[00:00] Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Cool. [00:00] (no relation) [00:00] [matrix] So... probably preparing Wayland would be best done sooner rather than later. [00:00] https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/issues/10#issuecomment-1759317897 [00:00] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Issue 10 in lxqt/lxqt "Wayland support" [Open] [00:00] Isn't LWQt the Wayland version? [00:00] I'm NACK on landing it before the LTS. After the LTS, go full ham. [00:00] Eickmeyer: potato potato :) [00:01] 🤣 [00:01] I don't think Tsujan plans to proceed with renaming things. [00:01] [matrix] Simon Quigley: For default, sure, but wouldn't having it as an *option* would at least be handy? [00:01] [matrix] Just something the user could try out and if it was awful they could go do something else. [00:01] [matrix] We could even do it as a separate package like Kubuntu did with their Wayland session (and probably still does) [00:02] I mean, we certainly could. I just don't want the bug reports :) [00:03] [matrix] Hah, I actually thought about labwc for it! [00:03] [matrix] The fact that LXQt is starting to lean toward it is promising. I thought Wayfire was probably a bit overkill. [00:03] "OMGWTFBBQ!!!1111111 my buggy obsolete Wayland session released as a tech preview on the LTS that hasn't been updated in 2 years is broken!!!!!" I can see it now [00:03] [matrix] And I think labwc is already in Ubuntu [00:03] I'd be all-for a PPA tho [00:03] 🐛🐛🐛🐛 [00:03] [matrix] PPA sounds like a very good idea. [00:03] @arraybolt3: Whatever works, has good theming support, and doesn't regress user functionality, I'm all for :) [00:04] [matrix] +1 [00:04] PPA seems reasonable to me. [00:05] labwc carries on the OpenBox config model so it might not be too bad to port. [00:05] We really need the panel to work though. That seems like the biggest challenge right now. [00:06] [matrix] I guess that's probably where I'll start trying to work on things then. We've got several years left of X.org, but once RHEL 9 goes the way of the dinosaurs, it looks like X goes with it possibly. [00:06] The time is closing in [00:08] [matrix] I should have said, *mostly* abandoned upstream - I don't think Red Hat is the *only* maintainer, just the primary one. [00:08] [matrix] but anyway [00:09] I've heard (privately, so don't quote me) that Red Hat has been looking to deprecate virt-manager in favor of cockpit, but hasn't pulled the plug yet for whatever reason. [00:09] So, if you have an official announcement, let's get a ref to that before going too ham :) [00:09] [matrix] NOOOOOOOO [00:09] tsimonq2: pardon the iterruption, but did you email that patch? [00:09] Eickmeyer: Working on testing it, also no worries, you don't need to apologize :) [00:10] Ok, cool. [00:10] * Eickmeyer will no longer apologize for anything. 😁 [00:10] * lubot [matrix] tosses Eickmeyer into a nearby pit of golden retriever puppies [00:10] Eickmeyer: How the heck do I start this thing again? [00:10] what about apologizing in the first place? shouldn't you be sorry for that? [00:11] wxl: ^^^ XDDDDD [00:11] Hey wxl! [00:11] @arraybolt3: My son would call that puppy paradise. [00:11] oh hai [00:11] wxl !!!! [00:11] [matrix] wxl: o/ [00:11] tsimonq2: If it's installed, it starts automatically with Plasma. [00:11] [matrix] y'all are on IRC, what am I doing on Matrix?! [00:11] the gang's all here apparently [00:11] Release day fun [00:11] wxl: Still coming to Riga? [00:11] o/ [00:11] wxl: Sorry for being sorry? Never. [00:12] [matrix] is this better? [00:12] Oh, NOW he gets out the IRC client. [00:12] XD [00:12] lol [00:12] HAHAHAHAHA [00:12] Ships passing. [00:12] tsimonq2: hoping to. still working on it. :. [00:12] Eickmeyer: Restarting my session does nothing :P what's your test process? [00:12] wxl: Do you have flights booked? [00:13] ummmmmmm [00:13] tsimonq2, Eickmeyer: What's being tested? [00:13] I missed the whole start of this convo [00:13] arraybolt3_wc: plasma-distro-release-notifier [00:13] ohhhhh, nice [00:13] wxl: you better get to figuring that out XDD [00:13] tsimonq2: You actually have to change the dates in the system. [00:14] tsimonq2: i know. it's been kind of hectic here in rl. [00:15] * Eickmeyer ponders if it's in the spirit of the CoC to drive 6 hours round-trip to kidnap wxl... [00:15] Eickmeyer: Right but to what :) does it only notify so far out from EOL? I enabled Prompt=regular so it'll pick up Lunar/Mantic. [00:15] wxl: Happens. Keep me posted :) [00:16] Eickmeyer: something something "leaders sometimes take disagreeable action to further the project" XD [00:16] tsimonq2: Exactly. [00:16] * arraybolt3_wc quietly dials 911 to report Eickmeyer [00:17] tsimonq2: If you're on Lunar put it at sometime mid-January, and it'll start notifying of EOL. [00:17] tsimonq2, lunar/mantic isn't open; https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release doesn't yet mention 23.10/mantic as release so far is ISO for new installs. not upgrades [00:17] Eickmeyer: ack :) note my opinion that it's stupid to do that these days :P [00:17] arraybolt3_wc: Snitches get stitches XD [00:17] to notify of EOL? [00:17] guiverc: Thanks for the info :) [00:18] I've seen a lot of people asking "why won't my machine upgrade?" and it's because they're unintentionally using an EOL release. [00:18] arraybolt3_wc: Nah, to wait until a month before EOL to even notify [00:18] oh [00:18] * kc2bez cuts arraybolt3_wc 's phone line [00:18] arraybolt3_wc: Yep. That's what we're testing, a new way. Right now it just pulls from the git branch to get the date. [00:18] * has quit (K-Lined) [00:18] 🤣 [00:18] Oops [00:18] s/K-Lined/Phone-Lined/ [00:19] ^ [00:20] tsimonq2: shouldn't that be Prompt=normal ? [00:21] kc2bez: yeah that :) [00:21] Gotcha [00:21] arraybolt3_wc: plasma-distro-release-notifier literally pulls this file to know the EOL dates: https://git.launchpad.net/plasma-distro-release-notifier/plain/eol.json?h=eol [00:21] Eickmeyer: Still no popup, where are the logs? [00:21] We're trying to get it to use distro-info-data instead. [00:22] tsimonq2: That I couldn't tell you. It only ever used online sources, even in the upstream neon version. [00:23] tsimonq2: Did you install it to a virtual machine or are you just running the live session? [00:23] OH. Live session. That makes sense. [00:23] Yep. 💀 [00:23] gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd I forgot how slow Ubiquity was [00:24] Kubunu or Ubuntu Studio? [00:24] Kubuntu, that's the ISO I had locally [00:24] Actually, jammy-daily if that makes any difference. [00:25] Ah. Yeah, the Qt version is full of so much technical debt it's not even funny. Nobody has touched that code in more than half a decade. [00:25] Bugs get raised and tagged with "rls-xx-incoming" and Foundations says, "yeah, no." [00:26] With Cala I can literally just spam the Next button until the partition page and it's like... less than half a second [00:26] I do that and Cala crashes for some reason. [00:27] I've also had people yell at me about the first page taking forever to come up. [00:27] It checks all the modules in the background [00:27] 90% of the time, in that case, they didn't verify their .iso image. [00:28] Eickmeyer: They don't maintain Qt; *Flutter* is "Flutter is a truly cross-platform tool and is open source. If the Linux ecosystem at large picks this up there is a tremendous opportunity for massive ecosystem expansion" [00:28] They believe in what I would consider to be, almost, its direct competitor [00:28] *shrug* this too shall pass [00:28] 🤔 [00:29] https://ubuntu.com/blog/flutter-and-ubuntu-so-far [00:29] Qt actually works :-/ [00:29] Last I looked at Flutter and Dart I was like "...yeah no" [00:30] I talked with a freelance buddy of mine, he told me that it's amazing for mobile apps, a little more janky on desktop. Take that with a grain of salt. [00:33] The flutter installer isn't an installer. Subiquity is the installer. The flutter installer is merely a gui wrapper telling subiquity what to do. [00:34] The desktop team is making it easy for flavors to maintain: we just pick the bits we want on top of it and the dependencies are handled for us. [00:34] I mean, technically, the Qt frontend isn't an installer either. [00:34] Ubiquity uses random debian-installer components, actually :P [00:35] If you're talking about ubiquity, sure, but the technical debt there is enormous. [00:35] So we start over :) [00:35] Not only would one have to maintain the GUI, but the underlying components too. [00:36] Because Canonical is sunsetting ubiquity. They've already said that by 24.04's release, goodbye Ubiquity. They don't want to maintain it for another LTS. [00:37] It'll be pushed to universe. If flavors want it, they can have it, but that means maintaining it too. [00:37] Looks like it's my turn to drive. Hi from west Nebraska. [00:37] Eickmeyer: Want my untested patch now? [00:37] tsimonq2: heh, I'll look at it. [00:37] cool [00:37] Something web based like Redhat 🚪🏃 [00:38] Eickmeyer: Confirm you got it? [00:38] kc2bez: HA! You want to know the complaints I've seen with Anaconda's hub-and-spoke approach? [00:38] kc2bez: hah [00:38] XD [00:38] tsimonq2: Nope. [00:39] Telegram it is [00:39] Licensed the same as the program / just add an entry at the top of the file for me if it goes upstream :) [00:40] (Which it should, honestly) [00:41] They won't, they have different EOL dates. [00:41] It's Neon. [00:43] I'll take this patch (btw, ew 🤮 no comments in code?) and push it to a PPA and see what happens when installed in a VM. [00:43] tsimonq2: ^ [00:45] tsimonq2: Just got your email. 💀 😆 [00:46] I've never seen electrons move so slow. [00:52] [telegram] Eickmeyer: I could 4 comments hah [00:52] [telegram] *count [00:52] [telegram] Let me know how it tests [00:53] [telegram] I mean, it compiles, so it can't be that bad XD [00:54] [telegram] Eickmeyer: Also, the QNetworkReply header can be removed if it's not used anywhere else in the code [00:55] Probably. I'll dig. [00:55] [telegram] Anyway, even if it doesn't work, that gives you a start :) remember to add the hard dep on distro-info-data [00:56] Of course. [00:57] [telegram] Also, I hate the explicit declarations of QChar and QString in function parameters, and in my isolated testing script it didn't require that. If you find a way to remove those and clean up the code, even if it's just standardizing those types in some way, go for it [01:06] [telegram] @tsimonq2 https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/pdrn (read the description) [01:20] [telegram] @tsimonq2 Did you apply the other patches prior to making this patch? [03:49] [telegram] This was the first item in the series file (re @Eickmeyer: @tsimonq2 Did you apply the other patches prior to making this patch?) [03:49] [telegram] I replaced your existing number one patch with this patch [03:49] [telegram] I apologize for any confusion [17:09] [telegram] @tsimonq2 maybe what, if anything, we publish for minimums should be suggestions or recommendations rather than actual technical requirements. 🤔 [17:10] [telegram] It is something that gets asked somewhat frequently. [17:14] [telegram] Hmm... does any other flavor publish such recommendations? [17:15] [telegram] I wouldn't be opposed, but we *are* the lightest flavor [17:20] [telegram] I will do some research and give a better proposal. I feel like I have seen others with minimums posted but maybe I am mistaken. [17:21] [telegram] We are lighter than the others for sure. [17:22] Thanks Dan :) [17:22] [telegram] Sure thing [17:22] On *Monday*, when everyone is back from their mandatory vacation, I could use some help double checking testing results for bug 2039093 [17:22] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2039093 in lxqt-sudo (Ubuntu Mantic) "[SRU] Add -E support to lxqt-sudo" [Medium, Fix Committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2039093 [17:26] tsimonq2: And of course we can coordinate here. *bonks simon* [17:28] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: rejected lubuntu-update-notifier [source] (mantic-proposed) [0.6.1] [17:29] tsimonq2: Looks like you have more pressing matters. ^ [17:30] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: rejected lubuntu-update-notifier [source] (lunar-proposed) [0.6.0~23.04.1] [18:01] [telegram] That moment when you've been using your desktop machine as your main machine for the past 18 months and you realize you've never had to run pristine-tar on it. 💀 [18:05] A day spent away from git-buildpackage is a good day in at least one way! [18:06] [telegram] did y'all see this? https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/announcement-ubuntu-desktop-23-10-release-image-is-being-updated-to-resolve-a-malicious-translation-incident/39365?_ga=2.105716099.1838008497.1697195387-1302408282.1697195387 [18:06] [telegram] and were we affected [18:06] [telegram] No, Lubuntu is *not* affected. It only affects those that are using the new flutter/subiquity installer. [18:07] [telegram] nice [18:07] [telegram] just making sure [18:07] [telegram] So, only Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Budgie. [18:07] whoa what? [18:07] [telegram] i'm playing "chase the backlogs" today [18:07] oh grief [18:07] [telegram] thanks Erich [18:08] [telegram] BO [18:08] [telegram] er... NP [18:08] [telegram] arraybolt3: yup [18:08] [telegram] *fingers are on the right characters now* [18:08] [telegram] that was my reaction too. [18:09] For a second I thought Canonical had fallen prey to a cyberattack. [18:09] That's still sad and a mess, but at least it's not as bad as what it looked like at first. [18:09] Nah. It was just a bad actor on the translations team for ubuntu-desktop-installer on github. [18:10] They've since been banned. [18:10] :+1: [18:11] that moment you realize you're using an alternate nick since you have a different IRC client using your main nick and that you've not been logged in this whole time [18:12] [telegram] sounds like someone needs kicked from the project. *whistles nonchalantly for reasons* [18:12] *watches teward001 collapse into his own event horizon* [18:12] [telegram] and not arraybolt for irc isues [18:12] [telegram] but the malicious one. [18:12] oh [18:12] I thought it was a joke [18:12] [telegram] nope [18:13] [telegram] cell phone lag is bad today mmhmm [18:13] I assume whoever it was already has been kicked from everything Canonical-related. [18:13] ah [18:13] [telegram] The new Budgie image is up for testing [18:13] I mean, considering they got banned, and they were a volunteer translator, I would assumed they got kicked from the project. [18:13] [telegram] Forwarded from fossfreedom: Everyone ... the fixed 23.10 ubuntu budgie iso is now up. So if you have some time please do help to verify all is OK. http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/449/builds/288483/testcases TIA [18:13] teward001: Well I see your problem. You're using Telegram. Just use an Android IRC Client. [18:13] I'll test that. [18:14] I would but I have other fishes to fry, aka tsimonq2's sus plasma-distro-release-notifier patch. [18:14] It's a smelly fish, too. [18:15] tbf I don't speak Ukrainian so maybe I'm not the best one to do the testing... [18:15] arraybolt3_wc: Google Goggles. [18:15] and I don't know how to type it either so Google Translate will be difficult to use [18:15] Oh, no phone. [18:15] [telegram] Probably doesn't hurt to do some smoke testing in the languages you know. [18:16] That's a set of exactly one :P [18:16] Smoke testing is always good. [18:16] (Tried to learn Spanish, failed, tried to learn Italian, failed, tried to learn Greek, failed, tried to learn Hebrew, I didn't fail quite as badly there but still didn't pull it off) [18:16] And I am always up for limited Spanish and German testing when I'm feeling adventurous. [18:16] [telegram] Hey, you have me bested. I struggle with this one sometimes. [18:16] Tried to learn C# and that went smoothly :P [18:17] I mean... I doubt C# is a selectable language in the installer. :P [18:17] If I can run Firefox and the installer at the same time I can probably manage to get by. [18:17] Eickmeyer: Well it ought to be! [18:17] XD [18:17] Next -> Subiquity.AdvancePage() [18:17] 🤣 [18:18] Welcome -> Console.WriteLine("Heya!") [18:18] might be more fun in C though. [18:18] Next -> sub_adv_pg() [18:18] Then you get to decipher names like crazy :D [18:19] Eickmeyer: Hey, you know what? I don't have a phone, but I have a Chromebook tablet with Google Play support and a camera! [18:20] Google Goggles is an option!@ [18:20] s/@// [18:20] \o/ [18:20] * arraybolt3_wc installs the app [18:20] * Eickmeyer needs to get that for the Frankfurt Airport just in case he doesn't understand something [18:21] Here's hoping Google TrytoTranslate can handle Ukranian with its camera feature [18:26] [telegram] https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/2214 [18:26] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Issue 2214 in calamares/calamares "ProcessJob and contextualprocess operate differently" [Open] [18:26] [telegram] What's that? 💀 (re @Eickmeyer: That moment when you've been using your desktop machine as your main machine for the past 18 months and you realize you've never had to run pristine-tar on it. 💀) [18:26] [telegram] @Eickmeyer At some point, I'll take a look at the logs for this puppy to try and find the segfault :) for now, yeah, I'll attend to this [18:27] [telegram] I'm running on very little sleep and we're almost to the Grand Canyon. Hopefully we can check in right at 1 so I can crash/burn [18:28] sigh, it looks like Google's decision to move the Android runtime from a container to a VM may have killed camera support for Android apps. [18:28] Translate is just telling me "Lens not available" when I try to switch to Camera mode. [18:28] oh, maybe I'm just missing a component [18:29] [telegram] It's segfaulting? Damn. (re @tsimonq2: @Eickmeyer At some point, I'll take a look at the logs for this puppy to try and find the segfault :) for now, yeah, I'll attend to this) [18:29] Good grief. Missing software dependencies on Android of all things. [18:29] You have to install Google Lens to get Google Translate's camera feature to work. [18:29] [telegram] Well, I found another problem. I forgot to update some strings in some patches, so there's another reason to SRU altogether. [18:29] I thought Android was like the one Linux distro that *didn't* have dependency problems. [18:30] [telegram] s/some patches/a patch/ [18:32] [telegram] @Eickmeyer Possibly, don't know yet, can't find the logs or enablement settings [18:33] And Google Lens in turn has a software dependency on an app just called "Google" which isn't Chromebook-compatible. So now I'm installing a *third* app that might give me the functionality I need :P [18:33] [telegram] There's probably KDE docs but I'm honestly a bit tired to go through that :) [18:33] [telegram] arraybolt3_wc: Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooof. [18:33] I'm starting to lose hope that this is possible. [18:34] [telegram] Understandable. Had no idea you were headed to Arizona. (re @tsimonq2: There's probably KDE docs but I'm honestly a bit tired to go through that :)) [18:34] But anyway, worst fear confirmed, Google Play is the Android equivalent of dpkg (not apt). [18:35] there, looks like Google Go is going to work :D [18:36] yep, works [18:37] \o/ [19:05] [telegram] https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/f1c9e3c1/file_9974.jpg [19:11] tsimonq2: Wow, pretty! [19:11] That's where you're at now? [19:16] [telegram] @tsimonq2 that looks nice [20:09] Sigh, serious problems with the Budgie ISO. [20:09] No installer pops up upon bootup. [20:09] And the installer app in the menu is "Install RELEASE" [20:09] Not "Install Ubuntu Budgie", or "Install Ubuntu 23.10", or "Install Ubuntu Mantic", or anything. [20:21] oof, it's also very difficult to finish the last screen of the installer when your keyboard is stuck in Ukranian... [20:21] you can't use a non-ASCII computer name or username it appears, and typing ASCII text is a bit tricky like this [20:24] sheesh, took me that long to find the keyboard layout settings [20:24] So... Subiquity is not condusive to installing in languages that aren't English-like. Now we know. [20:24] Also the Ubuntu Budgie slideshow is simply absent. [20:25] Just a plain white screen. [20:25] I'll do another smoke test in English in the mean time, but this is broken. [20:29] [telegram] Make sure to log your tests arraybolt3_wc [20:29] Will do [20:30] GNOME Boxes glitched and turned my UEFI VM into a BIOS VM upon reboot (?!) so I still haven't actually gotten the new install to boot :P [20:33] [telegram] ran 2 tests on budgie 1 barebone and 1 VM no errors.. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) GNOME Boxes glitched and turned my UEFI VM into a BIOS VM upon reboot (?!) so I still haven't actually gotten the new install to boot :P) [20:33] Leokolb: Did the slideshow appear as a plain white background for you? [20:34] If not, it's probably an issue unique to installing in Ukranian. [20:34] [telegram] no - there is discussion on Ubuntu Testers channel [21:14] [telegram] Been there. It's pretty great. (re @tsimonq2: ) [21:21] [telegram] In fact, grand you might say. [21:49] [telegram] arraybolt3_wc: Are you planning on coming back full swing to development soon or are you going the gradual route? [21:50] tsimonq2: That depends on how things go, but if things go according to plan, full-swing. [21:51] I probably should get hooked back into the IRC channels and mailing lists. [21:51] (I'm in some of them but not many.) [21:52] [telegram] @teward001 @kc2bez wxl arraybolt3wc: I suggest we all meet sometime in the next week to carefully plan what gets greenlit for LTS, what doesn't, what we need to finish before then, and who does it. Pure development/technical meeting to hash out technical stuff, plus I want to get everyone up to speed with Recent Happenings [21:52] [telegram] Let me suggest... hear me out... Thursday at 2100 UTC === arraybolt3_wc is now known as arraybolt3 [21:52] [telegram] XD [21:53] unheard of [21:53] [telegram] Sounds like a decent !standup. [21:53] Sounds like it might work. [21:53] [telegram] I love how we did two different Doodle polls like a year apart and both times that won [21:53] I'll definitely need to be brought up-to-speed since I missed ~everything that happened in the last six months. [21:54] Plus this is going to be my first LTS cycle [21:57] One thing I would *like* if we could make happen (no clue if it's possible) is to make the unofficial backports-enabled ISO. Lots of people liked Backports, and it would provide a sort-of KDE Neon experience with Lubuntu (rolling LXQt updates, stable for everything else). [21:57] We discussed that during Kinetic and almost did it, but then didn't. [21:59] [telegram] @tsimonq2 So... there's no way to test it using Plasma's Date/time setting. There's an open bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447364 [21:59] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- KDE bug 447364 in systemsettings "Unable to set current time manually" [Normal, Reopened] [22:01] [telegram] That's ok. timedatectl is a thing. [22:02] [telegram] @tsimonq2 This I will say though: it might be failing because Mantic isn't opened for upgrades yet, so i.e. Lunar won't report EOL. [22:02] [telegram] (no upgrade path) [22:03] [telegram] With that in mind, retest on Monday when it *might* open for upgrades. === arraybolt3 is now known as Guest7876 [23:17] [telegram] This is true (re @Eickmeyer: That's ok. timedatectl is a thing.) [23:18] [telegram] I've been testing on Jammy, with an upgrade to Lunar (re @Eickmeyer: @tsimonq2 This I will say though: it might be failing because Mantic isn't opened for upgrades yet, so i.e. Lunar won't report EOL.) [23:18] [telegram] so it does show as upgradable [23:18] [telegram] Ahhhhh. Didn't think to try that. [23:18] [telegram] I set the time to 2024-01-24T00:00:00 and that didn't work [23:18]