[00:34] <oerheks> good review, https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/14/ubuntu_2310_released/
[00:34] <oerheks> incl the iso issues, also 'new Subiquity installer doesn't support screenreaders fully as yet, so visually impaired users should opt for the version with the legacy installer for now.'
[00:45] <Bashing-om>  oerheks: As you endorse ^ -- added to the UWN list: https://ubottu.com/y/uwnprep . 
[00:45] <oerheks> yay!
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:03] <elias_a> Eickmeyer: Which factor gives you the powet to say "Any more speculation beyond that will not be done here."?
[07:03] <elias_a> ...power - not powet
[07:05] <ravage> His keyboard 
[07:06] <elias_a> My point: as a person who is occationally targeted by russian wannabe youngsters, I'd like to know how exactly Canonical is addressing this issue because it is relevant from my point of view living next to russia.
[07:06] <oerheks> elias_a, as there is no need to speculate how and when. Eickmeyer is an ubuntu member though
[07:07] <oerheks> Canonical was not hacked.
[07:37] <elias_a> oerheks: That is not relevant. A process that is designed and run by Canonical was.
[07:38] <oerheks> Nope, 3rd party translators
[07:39] <elias_a> oerheks: Are you a member of some translation team?
[07:42] <elias_a> oerheks: I am, you see. And as I have been coordinating the translation teams of various FLOSS projects in Finland years back, I know very well how the processes are designed.
[07:42] <oerheks> I read is was related to  "Weblate"
[07:43] <elias_a> The key issue here is: if there is no quality control which would stop this kind of malicious activity, we have a problem.
[07:43] <oerheks> Early testers are the best control sofar?
[07:43] <elias_a> oerheks: This is not due to weblate. This is due to nonexistent quality assurance.
[07:46] <elias_a> Do we know whether the malicious translation was available for early testers or has someone uploaded the translations between the early testing and release version?
[07:47] <oerheks> We don't, so it made it to the final iso?
[09:24] <elias_a> oerheks: I don't follow your logic. Could you elaborate?
[09:26] <JanC> I suppose translation teams & the distro/ISO developers will have to discuss this first, to see what exactly went wrong & what can be improved around that
[10:33] <elias_a> In all of the translation teams I've been involved there is a person, sort of (voluntary) country manager who does the final check for translations. I have been mostly translating sw of interest to me like Thunderbird, Musescore and many other apps that are packaged into Ubuntu as well. In all of these the process is the same: translated text strings simply do not go to production without the 
[10:33] <elias_a> acceptance of the main translator or "country manager" of that specific language. 
[10:33] <elias_a> I do not know how the governance of translation process of Ubuntu is designed but apparently there is something flawed at the moment.
[11:40] <lotuspsychje> !no 23.10 is <reply> Ubuntu 23.10 (Mantic Minotaur) is the 39th release of Ubuntu and the current latest release – Download at https://ubuntu.com/download :: Release notes at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/mantic-minotaur-release-notes/35534
[11:44] <tomreyn> ocmpared to 23.04, did you s/regular/latest/ on purpose?
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: assuming 23.04 needs a re-edit too, but not yet eol right?
[11:51]  * tomreyn calculates 4+9-12 and ends up at 2024-01
[11:52] <tomreyn> mod 12, i should have said
[11:53] <tomreyn> i'll leave the editing to someone else this time, though
[11:53] <lotuspsychje> np
[15:44] <Eickmeyer> elias_a: What gives me the power? It's a divisive discussion that doesn't belong in a room for "quality disucussions" (see topic).
[15:44] <Eickmeyer> So, no more.
[15:47] <elias_a> Eickmeyer: I disagree strongly. If the happened event is not a quality issue, I do not know what would be.
[15:53] <elias_a> Or have I understood the topic in a wrong way? I read it saying "discussion about quality issues". Should it perhaps be read "quality discussions" where quality refers to something that has to do with subjective values?
[15:55] <elias_a> I am serious about this: if this is not considered as a quality issue, I will end all my support to Ubuntu community and also write publicly why I am doing so.
[15:56] <ravage> that escalated quickly
[15:57] <ravage> i dont think threats will get you far. but good luck
[15:58] <elias_a> ravage: I don't care. I just won't support immoral activities.
[15:58] <ravage> ok then
[15:59] <ravage> ( insert crickets chirp here )
[16:00] <elias_a> ravage: crickets chirp is probably inaudible for those who don't see that what happened has to do with an ongoing war in Europe. Non-europeans ignoring it as a threat and quality issue is appalling.
[16:01] <ravage> please take talk about politics somewhere else. thank you
[16:02] <JanC> like I said before: let's wait until the people in charge of this (translation team & the team that make the ISOs) have discussed it
[16:02] <elias_a> No I won't because that is exactly why we need better quality control. 
[16:02] <JanC> elias_a: some software has thousands of lines to translate, so with also thousands of applications, the "country manager" can't read every line
[16:03] <elias_a> JanC: Yes he/she can because you only read diffs. Been there, done that.
[23:03] <jeremy31> leftyfb: I am not sure if this was ever fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rtl8812au/+bug/1705820
[23:03] -ubottu:#ubuntu-discuss- Launchpad bug 1705820 in rtl8812au (Ubuntu) "Wrong build when kernel upgrade (about kernel header path)" [High, Confirmed]
 It's officially released for clean installs, not for upgrades yet.
[23:45] <gry> in #ubuntu
[23:45] <gry> what is this? when does it become out for upgrades
[23:45] <Eickmeyer> gry: Usually a day to a week later.
[23:45] <gry> just wondering so that i can answer questions in #ubuntu correctly if someone asks; ive never heard of such difference
[23:45] <gry> ah i see
[23:45] <Eickmeyer> There's some upgrade stuff that needs to be ironed out first.
[23:45] <gry> thank you
[23:45] <gry> why doesn't it get ironed out before release?
[23:46] <Eickmeyer> This comes up every six months. Because ubuntu-release-upgrader operates outside of the release pocket and operates in the update pocket of the release you're upgrading to, so it needs something to be stabilized in the release pocket first.
[23:47] <Eickmeyer> s/something/everything
[23:49] <Eickmeyer> For LTS releases, it actually takes until the .1 release, which occurs in August of that year.