| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| KGB-0 | mutter ubuntu/jammy 940f498 Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/ series backends-x11-Return-zero-Hz-instead-of-nan-Hz-for-incompl.patch * Add backends-x11-Return-zero-Hz-instead-of-nan-Hz-for-incompl.patch * https://deb.li/3w9q7 | 11:47 |
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| KGB-0 | mutter signed tags cf5a528 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/42.9-0ubuntu2 * mutter Debian release 42.9-0ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/Xr2 | 11:51 |
| KGB-0 | mutter ubuntu/jammy 8284ce0 Jeremy Bícha debian/changelog * releasing package mutter version 42.9-0ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/3OZTC | 11:51 |
| GunnarHj | Hi kenvandine! seb128 suggested that I should consult with you about the snap implication of this proposal: | 15:25 |
| GunnarHj | https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/let-selection-of-default-fonts-be-based-on-noto/36923 | 15:25 |
| GunnarHj | Once the changes have been made in the system (mantic), we'd need to make the snaps reflect the new font configuration. Will it be necessary to create a core23 or a gnome-42-2310 snap or both? Will it be possible to load gnome-42-2310 with the font configuration from mantic under development and link the latest/stable/ubuntu-23.10 snaps to that? | 15:25 |
| GunnarHj | Before changing the system, it would be good to have a roadmap for how to deal with the snaps. I suppose we should avoid a long period of inconsistency. | 15:25 |
| GunnarHj | seb128: Wondering about https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/commit/?id=cc8498ab | 16:29 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit cc8498a in ~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu "Remove libreoffice specific dictionnaries from the desktop languages" | 16:29 | |
| GunnarHj | Are you sure that those dicts are only useful in LibreOffice? | 16:29 |
| seb128 | GunnarHj, there are built from the libreoffice-dictionaries source, also mythes-en-au Recommends libreoffice-write which was pulling the libreoffice stack back on the iso | 16:42 |
| seb128 | I kept the hunspell dictionnaries | 16:43 |
| seb128 | but no, I'm not sure if they couldn't be of use for something else, I guess we will receive reports is someone is missing them | 16:43 |
| GunnarHj | seb128: Hmm.. Ok. I'm not sure either. But in any case I take it that pkg_depends should be changed so the presence of libreoffice-common is not a prerequisite for pulling hunspell dicts. | 16:49 |
| seb128 | what is pkg_depends? | 16:49 |
| jbicha | GunnarHj: what is the effect of those files in the seed? we noticed that the packages are still kept in main because of a wildcard in the 'supported' file | 16:49 |
| GunnarHj | seb128: /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends | 16:50 |
| seb128 | I guess | 16:54 |
| seb128 | I woud need to check/remember how spellchecking is working in gedit for example but I think it's using enchant which uses hunspell and others sources | 16:55 |
| seb128 | https://abiword.github.io/enchant/ | 16:55 |
| GunnarHj | jbicha: I suppose they can be demoted to universe if/when LO is. But hunspell needs to stay in supported with wildcards so hunspell-XX can be pulled at installation when applicable. | 16:55 |
| GunnarHj | seb128: enshant is about spell checking only I think. | 16:58 |
| GunnarHj | seb128: Except for English, are there so many other sources than hunspell for spellchecking? | 17:03 |
| GunnarHj | jbicha: is it ok to drop fonts-liberation2 from desktop-minimal? | 17:06 |
| GunnarHj | https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/tree/desktop-minimal#n131 | 17:06 |
| GunnarHj | It's a transitional package, v2 has been moved to fonts-liberation which is in desktop-common, and fonts-liberation2 has been dropped from unstable. | 17:06 |
| jbicha | GunnarHj: yes, go ahead and drop liberation2 | 17:08 |
| GunnarHj | jbicha: Ok. I'll do it in a few days when making other fonts related changes in the seed. | 17:11 |
| KGB-0 | gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 3216c6b Jeremy Bícha debian/patches/ series Check-best_mode-exist-before-adding-flag.patch * Cherry-pick patch to fix mirror mode crash when monitor resolutions don't match * https://deb.li/30ehn | 17:36 |
| KGB-0 | gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 67a33e0 Jeremy Bícha debian/changelog * releasing package gnome-control-center version 1:44.3-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/deee | 17:36 |
| KGB-2 | gnome-control-center signed tags ace1077 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/1%44.3-1ubuntu2 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:44.3-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/9ogj | 18:30 |
| juliank | jbicha: can I read anything about why simple-scan and various others are dropped? | 18:37 |
| juliank | totem is hard, people not playing videos anymore? :D | 18:40 |
| juliank | I guess probabyl | 18:40 |
| KGB-0 | eog tags 7566b25 Jeremy Bicha upstream/44.3 * Upstream version 44.3 * https://deb.li/39SXC | 18:42 |
| KGB-2 | eog upstream/latest c583448 Jeremy Bicha * pushed 8 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3xt9h | 18:42 |
| KGB-2 | eog upstream/latest feb3dbc Felix Riemann meson.build * Post-release version bump * https://deb.li/ileWc | 18:42 |
| KGB-2 | eog upstream/latest d37397e Sveinn í Felli po/is.po * Update Icelandic translation * https://deb.li/lVz | 18:42 |
| KGB-2 | eog upstream/latest 72ae0aa Felix Riemann meson.build * build: Bump minimum glib version to 2.73.2 * https://deb.li/3xmls | 18:42 |
| KGB-2 | eog upstream/latest 0cbb68f Rafael Fontenelle po/pt_BR.po * Update Brazilian Portuguese translation * https://deb.li/bLgv | 18:42 |
| KGB-2 | eog upstream/latest ed91f19 Bruce Cowan po/en_GB.po * Update British English translation * https://deb.li/39oIn | 18:42 |
| KGB-2 | eog pristine-tar c8ace22 Jarred Wilson eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz.delta eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/KoNe | 18:42 |
| jbicha | juliank: there's a long thread at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/rethinking-ubuntu-desktop-a-more-thoughtful-default-installation/36736 | 18:44 |
| juliank | thanks! | 18:44 |
| jbicha | juliank: I expect simple-scan at least would come back. That was just a first draft based on what the old -minimal was doing | 18:45 |
| jbicha | juliank: I'm guessing you noticed because of bug 2026637 | 18:46 |
| -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Bug 2026637 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "[mantic] many useful apps are marked for auto removal" [High, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2026637 | 18:46 | |
| juliank | jbicha: yeah that's a feature not a bug I'd say | 18:49 |
| juliank | jbicha: one can demote them to suggests in theory so they stay installed but we made ubuntu-release-upgrader also delete suggests so ... | 18:50 |
| juliank | and germinate doesn't do suggests | 18:50 |
| juliank | (AFAIK) | 18:51 |
| jbicha | we should have ubuntu-release-upgrader keep some of these installed, right? | 18:51 |
| juliank | The reasonings for those are (1) we want users who upgrade to have the same experience as users on a fresh install, (2) we want to clean up as much cruft as possible | 18:51 |
| juliank | if the users have atime for /usr u-r-u can stat the atime I guess and mark used apps as manually installed | 18:52 |
| juliank | oh and (3) behavior changes are to be expected during a release upgrade | 18:53 |
| juliank | there may be better ways to track usage of the apps, idk | 18:53 |
| juliank | otherwise one might add a ubuntu-desktop-legacy seed and then include the apps in there that were removed and install that | 18:55 |
| juliank | that can be removed from the archive after, and it can be marked for removal automatically which would transition its dependencies to manually installed | 18:56 |
| juliank | (when removing a metapackage explicitly, dependencies become autoremovable; if the metapackage is removed due to a conflict or something, the manual bit of the metapackage transitions to the dependencies) | 18:57 |
| jbicha | do you want to leave a comment on the bug about the metapackage idea? | 18:58 |
| juliank | I need to express the concept in a more thought out manner but yes | 19:00 |
| juliank | The problem is for devel users, a ubuntu-desktop-legacy would not be installed without a Recommends from ubuntu-desktop | 19:01 |
| juliank | which I guess you could have for a month and then drop it? | 19:01 |
| jbicha | my original idea of u-r-u wouldn't have helped devel users either | 19:02 |
| jbicha | maybe it's useful for our devel users to have these marked for autoremoval to encourage feedback on the proposal | 19:03 |
| juliank | possibly | 19:04 |
| KGB-2 | epiphany-browser tags 4bc64f3 Jeremy Bicha upstream/44.5 * Upstream version 44.5 * https://deb.li/o4xA | 19:06 |
| KGB-0 | epiphany-browser pristine-tar 737c830 Jarred Wilson epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz.delta epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/Yoa7 | 19:06 |
| seb128 | juliank, jbicha, I think it's bad taste to remove those applications for users upgrading, it's not that we decided those are deprecated but rather than people should do the customization themself after installation | 19:07 |
| seb128 | but if they are happy with what we provided and use them regularly it's going to be a WTH moment after upgrade if those things are missing | 19:08 |
| juliank | it's just figuring out how to keep them installed | 19:08 |
| juliank | we can also make germinate handle suggests I guess | 19:08 |
| juliank | then you can re-add them as like ((totem)) or something | 19:08 |
| juliank | they would remain installed for devel users, but you need some u-r-u quirk still | 19:09 |
| juliank | I don't know how much we care about the devel users losing apps | 19:09 |
| seb128 | probably less than users on stable series | 19:10 |
| juliank | ubuntu-desktop-legacy makes it clear which apps were demoted I suppose | 19:10 |
| juliank | perhaps a bad name | 19:10 |
| juliank | ubuntu-desktop-classic | 19:10 |
| juliank | then users if they remove ubuntu-desktop-classic, they will get autoremovals offered again | 19:10 |
| juliank | vs just piling on manual dependencies | 19:10 |
| juliank | But I don't have the strongest of opinions | 19:11 |
| juliank | when I did the work to make sure everything is marked as automatically installed, our thought was more about replacing apps rather than dropping functionality from the default set | 19:11 |
| juliank | well and libraries for sure | 19:13 |
| juliank | even libc6 used to be manually installed :D | 19:13 |
| seb128 | right, that's not an usual situation but rather a shift of definition of what desktop is | 19:13 |
| juliank | an ubuntu-desktop-23.04 containing stuff that was in 23.04 but removed in 23.10 | 19:13 |
| jbicha | yes, this is an exceptional case for Ubuntu Desktop although I guess some other desktop flavors occasionally do big changes too | 19:13 |
| juliank | one could version the experiences offered lol | 19:13 |
| juliank | then you accumulate ubuntu-desktop-$foo each time you upgrade from $foo | 19:14 |
| juliank | jak@jak-t14-g3:~:master$ aptitude why totem | 19:15 |
| juliank | i ubuntu-desktop-minimal Depends nautilus | 19:15 |
| juliank | i A nautilus Suggests totem | mp3-decoder | 19:15 |
| juliank | totem at least remains installed during devel lifetime :D | 19:15 |
| juliank | even chrome os has cheese, totem equivalents installed | 19:15 |
| juliank | and a simple scan equivalent | 19:15 |
| juliank | I think there's a new cooler scanning app in GNOME now? | 19:16 |
| jbicha | GNOME 45 is expected to include a new core app, Snapshot as a webcam app to replace Cheese . I haven't tried it yet. No Effects. | 19:17 |
| juliank | libreoffice kind of makes more sense for people to use snap | 19:17 |
| jbicha | I don't think anyone has tried to build a better simple-scan | 19:17 |
| jbicha | Snapshot is a Rust app. If it appears as a .deb this cycle, it will arrive late | 19:18 |
| juliank | hooray | 19:18 |
| jbicha | no time for MIRing it or Loupe (an EOG subsitute) | 19:18 |
| juliank | back in the day we had integration in nautilus with packagekit to automatically install mime handlers | 19:19 |
| juliank | I think that's all dead | 19:19 |
| juliank | but e.g. it would make sense if one doesn't ship libreoffice that clicking a .doc suggests the snap | 19:19 |
| juliank | simple-scan has a newer flatpak than snap | 19:20 |
| juliank | oh perhaps we can have those applications like lazily installed | 19:22 |
| juliank | like what if gnome shell showed you the apps sort of greyed out and if you click them the store opens to intsall them | 19:22 |
| juliank | I've seen this somewhere | 19:23 |
| juliank | search for email find no app, offer thunderbird snap | 19:24 |
| seb128 | juliank, the nautilus/packagkit integration is expected to be still working (maybe it's not but that would be a bug and an important one to fix as we remove some applications) | 19:31 |
| juliank | yup it does | 19:45 |
| juliank | the gnome-software fork that is still used just is ugh | 19:45 |
| juliank | no icons, and just ordered alphabetically | 19:45 |
| juliank | whatever happens one would expect us to have highlighted apps for mime types | 19:46 |
| juliank | a list of apps somewhere of favorites and group them above other apps | 19:47 |
| juliank | to guide users to the optimal experience | 19:47 |
| === fossfreedom__ is now known as fossfreedom_ | ||
| === popey2 is now known as popey | ||
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