=== JanC_ is now known as JanC [11:47] mutter ubuntu/jammy 940f498 Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/ series backends-x11-Return-zero-Hz-instead-of-nan-Hz-for-incompl.patch * Add backends-x11-Return-zero-Hz-instead-of-nan-Hz-for-incompl.patch * https://deb.li/3w9q7 [11:51] mutter signed tags cf5a528 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/42.9-0ubuntu2 * mutter Debian release 42.9-0ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/Xr2 [11:51] mutter ubuntu/jammy 8284ce0 Jeremy Bícha debian/changelog * releasing package mutter version 42.9-0ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/3OZTC [15:25] Hi kenvandine! seb128 suggested that I should consult with you about the snap implication of this proposal: [15:25] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/let-selection-of-default-fonts-be-based-on-noto/36923 [15:25] Once the changes have been made in the system (mantic), we'd need to make the snaps reflect the new font configuration. Will it be necessary to create a core23 or a gnome-42-2310 snap or both? Will it be possible to load gnome-42-2310 with the font configuration from mantic under development and link the latest/stable/ubuntu-23.10 snaps to that? [15:25] Before changing the system, it would be good to have a roadmap for how to deal with the snaps. I suppose we should avoid a long period of inconsistency. [16:29] seb128: Wondering about https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/commit/?id=cc8498ab [16:29] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Commit cc8498a in ~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu "Remove libreoffice specific dictionnaries from the desktop languages" [16:29] Are you sure that those dicts are only useful in LibreOffice? [16:42] GunnarHj, there are built from the libreoffice-dictionaries source, also mythes-en-au Recommends libreoffice-write which was pulling the libreoffice stack back on the iso [16:43] I kept the hunspell dictionnaries [16:43] but no, I'm not sure if they couldn't be of use for something else, I guess we will receive reports is someone is missing them [16:49] seb128: Hmm.. Ok. I'm not sure either. But in any case I take it that pkg_depends should be changed so the presence of libreoffice-common is not a prerequisite for pulling hunspell dicts. [16:49] what is pkg_depends? [16:49] GunnarHj: what is the effect of those files in the seed? we noticed that the packages are still kept in main because of a wildcard in the 'supported' file [16:50] seb128: /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends [16:54] I guess [16:55] I woud need to check/remember how spellchecking is working in gedit for example but I think it's using enchant which uses hunspell and others sources [16:55] https://abiword.github.io/enchant/ [16:55] jbicha: I suppose they can be demoted to universe if/when LO is. But hunspell needs to stay in supported with wildcards so hunspell-XX can be pulled at installation when applicable. [16:58] seb128: enshant is about spell checking only I think. [17:03] seb128: Except for English, are there so many other sources than hunspell for spellchecking? [17:06] jbicha: is it ok to drop fonts-liberation2 from desktop-minimal? [17:06] https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/tree/desktop-minimal#n131 [17:06] It's a transitional package, v2 has been moved to fonts-liberation which is in desktop-common, and fonts-liberation2 has been dropped from unstable. [17:08] GunnarHj: yes, go ahead and drop liberation2 [17:11] jbicha: Ok. I'll do it in a few days when making other fonts related changes in the seed. [17:36] gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 3216c6b Jeremy Bícha debian/patches/ series Check-best_mode-exist-before-adding-flag.patch * Cherry-pick patch to fix mirror mode crash when monitor resolutions don't match * https://deb.li/30ehn [17:36] gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 67a33e0 Jeremy Bícha debian/changelog * releasing package gnome-control-center version 1:44.3-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/deee [18:30] gnome-control-center signed tags ace1077 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/1%44.3-1ubuntu2 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:44.3-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/9ogj [18:37] jbicha: can I read anything about why simple-scan and various others are dropped? [18:40] totem is hard, people not playing videos anymore? :D [18:40] I guess probabyl [18:42] eog tags 7566b25 Jeremy Bicha upstream/44.3 * Upstream version 44.3 * https://deb.li/39SXC [18:42] eog upstream/latest c583448 Jeremy Bicha * pushed 8 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3xt9h [18:42] eog upstream/latest feb3dbc Felix Riemann meson.build * Post-release version bump * https://deb.li/ileWc [18:42] eog upstream/latest d37397e Sveinn í Felli po/is.po * Update Icelandic translation * https://deb.li/lVz [18:42] eog upstream/latest 72ae0aa Felix Riemann meson.build * build: Bump minimum glib version to 2.73.2 * https://deb.li/3xmls [18:42] eog upstream/latest 0cbb68f Rafael Fontenelle po/pt_BR.po * Update Brazilian Portuguese translation * https://deb.li/bLgv [18:42] eog upstream/latest ed91f19 Bruce Cowan po/en_GB.po * Update British English translation * https://deb.li/39oIn [18:42] eog pristine-tar c8ace22 Jarred Wilson eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz.delta eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for eog_44.3.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/KoNe [18:44] juliank: there's a long thread at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/rethinking-ubuntu-desktop-a-more-thoughtful-default-installation/36736 [18:44] thanks! [18:45] juliank: I expect simple-scan at least would come back. That was just a first draft based on what the old -minimal was doing [18:46] juliank: I'm guessing you noticed because of bug 2026637 [18:46] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Bug 2026637 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "[mantic] many useful apps are marked for auto removal" [High, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2026637 [18:49] jbicha: yeah that's a feature not a bug I'd say [18:50] jbicha: one can demote them to suggests in theory so they stay installed but we made ubuntu-release-upgrader also delete suggests so ... [18:50] and germinate doesn't do suggests [18:51] (AFAIK) [18:51] we should have ubuntu-release-upgrader keep some of these installed, right? [18:51] The reasonings for those are (1) we want users who upgrade to have the same experience as users on a fresh install, (2) we want to clean up as much cruft as possible [18:52] if the users have atime for /usr u-r-u can stat the atime I guess and mark used apps as manually installed [18:53] oh and (3) behavior changes are to be expected during a release upgrade [18:53] there may be better ways to track usage of the apps, idk [18:55] otherwise one might add a ubuntu-desktop-legacy seed and then include the apps in there that were removed and install that [18:56] that can be removed from the archive after, and it can be marked for removal automatically which would transition its dependencies to manually installed [18:57] (when removing a metapackage explicitly, dependencies become autoremovable; if the metapackage is removed due to a conflict or something, the manual bit of the metapackage transitions to the dependencies) [18:58] do you want to leave a comment on the bug about the metapackage idea? [19:00] I need to express the concept in a more thought out manner but yes [19:01] The problem is for devel users, a ubuntu-desktop-legacy would not be installed without a Recommends from ubuntu-desktop [19:01] which I guess you could have for a month and then drop it? [19:02] my original idea of u-r-u wouldn't have helped devel users either [19:03] maybe it's useful for our devel users to have these marked for autoremoval to encourage feedback on the proposal [19:04] possibly [19:06] epiphany-browser tags 4bc64f3 Jeremy Bicha upstream/44.5 * Upstream version 44.5 * https://deb.li/o4xA [19:06] epiphany-browser pristine-tar 737c830 Jarred Wilson epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz.delta epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for epiphany-browser_44.5.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/Yoa7 [19:07] juliank, jbicha, I think it's bad taste to remove those applications for users upgrading, it's not that we decided those are deprecated but rather than people should do the customization themself after installation [19:08] but if they are happy with what we provided and use them regularly it's going to be a WTH moment after upgrade if those things are missing [19:08] it's just figuring out how to keep them installed [19:08] we can also make germinate handle suggests I guess [19:08] then you can re-add them as like ((totem)) or something [19:09] they would remain installed for devel users, but you need some u-r-u quirk still [19:09] I don't know how much we care about the devel users losing apps [19:10] probably less than users on stable series [19:10] ubuntu-desktop-legacy makes it clear which apps were demoted I suppose [19:10] perhaps a bad name [19:10] ubuntu-desktop-classic [19:10] then users if they remove ubuntu-desktop-classic, they will get autoremovals offered again [19:10] vs just piling on manual dependencies [19:11] But I don't have the strongest of opinions [19:11] when I did the work to make sure everything is marked as automatically installed, our thought was more about replacing apps rather than dropping functionality from the default set [19:13] well and libraries for sure [19:13] even libc6 used to be manually installed :D [19:13] right, that's not an usual situation but rather a shift of definition of what desktop is [19:13] an ubuntu-desktop-23.04 containing stuff that was in 23.04 but removed in 23.10 [19:13] yes, this is an exceptional case for Ubuntu Desktop although I guess some other desktop flavors occasionally do big changes too [19:13] one could version the experiences offered lol [19:14] then you accumulate ubuntu-desktop-$foo each time you upgrade from $foo [19:15] jak@jak-t14-g3:~:master$ aptitude why totem [19:15] i ubuntu-desktop-minimal Depends nautilus [19:15] i A nautilus Suggests totem | mp3-decoder [19:15] totem at least remains installed during devel lifetime :D [19:15] even chrome os has cheese, totem equivalents installed [19:15] and a simple scan equivalent [19:16] I think there's a new cooler scanning app in GNOME now? [19:17] GNOME 45 is expected to include a new core app, Snapshot as a webcam app to replace Cheese . I haven't tried it yet. No Effects. [19:17] libreoffice kind of makes more sense for people to use snap [19:17] I don't think anyone has tried to build a better simple-scan [19:18] Snapshot is a Rust app. If it appears as a .deb this cycle, it will arrive late [19:18] hooray [19:18] no time for MIRing it or Loupe (an EOG subsitute) [19:19] back in the day we had integration in nautilus with packagekit to automatically install mime handlers [19:19] I think that's all dead [19:19] but e.g. it would make sense if one doesn't ship libreoffice that clicking a .doc suggests the snap [19:20] simple-scan has a newer flatpak than snap [19:22] oh perhaps we can have those applications like lazily installed [19:22] like what if gnome shell showed you the apps sort of greyed out and if you click them the store opens to intsall them [19:23] I've seen this somewhere [19:24] search for email find no app, offer thunderbird snap [19:31] juliank, the nautilus/packagkit integration is expected to be still working (maybe it's not but that would be a bug and an important one to fix as we remove some applications) [19:45] yup it does [19:45] the gnome-software fork that is still used just is ugh [19:45] no icons, and just ordered alphabetically [19:46] whatever happens one would expect us to have highlighted apps for mime types [19:47] a list of apps somewhere of favorites and group them above other apps [19:47] to guide users to the optimal experience === fossfreedom__ is now known as fossfreedom_ === popey2 is now known as popey