[02:17] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:40] <guiverc> skeleton/template at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/uwn-skeleton-template/39501   (it'll contain issues no doubt, but we can work/edit them away)
[05:42] <guiverc> oops, sorry that was intended for a different room
[05:45] <guiverc> the instructions are mostly unchanged from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/IssueTemplate; some where altered (slightly)..   with the instructions becoming visible when you EDIT & look at code etc.
[05:55] <guiverc> Doh !!!!!    wrong room again !
[05:56]  * guiverc reluctantly reaches for his glasses
[16:54] <lotuspsychje> !no 23.10 is <reply> Ubuntu 23.10 (Mantic Minotaur) is the 39th release of Ubuntu and the current latest release – Download at https://ubuntu.com/download :: Release notes at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/mantic-minotaur-release-notes/35534
[16:57] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: updated, thank you
[16:58] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: welcome, 23.04 needs a little edito too, but i dont know howto put in words, regular/current?
[16:58] <hggdh> non-LTS?
[16:58] <lotuspsychje> !23.04
[16:59] <lotuspsychje> its not the current anymore, but not yet eol
[17:00] <hggdh> !22.10
[17:00] <hggdh> what about following this one?
[17:01] <lotuspsychje> well we cant use 'was' yet and not eol
[17:01] <hggdh> Ubuntu 22.10 (Kinetic Kudu) was the 37th release of Ubuntu, support ends on January, 2024. See !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2023-July/000293.html
[17:02] <hggdh> actually we can -- it, indeed, was the 37th release, it is just not yet dead
[17:02] <lotuspsychje> Ubuntu 23.04 (Lunar Lobster) was the 38th release of Ubuntu - 
[17:03] <hggdh> ugh. Copy & Paste woes...
[17:03] <lotuspsychje> heh
[17:05] <hggdh> updated. I do not mind, at all, validation on the mess I usually do...
[17:06] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: it has the 22.10 paste on it
[17:07] <hggdh> yep. Just corrected it
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[17:07] <hggdh> thank you for your patience
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> welcome
[17:08] <lotuspsychje> is that a public channel you guys edit on hggdh ?
[17:09] <lotuspsychje> or just from -ops
[17:10] <hggdh> for me, nowadays, from -ops. My permissions allow me to edit factoids there (or used to, and this is what I remember)
[17:10] <hggdh> and... corrected AGAIN
[17:11] <hggdh> your ! entries are forwarded to -ops, and we see them there
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> kk tnx
[17:12] <lotuspsychje> i did a lot of edits back on freenode with dax's help, too long ago to recall what he did
[17:20] <hggdh> well, still wrong
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> whats that hggdh 
[17:23] <hggdh> the release notes were wrong
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> oh
[17:24] <hggdh> also changed 'was' to 'is' given the doubts (mine)
[17:25] <hggdh> !23.10
[17:25] <lotuspsychje> non lts gives a lot of work :p
[17:25] <hggdh> heh. *My* edits are a lot of work
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> you mixed up mantic and lunar hggdh 
[17:53] <TheWebFox> actually, I think I only started using flatpak cause I came from Arch where Android Studio didn't work, but it turns out Android Studio, Discord, Firefox even Spotify are all on snap
[17:53] <hggdh> ugh!
[17:53] <TheWebFox> cbreak, actually, I think I only started using flatpak cause I came from Arch where Android Studio didn't work, but it turns out Android Studio, Discord, Firefox even Spotify are all on snap
[17:53] <cbreak> https://ubuntu.com/blog/ubuntu-core-an-immutable-linux-desktop ... heh...
[17:54] <cbreak> I have half of that already with Ubuntu on ZFS Root
[17:54] <TheWebFox> so, I think I'm gonna move to snap ... I think I was prejudiced against it, just like I've been prejudiced against LibreOffice cause I was too used to MS Office
[17:54] <TheWebFox> I have no rational reason to be anti-snap\
[17:54] <cbreak> yeah, snap slack and so on is there... but it has problems
[17:54] <cbreak> can't attach documents unless they're in my downloads folder or something similarly silly
[17:54] <TheWebFox> flatpak packages have problems too 
[17:55] <cbreak> I use a bunch of snap packages and some more flatpack, but for firefox, it's bad.
[17:56] <cbreak> they didn't manage to properly tune the isolation to not screw up 1password
[17:56] <cbreak> and other addons that need to communicate with the outside world
[17:56] <TheWebFox> cbreak, I'm never gonna run my main browser in snap or in flatpak 
[17:57] <TheWebFox> I only keep one for sites I don't trust 
[17:57] <lotuspsychje> security wise a browser in a container is a good idea
[17:57] <TheWebFox> I need FIDO2 to work with my Yubikeys, I need add-ons like ExpressVPN & 1Password to work
[17:58] <TheWebFox> lotuspsychje, I can't critique the idea, the idea is good for 99.9% of users
[17:58] <TheWebFox> it's my use-case that is the reason I can't have my main browser sandboxed
[17:58] <lotuspsychje> i also got an addon belgian EID not working on FF snap yet
[17:59] <TheWebFox> oh, don't get me started on the tax office & their obsession with Adobe Reader for PDF
[17:59] <cbreak> lotuspsychje: too bad it makes it unusable
[17:59] <cbreak> I can sort of live with 1password not working right (even though it annoyed me)
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> temp workaround with chrome to solve it on my side
[17:59] <cbreak> but for work, we have some really braindead plugins that are required, like aspera for file transfer, or some weird vpn thing
[18:00] <lotuspsychje> bug #1741074
[18:00] -ubottu:#ubuntu-discuss- Bug 1741074 in firefox (Ubuntu) "[snap] chrome-gnome-shell extension fails to detect native host connector" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1741074
[18:00] <TheWebFox> Google Chrome is my main cause it works flawlessly with my Z Fold 5
[18:00] <cbreak> so what I did there was to make an lxc container with proper ppa firefox :)
[18:00] <TheWebFox> and my phone, Chrome Mobile is just faster than Firefox mobile
[18:00] <TheWebFox> I'm sorry, it just is the way it is
[18:00] <TheWebFox> and I like to send tabs to my phone
[18:01] <cbreak> sending tabs around works too with ff
[18:01] <TheWebFox> yeah, but FF on Android runs slower
[18:01] <TheWebFox> it's less "snappy"
[18:01] <TheWebFox> LOL
[18:01] <cbreak> haven't noticed that... (not that I tried chrome. I don't want to use google if I can avoid it...)
[18:02] <cbreak> they seem to intentionally screw up even basic things, like add blocking, or tracking blocking
[18:02] <cbreak> .. unsurprisingly :)
[18:02] <TheWebFox> meh, I don't use ad blocker, it slows browser down 
[18:03] <TheWebFox> I got Youtube Premium, I don't go to sites with ads
[18:03] <TheWebFox> I mean, you really don't need ad blocker if you don't go to shady stuff
[18:03] <Eickmeyer> cbreak: > can't attach documents unless they're in my downloads folder or something similarly silly >> simply "sudo snap connect slack:removable-media" will fix that. Really, any time you need to access something the file chooser won't let you in a snap, that's usually the culpret.
[18:03] <Eickmeyer> Means the snapper (the dev) didn't make that a default.
[18:04] <TheWebFox> usually, for like browsers there isn't a reason to allow by default access outside Downloads
[18:06] <cbreak> TheWebFox: add blockers speed websites up in my experience :)
[18:06] <cbreak> no adds to load
[18:06] <cbreak> Eickmeyer: removable media?
[18:06] <cbreak> my media is not removable though
[18:07] <cbreak> wonder what that implies
[18:13] <Eickmeyer> cbreak: I don't know why, it just works.
[18:14] <Eickmeyer> Typically it mostly affects people with separate /home partitions or drives, so snaps might assume they're on removable media. idk.
[18:16] <cbreak> I have separate /data zfs datasets and a bunch of other things
[18:17] <cbreak> well, thanks for the info though, I'll try it next time I suffer under snap :)
[18:18] <TheWebFox> there done, I uninstalled flatpak, purged all the .flatpak caches and configs
[18:19] <TheWebFox> and moved everything to snap
[18:19] <Eickmeyer> TheWebFox: I have both snaps and flatpaks, just depending on the application and need.
[18:19] <TheWebFox> I don't need 2 container backends running, for just Spotify, Discord & Android Studio
[18:20] <TheWebFox> and now I have 100% support in #ubuntu 
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> Ah, fair enough. Those are all 3 supported by their respective devs in snapcraft.
[18:20] <TheWebFox> Eickmeyer, yeah, I only was on flatpak cause I came from arch where there is no snap
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> Ah, that makes sense.
[18:21] <TheWebFox> I gave arch up after I had pulseaudio segfault when connecting my bluetooth headphones
[18:21] <TheWebFox> (it wasn't misconfig, software was too new and had bugs in it)
[18:21] <TheWebFox> (Arch is unusable, too bleeding edge)
[18:22] <TheWebFox> haven't used it since, something went wrong in pulseaudio-module-bluetooth and it caused the whole thing to crash LOL
[18:22] <TheWebFox> and other issues like that, something always goes wrong on arch 
[18:23] <cbreak> I doubt the bloat from packages come from the container backend :)
[18:23] <cbreak> it comes from having multiple copies of every system lib in memory
[18:23] <cbreak> and on disk
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> The newest PipeWire's Bluetooth support is amazing.
[18:23] <cbreak> and how relevant that overhead is nowadays... who knows
[18:25] <TheWebFox> Eickmeyer, yeah, pipewire is better
[18:25] <TheWebFox> anyway, I like Ubuntu it's like a middle road, not too old like Debian stable
[18:25] <TheWebFox> and not too new like Arch or the worse Arch (Tumbleweed)
[18:26] <TheWebFox> don't get me started on Tumbleweed, I tried it once, couldn't get the installer to start, due to some error in some python script (and yes, I checked the hash)
[18:29] <cbreak> don't forget the best thing about ubuntu: It comes with ZFS Kernel module :)
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> I used Tumbleweed 6 years ago until I left that to rescue Ubuntu Studio.
[18:30] <TheWebFox> I tried it the first month when it released
[18:30] <TheWebFox> I think I was too early adopter
[18:30] <TheWebFox> LOL
[18:30] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. Haven't turned back from Ubuntu since, except the short stint with both Ubuntu and Fedora.
[18:30] <TheWebFox> oh, I tried Fedora, but rpm 
[18:30] <TheWebFox> rpm is a pain
[18:32] <TheWebFox> Eickmeyer, by the way, I used to host an AUR for Arch Linux for my app: FiSSH (Fingerprint identification for SSH), anyway, I need your expertise, should I, set up a ubuntu repo on my own server or just use a PPA?
[18:33] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'm too deeply-entrenched in Ubuntu now, deeply involved in two flavors, one of which I'm the leader the other I'm the technical leader, and mentor another flavor, and advise on audio for everything else.
[18:33] <TheWebFox> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fissh <- I'm thinking of getting this to be installable on ubuntu ... 
[18:33] <Eickmeyer> TheWebFox: Just use a PPA. Free.
[18:34] <Eickmeyer> It's easy if you know how to package.
[18:34] <TheWebFox> yeah, they're both equally easy
[18:34] <TheWebFox> actually you're right PPA is easier for the end-user cause he can add it easier
[18:34] <TheWebFox> he/she 
[18:35] <Eickmeyer> Right. Just make a PPA. And if you want to get even more clever, if it's a single app, make it a sap.
[18:35] <Eickmeyer> *snap
[18:35] <TheWebFox> yeah, and will it then be listed in App Center? 
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, if you want it to.
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> I have https://snapcraft.io/freeshow
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> Not my app, but I maintain the snap.
[18:36] <TheWebFox> it doesn't have any dependencies ... the point is it's a terminal utility
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. There's a lot of terminal utils that are snaps.
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> htop for instance.
[18:37] <TheWebFox> oh I have that, I use that a lot, but I just installed it from apt
[18:38] <Eickmeyer> Yep. Either or, makes no difference there. snaps are easier to maintain because you upload it once and it goes to anyone who has it installed, whereas a PPA has to be uploaded with different version numbers in the changelog for different Ubuntu releases.
[18:39] <TheWebFox> Eickmeyer, yeah, I've done PPAs from Linux mint when I was like 15
[18:39] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, so you understand.
[18:39] <TheWebFox> :-) published my own version of snake in SDL
[18:39] <TheWebFox> "retrosnake 0.1"
[18:39] <Eickmeyer> Ha! Nice
[18:39] <TheWebFox> some day I'm gonna remake it :-D 
[18:42] <TheWebFox> anyway, can a snap open a port in strict confinement?
[18:42] <TheWebFox> or do I have to go with classic for that?
[18:43] <Eickmeyer> I'm not 100% sure on that one. ravage knows more, he has a few snaps (I'm being conservative with "few" XD)
[18:43] <TheWebFox> yeah, you see my app has to listen for a TLS connection on a socket port
[18:43] <TheWebFox> > 1024 (non-root port)
[18:44] <Eickmeyer> I have installed snaps that listen/open ports, so I don't see why not. Take TheLounge for instance.
[18:44] <Eickmeyer> Or even Nextcloud.
[18:44] <TheWebFox> but is it classic / strict 
[18:44] <Eickmeyer> I run both on my server.
[18:44] <TheWebFox> anyway, I'll research it more tomorrow, it's like 10 pm and I have work tomorrow 
[18:45] <TheWebFox> maybe I'll even finish this weekend with a stable build :'D
[18:45] <Eickmeyer> Sounds good. Have a great evening. :)
[18:45] <TheWebFox> (I already have the app written, I just need to package it in snap & test it)