[12:32] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[19:01] <Eickmeyer> clivejo: Well, I hate to tell you this, but Kubuntu, by the very nature of being an official Ubuntu flavor, *is* Ubuntu and not a separate distribution. I've been trying to break all official flavors of being islands in the Ubuntu community for years now.
[19:08] <valorie> Eickmeyer: yes, but I don't like and don't use snaps either
[19:09] <valorie> I've had zero problems with flatpaks
[19:09] <Eickmeyer> valorie: Understandable, but my point is it's a reality that's not leaving. Regarding the kernel cleanup, imagine there's a kernel security update. (cont'd)
[19:09] <valorie> appimages are less desirable
[19:10] <Eickmeyer> You try to install them, but you have a separate /boot partition that fills-up with previous kernel images.
[19:10] <Eickmeyer> If unattended-upgrades wasn't allowed to clean-out those old kernel images, you apt would get stuck and you wouldn't even be able to clean them out. It's that bad.
[19:11] <Eickmeyer> *your apt
[19:11] <valorie> speaking of updates, I need to restart
[19:11] <Eickmeyer> hehe, have fun.
[19:11] <valorie> I think I allow unattended upgrades and I hope that has nothing to do with snaps
[19:12] <Eickmeyer> It merely runs a 'snap refresh' in the background.
[19:12] <Eickmeyer> That's akin to 'apt update && apt upgrade'
[19:12] <valorie> which is fun, I have no snap infra installed
[19:12] <valorie> fine, not fun
[19:12] <Eickmeyer> Then you're fine.
[19:12] <valorie> ttfn
[19:13] <Eickmeyer> o/
[19:14] <mmikowski> Hi Valorie and Eickmeyer. I was just lurking. Erich, I very much appreciate your guidance about keeping upstream compatible; it's got trade offs, but ultimately the right choice.
[19:15] <Eickmeyer> mmikowski: Again, with the mentality, Ubuntu isn't an upstream, they're a samestream.
[19:16] <Eickmeyer> I just want to make everyone understand that it's all the same team.
[19:17] <Eickmeyer> mmikowski: But, I appreciate it.
[19:21] <mmikowski> Right. I meant with the enhancements we added for the hardware. It was and is a very important consideration.
[19:22] <mmikowski> More correctly: additions for the hardware support.
[19:40] <Eickmeyer> mmikowski: Right. I'm talking Kubuntu in general.
[20:00] <valorie> Eickmeyer: there is a history here to deal with and some of us have been around for a very long time
[20:00] <valorie> "blue-headed stepchild" still feels somewhat apt
[20:01] <Eickmeyer> valorie: I understand. Just trying to mend the rift. It needs to happen, badly.
[20:01] <valorie> and I've been working for the same thing
[20:01] <Eickmeyer> The community team wants to do the same, I assure you. They just don't know this is happening, sadly.
[20:02] <valorie> and it's true that we are more fossy than Canonical
[20:02] <valorie> always have been
[20:04] <Eickmeyer> In my opinion, an "us vs them" mentality is what needs to stop, no matter who is responsible. It's easy to point fingers, it's a lot harder (and, in my opinion, more noble) to just move forward regardless of what happened in the past.
[20:04] <Eickmeyer> That goes for both sides.
[20:06] <clivejo> I just don't appreciate being told what should be on MY machine
[20:06] <clivejo> that's why I format M$ off my machines
[20:07] <valorie> bbiab
[20:07] <Eickmeyer> clivejo: No need to be hostile. You can remove and disable whatever you want. I just told you what to do to disable it. The system settings gui doesn't care about what is under the hood. unattended-upgrades in an Ubuntu-only thing, and system settings doesn't care since it's distro-agnostic.
[20:08] <clivejo> I'm not being hostile, just stating a fact
[20:08] <Eickmeyer> Sorry, you just had some aggressive undertones.
[20:09] <clivejo> just a blunt Irish man who calls a spade a spade
[20:10] <Eickmeyer> I'll tell you what I see a lot: when people disable stuff like that, they get mad when stuff breaks that they didn't expect to break and then blame the OS when really it was their own doing that broke it. I honestly don't have much patience for that.
[20:10] <clivejo> my point on the matter was that if it is disabled in Kubuntu settings, the user would expect that to be system wide
[20:11] <Eickmeyer> Then I'd suggest writing a KCM to take care of disabling/enabling systemd services, unless something exists, because that switch you're talking about is not designed to enable or disable a systemd service like unattended-upgrades.
[20:12] <clivejo> and why it was suddenly switched on by default this close to release
[20:12] <Eickmeyer> That I couldn't tell you. There's a good chance the upstream Plasma code changed and the key changed in the defaults to look for something and the key in your user settings no longer matched that key. I've seen that happen before.
[20:13] <Eickmeyer> System Settings, contrary to its name, mostly controls user-level settings.
[20:14] <Eickmeyer> (unless it asks for a password)