliankeven libc6 used to be manually installed :D19:13
seb128right, that's not an usual situation but rather a shift of definition of what desktop is19:13
juliankan ubuntu-desktop-23.04  containing stuff that was in 23.04 but removed in 23.1019:13
jbichayes, this is an exceptional case for Ubuntu Desktop although I guess some other desktop flavors occasionally do big changes too19:13
juliankone could version the experiences offered lol19:13
juliankthen you accumulate ubuntu-desktop-$foo each time you upgrade from $foo19:14
juliankjak@jak-t14-g3:~:master$ aptitude why totem19:15
julianki   ubuntu-desktop-minimal Depends  nautilus           19:15
julianki A nautilus               Suggests totem | mp3-decoder19:15
julianktotem at least remains installed during devel lifetime :D19:15
juliankeven chrome os has cheese, totem equivalents installed19:15
juliankand a simple scan equivalent19:15
juliankI think there's a new cooler scanning app in GNOME now?19:16
jbichaGNOME 45 is expected to include a new core app, Snapshot as a webcam app to replace Cheese . I haven't tried it yet. No Effects.19:17
julianklibreoffice kind of makes more sense for people to use snap19:17
jbichaI don't think anyone has tried to build a better simple-scan19:17
jbichaSnapshot is a Rust app. If it appears as a .deb this cycle, it will arrive late19:18
jbichano time for MIRing it or Loupe (an EOG subsitute)19:18
juliankback in the day we had integration in nautilus with packagekit to automatically install mime handlers19:19
juliankI think that's all dead19:19
juliankbut e.g. it would make sense if one doesn't ship libreoffice that clicking a .doc suggests the snap19:19
julianksimple-scan has a newer flatpak than snap19:20
juliankoh perhaps we can have those applications like lazily installed19:22
julianklike what if gnome shell showed you the apps sort of greyed out and if you click them the store opens to intsall them19:22
juliankI've seen this somewhere19:23
julianksearch for email find no app, offer thunderbird snap19:24
seb128juliank, the nautilus/packagkit integration is expected to be still working (maybe it's not but that would be a bug and an important one to fix as we remove some applications)19:31
juliankyup it does19:45
juliankthe gnome-software fork that is still used just is ugh19:45
juliankno icons, and just ordered alphabetically19:45
juliankwhatever happens one would expect us to have highlighted apps for mime types19:46
julianka list of apps somewhere of favorites and group them above other apps19:47
juliankto guide users to the optimal experience19:47
=== fossfreedom__ is now known as fossfreedom_
=== popey2 is now known as popey

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!