/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2023/10/19/#lubuntu-devel.txt

=== Eickmeyer is now known as Erich
=== Erich is now known as Eickmeyer
arraybolt3What time is the standup again?20:16
tsimonq22100 UTC, so in like 45 minutes.20:16
arraybolt3oh what? I thought 2100 UTC Thursday was Friday in CST.20:16
arraybolt3Well glad I'm not late :D20:17
tsimonq2It's currently Thursday 20:17 UTC ;)20:17
tsimonq2You have it backwards :)20:17
arraybolt3lol20:17
* arraybolt3 enables a companion UTC clock20:18
arraybolt3if my desktop gets much more crowded I'mma have to enable a third panel :P20:23
arraybolt3https://i.imgur.com/Pk2MZ1R.png20:24
wxlarraybolt3: /alias 2utc exec - TZ=UTC date -Rd "$0- `date +%Z`"20:30
wxlat least if you irssi20:30
tsimonq2irssi > all other IRC clients20:31
wxlor if you don't want to do conversions but just see utc time then /alias utc exec - date -u -R20:31
wxlor if you want to convert to local time /alias 2local exec - date -Rd 'TZ="UTC" $0-'20:32
arraybolt3tsimonq2: s/irssi/weechat/20:33
arraybolt3(though I'm using The Lounge right now for reasons)20:33
arraybolt3I can fix that though20:34
arraybolt3_wcthere20:34
arraybolt3_wcah, and now I get to use the nice font I found the other day for my terminal (turns out I'm a fan of Red Hat Mono as a coding and terminal font)20:34
tsimonq2wxl, arraybolt3, @kc2bez, @teward001: ~= 20 minute warning for the development meeting.20:49
lubot[telegram] <kc2bez> 👍20:53
arraybolt3_wc+120:54
arraybolt3_wc1 minute warning?20:59
arraybolt3_wcor is there an extra 10 minutes I wasn't aware of? (don't think so)20:59
tsimonq2#startmeeting Lubuntu Development Meeting, beginning of NN cycle20:59
meetingologyMeeting started at 20:59:32 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology20:59
meetingologyAvailable commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick20:59
tsimonq2wxl, arraybolt3, @kc2bez, @teward001: Make yourself known, I'll start in a few.20:59
kc2bezo/ here21:00
arraybolt3_wco/21:00
* arraybolt3_wc attempts to yank teward out of the mess of Ethernet cables he trapped himself in last night21:00
tsimonq2There's always backlog :)21:02
tsimonq2Hi Lubuntu Developers, let's get started. I have a summary prepared of recent changes to Lubuntu; I'll go through it, give you all an opportunity to comment, and proceed to LTS(+) plans. Here's the summary:21:02
tsimonq2 - LXQt Power Management UX has been addressed. Currently, on every desktop machine for first boot (including VMs), a "No Battery" notification is displayed. This is not good UX. I started a PR here, but would like to get that status notifier taken care of before 24.04: https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt-powermanagement/pull/38221:02
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Pull 382 in lxqt/lxqt-powermanagement "Show a notification when the battery is present, not absent" [Open]21:02
tsimonq2 - Started some SRUs regarding the update notifier and release upgrading. Currently there's no graphical path to doing a release upgrade, so that's fixed. I need to iterate on the patch one more time to take a Pythonic approach to `do-release-upgrade -c`, instead of just checking it. bug 2039093 bug 2038958 - Wrote Netplan support for Calamares before the release, if anyone is looking for a good 21:02
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2039093 in lxqt-sudo (Ubuntu Mantic) "[SRU] Add -E support to lxqt-sudo" [Medium, Fix Committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203909321:02
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2038958 in lubuntu-update-notifier (Ubuntu Mantic) "[SRU] Add support for release upgrading" [Medium, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203895821:02
tsimonq2entry-level Python task, that could use some consolidation (he merged it anyway): https://github.com/calamares/calamares/pull/220921:02
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Pull 2209 in calamares/calamares "Quick vendor patch to add support for Netplan-based configs" [Merged]21:02
tsimonq2 - Filed some upstream issues regarding ProcessJob and contextualprocess, again, a good low-hanging-fruit task: https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/2212 https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/2214 - Helped our KDE friends out in bug 203949221:02
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2039492 in plasma-distro-release-notifier (Ubuntu Mantic) "[SRU] plasma-distro-release-notifier gets EOL data from git.launchpad.net" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203949221:02
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Issue 2212 in calamares/calamares "Add optional env vars for ProcessJob" [Open]21:02
-ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Issue 2214 in calamares/calamares "ProcessJob and contextualprocess operate differently" [Open]21:02
tsimonq2 - Calamares (via a module I wrote) now has a Customize screen, allowing the user to choose Minimal Install/Normal Install, whether they want an upgrade ran while installing, third party software drivers, and the (somewhat controversial) package selection feature. I am making the executive decision to upload this, and I've prepared all necessary policy justification. As usual, if we need to change 21:02
tsimonq2this mid-cycle, #SimonsFault ;) - When NN opens, I have all the necessary bootstrap packages ready, for the archive development tools *and* Lubuntu. Just waiting on a codename.21:02
tsimonq2.21:03
arraybolt3_wcWhy was the package selectoin feature controversial again?21:03
arraybolt3_wcI remember there was something about "feathers that shouldn't be ruffled" but don't remember21:03
tsimonq2The TB doesn't follow their own text in practice: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1apUKR4gtOrfPGCWmtoebaQUhoy-fG8Cyo3VKJyhnpD0/edit21:03
arraybolt3_wcah, right21:03
arraybolt3_wc#DontCare21:04
lubot[telegram] <teward001> dude i was in the rest room after drinking 10 coffees YOU will have to piss too. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> wxl, arraybolt3, @kc2bez, @teward001: Make yourself known, I'll start in a few.)21:04
tsimonq2LMFAO hi21:04
arraybolt3_wcteward: So trapped in Ethernet cables and overcaffinated. Makes sense.21:04
arraybolt3_wc*ducks21:04
kc2bezThat is an impressive start tsimonq221:04
kc2bezReally impressive21:04
tsimonq2Thanks :) I've had too much free time in a car ;)21:05
arraybolt3_wc+121:05
arraybolt3_wcVery excited about the power management notification fix and the minimal install option.21:05
lubot[telegram] <teward001> arraybolt3: you have white-chocolate toilet paper on your shoes there.21:05
lubot[telegram] <teward001> *plays catchup*21:05
tsimonq2I'll wait a bit longer for further comment before I paste my next list ;)21:06
arraybolt3_wcOne thing I would like to know is, for the graphical upgrader, is there anything we can do to make upgrades, er, more robust?21:06
arraybolt3_wcUbuntu has a reputation for not upgrading well IME.21:06
arraybolt3_wc(I have never done an upgrade on a production machine for that reason.)21:06
arraybolt3_wcI don't really understand why upgrades break things so easily on Ubuntu, but if someone has insight into that it would be nice if we could do something in Lubuntu to make things smoother.21:07
lubot[telegram] <teward001> arraybolt3: The upgrade process is nontrivial21:07
kc2bezI have done many so not sure why that reputation exists21:07
lubot[telegram] <teward001> it's not just straightforward it's a whole slew of package migration paths, etc.21:07
kc2bezWe test it every cycle too21:07
arraybolt3_wckc2bez: I've seen a *lot* of people with a "welp upgraded my system and now it's b0rked"21:07
lubot[telegram] <teward001> the reputation of "it breaks on upgrade" is mostly due to other things NOT Lubuntu, etc.21:07
arraybolt3_wctrue21:08
arraybolt3_wcre teward21:08
lubot[telegram] <teward001> arraybolt3: Hardware differences, nonstandard configs for software that're no longer valid, etc.21:08
kc2bezProbably people with loads of PPAs21:08
lubot[telegram] <teward001> that too kc2bez21:08
tsimonq2Speaking of which, did we ever figure out what happens if you upgrade a 22.04 Backports system to 23.04?21:08
lubot[telegram] <teward001> trust me, in Server we see a TON of nginx upgrade bugs when people do upgrades and nginx versions / supported config options / etc. change or things go missing and they assume it's an upgrade failure when they're just idiots.21:08
kc2bezIt worked tsimonq221:08
lubot[telegram] <teward001> and yes i said it some people're idiots21:08
arraybolt3_wctsimonq2: I'm fairly certain we explicityly chose to NOT support that.21:08
kc2bezWe did but my test worked21:09
tsimonq2@teward001: XD21:09
arraybolt3_wchuh, nice21:09
kc2bezSample size of 1 there so sprinkle some salt21:09
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: de juris is not always de facto, if it totally breaks shiznit we should make a point to intentionally block that from happening21:09
arraybolt3_wcI think we should support LTS-to-LTS + Backports installs.21:09
lubot[telegram] <teward001> @tsimonq2 send me a process to follow/test i'll add upgrades to it21:10
kc2bezyes21:10
lubot[telegram] <teward001> upgrade tests*21:10
lubot[telegram] <teward001> yay for KVM VMs.21:10
kc2bezindeed21:10
tsimonq2@teward001: ack :)21:10
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: +121:10
kc2bezsnapshots make rollbacks easy21:10
tsimonq2#UseBtrfs21:10
* tsimonq2 runs21:10
kc2bezhey that works too21:10
lubot[telegram] <teward001> *smacks tsimonq2 back to the reiserfs era*21:11
* kc2bez writes from a btrfs system21:11
* arraybolt3_wc wipes teward001's NAS21:11
tewardERR: NAS NOT FOUND21:11
tewardyay irc works now21:11
* tsimonq2 actually also writes from a btrfs system XD21:11
arraybolt3_wcanyway, that's it for my comments on the first list.21:11
* arraybolt3_wc uses ext4 everywhere all the time except on Fedora systems21:11
tsimonq2Side comment, does ZFS work with Cala? Support is there, we should enable that if possible21:11
arraybolt3_wcNo clue.21:12
kc2bezIt was on my list of things I wanted to test21:12
arraybolt3_wcZFS-on-root has always seemed a bit scary to me21:12
tewardsecond side comment does Cala work with LVM because i don't know and was wondering.21:12
arraybolt3_wcI use ZFS on external drives but never internal ones.21:12
kc2bezI don't think so teward21:12
tsimonq2kpmcore certainly has LVM *support*, I don't see why we couldn't extend that GUI out a tiny bit further21:12
arraybolt3_wcSide comment from me...21:12
kc2bezNeon was doing some magic with LVM maybe, not sure21:12
arraybolt3_wc...does Cala support non-encrypted /boot?21:13
kc2bezyes21:13
arraybolt3_wcI like the extra speed and security of higher versions of LUKS that you can get with non-encrypted /boot21:13
tewardtsimonq2: we probably SHOULD add LVM stuff for things because of parity with default desktop, etc. installs21:13
tsimonq2teward: full ack21:13
tewardthey default to LVM if you don't specify otherwise21:13
arraybolt3_wcIt might be really hard to add support for both encrypted and non-encrypted boot...21:13
arraybolt3_wc...but it *might* help with non-English encrypted installs and things like that21:13
arraybolt3_wcteward: orly?21:13
kc2bezno cala supports it already arraybolt3_wc, you just have to do a manual partition install21:14
tewardarraybolt3_wc: well, server does, desktop if you do anything encrypted it does LVM21:14
tsimonq2Does anyone else have further comments on my first list before we move on to "future plans"/"things to do this cycle" which is this topic anyway? XD21:14
tewardby default21:14
tewardtsimonq2: nope.  but you owe me $32.5021:14
teward:P21:14
arraybolt3_wcI'm done.21:14
kc2bezI am good21:14
arraybolt3_wc(fwiw I know Cala + non-encrypted /boot works with manual partitioning but I meant out of the box)21:14
tsimonq2Here is my rough roadmap for 24.04 LTS, feel free to claim anything of interest: - Anything Qt 6 and Wayland-related will be postponed to 24.10. I would like to have that prepped and ready to go in an ideal world, so we can just upload it when OO opens, but that's an ideal world. - Qt 6 theming is the only exception; we need Qt 6 apps to be themed just like LXQt apps.21:14
tsimonq2 - We really need to address all the weird wallpaper scaling issues. I suspect we'll just have to change the default settings, I'd like some testing so we can settle on a sane default. - I can certainly emulate something, but if we're having any issues with 4K monitor support, let's talk about fixing that.21:15
tsimonq2 - We do really need better GUIs for both bluetooth management and network management. Those should ideally be designed in C++17/Qt 5, but if someone decides they want to be special, I'd deal with Rust or Ruby. - Translations. All The Things with translations. Manual, all of our custom desktop entries, and a language selector on first boot. We really need to get this right, so even if it's a 21:15
tsimonq2special ISO or squashfs with l10n settings applied, I'm all for it.21:15
tsimonq2 - hwclock needs addressing in Calamares. It's being called, but an error is popping up. If I recall correctly, that's just a Python module, so we should go in there and add systemd support, or disable it entirely in favor of a better module. We should also check the Calamares logs for any other errors, or anything weird taking place. - Migrate Calamares to `lxqt-sudo -E` and take care of any 21:15
tsimonq2graphical problems.21:15
tsimonq2 - I know we wanted to investigate OpenQA last cycle, let's talk about that again and see if anything is changed. - Migrate our sandbox infra from Altispeed's Digital Ocean to Altispeed's DC in MSP. I have a VM created on the DC server, and access to it has been granted to teward. (I'm talking to you now from the DO droplet...) - sddm-config-editor, where are we with that?21:15
arraybolt3_wcinput on Qt 6 and Wayland, I agree on postponing Qt 6 but would like Wayland as a PPA for the LTS if possible, I think we discussed that before so not much new there21:16
arraybolt3_wcI don't have a 4K monitor for testing scaling21:16
arraybolt3_wcBluetooth and network management - agreed here, should we try to collab with LXQt on that or are we making special tools just for ourselves?21:16
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: try to collaborate - that very often fails21:17
kc2bezLXQt says use CMST which is a no go21:17
arraybolt3_wcthen I guess we Do It Ourselves21:17
arraybolt3_wcIf we're OK with Qt Quick apps, I got a *lot* of experience with that during my hiatus as it was part of my job21:17
tsimonq2I mean, all the frontends seem to use the same library anyway. There's even networkmanager-qt21:18
arraybolt3_wchttps://i.imgur.com/ZfCFSGx.png (this is all in Qt Quick + Kirigami)21:18
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: Whatever works and isn't ugly/hard to maintain :)21:18
arraybolt3_wc(I helped design and code that)21:18
tsimonq2ooooooooh21:18
arraybolt3_wcI know we wouldn't have Kirigami for Lubuntu but still, Qt Quick is usable and good21:18
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: again, as long as the code isn't unnecessarily, well, a bat out of hell running on spaghetti, I think we're good21:19
arraybolt3_wc(I am not employed by KFocus and probably won't be, but I do some work with them)21:19
tsimonq2Anyway, can I safely "assign" that to you this cycle?21:19
arraybolt3_wcI believe so.21:20
arraybolt3_wcAs long as no "out of left field" events happen again like last cycle :P21:20
arraybolt3_wc(abusive family member left, life went into chaos for a few months there)21:20
tsimonq2such is life, if you need to pass off just do it gracefully :)21:20
tsimonq2I hope everything is well now.21:20
arraybolt3_wcDoing much better now, thanks :)21:20
tsimonq2Glad to hear it :)21:20
tsimonq2Anything else on the list, from anyone?21:20
kc2bezWe will need to get you back into git.l.m at some point arraybolt3_wc21:21
arraybolt3_wctsimonq2: One thing I am worried about, Kubuntu *may* jump to Plasma 6 this cycle.21:21
arraybolt3_wcAs KDE might (not for sure but might) EOL 5.27 once 6 is released.21:21
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: Nah, I already talked to Rik, they won't21:21
arraybolt3_wcah ok21:21
tsimonq2Yeah, Nate Graham said "I'd stick with Plasma 5" so we're following his advice :)21:22
arraybolt3_wcI was thinking, if they were, we may need to have a way to migrate away from Breeze if it goes Qt6.21:22
kc2bezLXQt will likely see an version bump Nov/Dec timeframe based on past history so we will need to watch for that.21:22
arraybolt3_wcthough I guess the Qt5 Breeze might be able to stick around21:22
arraybolt3_wcI dislike that we're using a KDE component to theme our whole desktop though. I would really like if there was some way to get away from that especially after it caused Big Problems in the past.21:22
tsimonq2kc2bez: Good call. Might want to do that as 1) merge from Debian 2) bump to latest upstream release 3) Lintian debug21:22
arraybolt3_wcdid something happen that improved our relationship with the Debian LXQt team?21:23
arraybolt3_wcI liked when we were just packaging it ourselves, and since they've dropped symbols it might get a lot harder to work with their packages (not sure though).21:23
tsimonq2Breeze> I'm open to any maintained solution that works and doesn't look ugly21:23
tsimonq2Debian LXQt> negative, I was thinking about looping teward / guiverc / Philipp in21:23
tewardtsimonq2: to what end?  Debian LXQt team is not related to Ubuntu they're allowed to do their own thing.21:24
tsimonq2Of course, we have full discretion on *what* gets merged from Debian21:24
tsimonq2teward: Maintaining good Debian/Ubuntu relations *shrug*21:24
arraybolt3_wckk, I guess if their packaging is reasonably close to ours we might be able to share there, but I think we're going to have an easier time just doing it all ourselves.21:24
wxlwoops i disappeared21:24
tsimonq2wxl: OHAII21:24
tsimonq2wxl: You have a lot to catch up on XD21:24
tewardah well, Ubuntu and Debian GENERALLY have good relationships, but individual teams might now.21:25
arraybolt3_wcwxl: Speed reading mode activated21:25
tewardwxl: where are the waffle fries you promised me21:25
kc2bezIf Debian is slow, I am not fond of waiting until freeze timelines.21:25
wxlteward: with the bag of unmarked 20s you promised me21:25
tewardwxl: i left those in your locker, if they're gone then simon stole them :P21:25
tsimonq2To be clear, I'd like to merge whatever special sauce they have with 1.3, keeping our own delta, then doing the upstream release by ourselves.21:26
tsimonq2(We do it faster anyway :P)21:26
arraybolt3_wctsimonq2: I'll look around for an alternate theme, we might even be able to make a Breeze-alike using whatever LXQt's theming "language" is (I think it has something like that).21:26
tewardtsimonq2: i mean, you can reach to Philipp directly, but Canonical/Debian relationships are still pretty good, while general Ubuntu Community / Debian interactions and such are fine, if there's specific issues between Lubuntu and Debian LXQt that may not be something the CC can help with21:26
tewardesp. if you two are arguing over symbols files21:26
teward(and only symbols files)21:26
arraybolt3_wcIt's not just symbols files, there's a lot more than that.21:26
tewardthen i need a complete list of what y'all complaining about21:27
tewardand what issues are at contention points, and then evaluate those independently with my thoughts on it21:27
tewardbut that's a little beyond the standard scope of the CC and such but.21:27
tsimonq2*shrug* I'm fine not spending any more time on it and going our own ways, so to speak21:27
arraybolt3_wcIIRC I sent a whole entire list of communication to Simon and the Debian Community Council or something21:27
tewardthat's for a non-irc thing :P21:27
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: feel free21:27
arraybolt3_wctsimonq2: re theming?21:27
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: yes, and yes21:28
arraybolt3_wcah ok21:28
tsimonq2wxl: Your feedback *is* valuable, by the way. If, between your sips of Herba Mate you find something worth commenting on ;)21:28
kc2bez+121:28
wxli'm reading the backlog21:29
tsimonq2What say y'all about sddm-config-editor tho?21:29
arraybolt3_wcI don't even know what that is21:29
kc2bezIt isn't in a great state 21:29
tsimonq2kc2bez: oh yeah?21:29
wxlor obkey *ducks*21:29
tsimonq2XD21:29
kc2beznot sure it builds21:29
arraybolt3_wcSDDM and theming is a *pain* from what I've seen. It's hard to even get it to recognize a custom user avatar.21:30
tsimonq2I can take that on, assuming arraybolt3_wc takes on the new GUIs :)21:30
kc2bezAlso, weird. "There is a Ruby version and a C++ version of this program. "21:30
tsimonq2HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA21:30
tsimonq2I KNEW I SAW THAT SOMEWHERE21:30
kc2bezhttps://github.com/lxqt/sddm-config-editor21:30
arraybolt3_wcwhat on earth?!21:30
kc2bezyeah21:31
arraybolt3_wcThat's like saying "this software is available in both Python and x86 Assembly."21:31
kc2bezAlso "It is in early alpha."21:31
tsimonq2bah that's just a label21:31
tsimonq2when it works it works21:31
arraybolt3_wcPersonally from my (admittedly limited) experience with theming SDDM, I'd personally vote against trying to support that this cycle - I'd lump it in with Wayland support.21:31
kc2bezLol21:31
arraybolt3_wcBut hey, if it can be gotten to work really well and consistently, I could change my mind there.21:32
kc2bezIt would be amazing if it worked even a little better21:32
tsimonq2*shrug* ok cool :)21:32
tsimonq2+121:32
arraybolt3_wc(it's not like I personally get to make these decisions, this is just my first reaction to the idea)21:32
* arraybolt3_wc looks at what sddm-config-editor is21:33
kc2bezMaybe we need to move on21:33
kc2bezhttps://github.com/qtilities/sddm-conf/21:33
arraybolt3_wckc2bez beat me to it21:33
kc2bezI can do some research on it, it is the first I am seeing it21:33
tsimonq2On the list of things we haven't addressed yet I think: wallpaper scaling, translations, hwclock, OpenQA, teward teward teward infra infra infra21:33
arraybolt3_wcthe last commit is saying "this is not supported"21:33
tsimonq2kc2bez: Thanks :) let us know what you find21:34
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: LMAO21:34
tewardwhat about infra or are you bugging me about OQA again21:34
arraybolt3_wcbut the thing kc2bez linked to is supposedly the successor21:34
tsimonq2OQA/do we have anything left on Sandbox or am I the only holdout21:34
teward@tsimonq2 I think you're the only one left there21:34
tewardi haven't touched anything on Sandbox21:34
tsimonq2teward: ack will handle21:34
tewardand my access was root so21:34
arraybolt3_wchttps://github.com/qtilities holy smoke this is a treasure trove21:34
arraybolt3_wcCan we port, like, all of that into Lubuntu?21:35
arraybolt3_wcPicom configuration, SDDM configuration, a color picker, screen magnifier, etc.21:35
tsimonq2We can assess each by their own merit, but I'm certainly not opposed :)21:35
arraybolt3_wcAt first glance it looks like the other half of LXQt we didn't realize we were missing21:36
kc2bezPicom-conf would be nice too21:36
arraybolt3_wcI personally use KColorChooser a lot so a Lubuntu equivalent would be awesome.21:36
kc2bezI will give some of that stuff a try and report back.21:36
tsimonq2Perfect :)21:36
arraybolt3_wc*sigh* no character map though, bummer21:36
wxlbtw i came across this today https://redtide.github.io/openbox-wiki/21:36
arraybolt3_wcthat's one feature I miss from Windows :P21:36
tsimonq2wxl: oooooh21:37
kc2bezThe wiki we wished we always had21:37
tsimonq2wallpaper scaling, translations, hwclock - any takers?21:37
arraybolt3_wcniiiiiice21:37
tsimonq2teward: Honestly, with your infra and dev background, I'm inclined to ask if you could handle translations21:38
arraybolt3_wcwallpaper scaling = reject for me, lack what I need to make it easily doable, translations = unsure, hwclock = willing to take a shot, sounds easy21:38
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: hwclock is all yours then :)21:38
arraybolt3_wc+121:38
tsimonq2Open for general comments otherwise.21:39
tsimonq2(AOB)21:39
tewardtsimonq2: to what end?  Translations is hard, on its own right.  i usually don't touch the translations stuff on any packages, unless you're asking for whether we have a translations system set up21:39
wxlmaybe we need to reinvigorate the global team towards translations21:39
arraybolt3_wcso I do the network widgets, hwclock, and will look into theming. I'll take on lxqt-sudo -E since that's theming related.21:39
kc2bezWell they need something to interface with to do translations21:40
kc2bezweblate etc.21:40
tewarddo we have a specific tooling we want to use?  I know Ubuntu uses some kind of cloud service21:40
tewardor something21:40
wxlwhich clearly worked out well for them21:40
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> 100% not particular21:40
lubot[telegram] <tsimonq2> wxl: XDDDD21:40
kc2bezsame other than I can say LXQt uses weblate21:40
wxlencouraging upstream translations is what really needs to happen21:41
arraybolt3_wcre OpenQA, has any of us even figured out how to use that?21:41
arraybolt3_wcI never can figure out how to set up needle editing.21:41
kc2bezAgreed, I think we were referring to OUR packages that need translating though21:41
arraybolt3_wcI tried to deploy it onto an old laptop with openSUSE Tumbleweed and still didn't get it working.21:41
tewardi'll look into weblate and setting it up, but getting initial strings, etc. up is complicated21:42
tewardand i don't know what all our strings are that need it21:42
tewardi'll add weblate to the list of crap to look at21:42
tewardbeen a bit crazy with EOY stuff @ work too so21:42
wxlwe need a list of all the packages21:42
tsimonq2No worries. With all these items, while we have a 6 month cycle, but really we're looking at 3 months so we can test (translations and PPA stuff exempted from that)21:43
kc2bezI might be able to help with getting a list together21:43
tsimonq2kc2bez: Thank you :)21:43
arraybolt3_wcSounds like we have a pretty action-packed cycle ahead of us :)21:43
wxlwe can still use phab for wiki stuff which is probably a good place for it21:43
* arraybolt3_wc checks to see if I still have notes.lubuntu.me access to note some of these items down21:43
wxlin fact, putting all of this into a wiki would probably be useful, too21:43
arraybolt3_wcif I don't maybe teward can re-add me21:44
tsimonq2Eventually we do need to fully bring Phab down, but for a wiki replacement... Discourse?21:44
arraybolt3_wcI actually do still have access21:44
tsimonq2For now I agree with exl21:44
tsimonq2*wxl21:44
arraybolt3_wcsweet21:44
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: Nice!21:44
kc2bezmaybe tsimonq221:44
wxldiscourse or github21:44
tewardtsimonq2: ye PPA and translations may need the longer cycle than 3 months for test, but i'll work hopefully before then to get it done.21:44
tewardfor weblate.  but it's up to you and the others to populate the strings that need translated21:44
tsimonq2teward: Let us know how we can help :)21:44
teward'cause i won't know them :P21:44
tsimonq2teward: The only hesitation I have with Weblate is, we've had problem translating the manual in the past21:45
wxlor wait there are gitea wikis right?21:45
kc2bezsort of21:45
tsimonq2wxl: hmmm I think? GitHub wikis make me want to puke21:45
arraybolt3_wcGitea wikis> There are but I don't think they support access control21:45
tewardtsimonq2: i don't remember the specifics about that21:45
wxli mean we just need a collaborative place to store and organize text really21:45
arraybolt3_wcI started trying to port over info during Lunar and failed21:45
kc2bezgitea wikis are a little strange too21:46
tewardi think the core problem was it was never functional at all, I don't know the specifics for translating manual, etc.21:46
tsimonq2teward: basically it doesn't treat it as one project, each chapter was treated as its own21:46
arraybolt3_wcwxl: Sounds like a job for a shared Google drive?21:46
kc2bezah no21:46
wxlwell discourse certainly supports the whole wiki concept but it's kind of an afterthought21:46
arraybolt3_wchttps://notes.lubuntu.me/huOk59_iRSaAMZDl_my8bw?edit anyone mind if I tear through and edit this to include our list for this cycle?21:46
tewardtsimonq2: i think that was on us, because weblate HAS multiple project capacity but again I haven't worked with it at all.  We could go with thier hosted cloud, etc. but that's not cheap and only gives us 10k strings and one project for 25 euros a month21:46
wxlsoooooooooooo maybe we just keep phab for the wiki and eliminate all the other bs21:47
tewardbut again i'll poke and see whats' needed21:47
arraybolt3_wcIf we need to keep Phab we may want to upgrade it to Phorge if that's an option21:47
tewardwxl: Or replace phab with something else for the wikis, a-la Mediawiki or such21:47
tewardarraybolt3: I thought Phorge was not developed either anymore, and has no direct migration path21:47
arraybolt3_wcHaving a publicly accessible out-of-date server up there sounds like a recipe for eventual disaster21:47
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: notes> try merging this new list into that :)21:47
wxlfind us some good wiki software, teward, and migrate everything over21:48
arraybolt3_wctsimonq2: +1, that's what I was going to do21:48
tewarddefine "good wiki software"21:48
arraybolt3_wcPhorge sure looks active to me.21:48
tewardand send coffee21:48
tsimonq2+1 XD21:48
* kc2bez sends coffee21:48
tewardarraybolt3_wc: if you're bored see if Phorge has migration docs for Phab -> Phorge21:48
wxlgood = well maintained softwre that you don't mind admining21:48
tsimonq2so Jira21:48
tsimonq2XD21:48
* tsimonq2 ducks21:48
tewardlol no not Jira that shit's evil now21:48
wxlOHHHH !LANGUAGE LANGUAGE TEWARD"S BAD21:49
arraybolt3_wcteward: https://we.phorge.it/w/installation_and_setup/update_from_phabricator/21:49
teward!language | teward21:49
ubottuteward: Please see my private message21:49
tewardno shush ubottu that was intentinoal21:49
arraybolt3_wc!language | ubottu21:49
ubottuubottu: Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList21:49
kc2bezmediawiki is probably solid, I don't think wikipedia is going anywhere21:49
tsimonq2it's shiznit XD21:49
arraybolt3_wcmediawiki's syntax makes me want to throw up. On my keyboard.21:49
kc2bezthere is that21:49
tewardarraybolt3_wc: do you have an alternative?21:49
arraybolt3_wcPhorge :P21:50
tewardthe problem is that Markdown flavors are not standard across *any* wiki so21:50
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: You basically have to do that anyway just to get it working :P21:50
kc2bezdokuwiki maybe?21:50
tewardi don't have an issue migrating to Phorge at least for the wiki part21:50
tewarddokuwiki is its own pain21:50
arraybolt3_wcWhat I would like is essentially self-hosted Reddit all to ourselves :P but that's obviously not possible21:50
arraybolt3_wcactually...21:50
arraybolt3_wcwhat if we did something like that with Lemmy or some such?21:50
kc2bezI feel like I have used them all at this point so whatever everyone else likes21:50
wxli would like if it were something markdown ish21:50
arraybolt3_wcIt's not Wiki software but it might stand in and work like one.21:51
kc2bezLemmy isn't great for a wiki21:51
tsimonq2+1 on Markdown variant21:51
* kc2bez runs a lemmy server21:51
tewardi'm not writing a platform so pick one that works and stick to that.  Worst case I build Phorge from scratch21:51
tewardbut we have a habit of not keeping our documentation up to date there either so21:51
teward(also we're not using it for git, gitea++)21:51
wxlseems like phorge is the easy route21:52
tewardye i'll poke Phorge21:52
kc2bezI can support that21:52
tewardmight clone Phab down and mess with things on my end21:52
wxlmigration should be easy21:52
tsimonq2uhhhh wait is Phorge now what Phab was?21:52
arraybolt3_wcI liked Phab's Wiki so that's where my vote is.21:52
arraybolt3_wcPhorge is a fork / continuation of Phab.21:52
tewardtsimonq2: fork of Phab, continues where KDE / Phab left off21:52
tsimonq2oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh21:52
tewardand no we're not going back to Phab for pull reqs, etc.21:53
tewardwe're firmly on pure Git now21:53
tsimonq2+121:53
kc2bezLol21:53
arraybolt3_wc+1 on that teward 21:53
tsimonq2teward: can it still host the SimonsFault image XD21:53
tewardtsimonq2: that's easy i can put that anywhere even on lubuntu.me main site xD21:53
tsimonq2*sets it as the favicon*21:53
teward*hardcodes a shutdown code into tsimonq2*21:54
* arraybolt3_wc quickly DDoS's lubuntu.me before that becomes public21:54
kc2bezI'm nostolgic with phab21:54
kc2bezSpeaking of lubuntu.me is that 100% again?21:54
tewardit's *operational* if that's what you mean21:55
tsimonq2So, it's still being hosted by mceppi, Canonical's didn't work out apparently21:55
tewardtsimonq2: Canonical wanted a whole special format, theme only, site content only, no plugins, etc.21:55
arraybolt3_wcThat's another thing, we still haven't rewritten the website, and I lost my attempted rewrite :(21:55
wxlwe need to rebuild based on stock wordpress21:55
tsimonq2I hate WP I hate WP I hate WP I hate WP21:55
wxlit could be worse21:55
tewardwe aren't *stuck* with WP we can go with another platform, so long as we can theme it proper21:55
arraybolt3_wcIt was coming along good too, I don't know if I'll have the bandwidth to do that this cycle.21:55
tsimonq2Static, Markdown-based rewrite would certainly be preferred. Altispeed even does web hosting, I'm sure they'd help us out21:55
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: No worries, that's On The List for Eventually but Please Do21:56
arraybolt3_wcMarkdown and RST aren't great for a nice website front page.21:56
arraybolt3_wclearned that the hard way when experimenting with Nikola21:56
tewardtsimonq2: last i checked with the god at ALtispeed they said they only were doing you a favor but markdown and RST are poor for front pages21:56
arraybolt3_wcended up writing things by hand in HTML21:56
tsimonq2teward: Noah has since changed his mind on that, we have several Markdown sites21:57
kc2bezI think our blog posts should be MD though21:57
arraybolt3_wcagreed21:57
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: Markdown converts into HTML for rendering anyway21:57
arraybolt3_wcNikola can do an MD blog alongside an HTML site21:57
tsimonq2So you **can** mix the two in an MD file21:57
arraybolt3_wctsimonq2: yeah but try embedding SVGs and buttons in nice columns with MD and see how that works out :P21:57
tsimonq2:P21:57
kc2bezYeah still no elementor love on l.me21:57
arraybolt3_wcoh wait you can mix HTML into MD?21:57
arraybolt3_wcI didn't know that21:57
wxllook. how many of us like web design? that's what i thought. wordpress it is.21:58
* arraybolt3_wc likes web design21:58
kc2bezXDDDDD21:58
tsimonq2wxl: I hate that you're right. I really hate it. XD21:58
tewardlol21:58
arraybolt3_wchow many of us hate wordpress bugs and administration? that's what I thought Nikola it is.21:59
tewardwe aren't *stuck* on WP we can use an alternative CMS or such, but ye since none of us *like* to do web design.21:59
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: Then be our web design guy, unless we can bribe Raf to come back ;)21:59
tewardarraybolt3_wc: fun fact autopatch is a thing and already implemented on the lubuntu.me site21:59
arraybolt3_wcIf I can, I will, but again, can't promise I'll be able to.21:59
tsimonq2Does anyone have the phone number for Chris Hemsworth? That'll certainly get Raf back :P21:59
arraybolt3_wcautopatch... not the RPM macro I assume :P21:59
tewardarraybolt3_wc: i don't use the prepackaged deb files for WP core and plugins22:00
tewardthey're all done by WP itself with autocron, etc. tasks22:00
tsimonq2arraybolt3_wc: nah we get annoying^Mhelpful emails about plugins updating and such22:00
kc2bezI see it patching stuff but it never seems to fix it for me22:00
kc2bezIt could be a "me" problem though22:00
tsimonq2Anyway, we're at 22 UTC.22:00
tsimonq2#topic AOB22:00
kc2bezFun22:00
* tsimonq2 slaps ubottu with a wet fish22:00
tsimonq2#meetingtopic AOB22:01
* arraybolt3_wc cleans off ubottu22:01
arraybolt3_wctsimonq2: try #topic22:01
tsimonq2bah screw it we all know where to find the dev channel XD22:01
arraybolt3_wcoh you jsut did22:01
tsimonq2#endmeeting22:01
arraybolt3_wcnvm22:01
meetingologyMeeting ended at 22:01:31 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2023/lubuntu-devel.2023-10-19-20.59.moin.txt22:01
arraybolt3_wc+122:01
arraybolt3_wcOK that was fun and exciting!22:01
kc2bez!cookie ubottu22:01
tsimonq2teward, arraybolt3_wc, wxl, kc2bez: Thank you all for making it :)22:01
kc2bezof course22:02
arraybolt3_wcGlad I could, and really glad I didn't miss it because of my misperception of time22:02
arraybolt3_wc!botsnack22:02
ubottuYum! Err, I mean, APT!22:02
tsimonq2Today has been a lazy day, so /me goes AFK22:02
arraybolt3_wc+1, dogs going nuts so I better get him back inside22:02
* kc2bez needs food22:02
arraybolt3_wcoh right, food is something we humans do22:03
tsimonq2yeah I almost forgot too XD22:03
tewardso fyi22:03
tewardi may be migrating our data to an SSD driven server on OVH22:04
tewardgot a nice deal for a new bare metal there22:04
tewardor i'll leave it we'll see22:04
arraybolt3_wcoh awesome22:05
wxlawesome? we're making it the default wm?22:06
wxlnothing like writing lua to make configuration a breeze22:06
arraybolt3_wcwxl: lol22:11
arraybolt3_wcLubuntu - Tiling Edition22:11
wxlthere ya go22:12
tewardlol i may move SOME components to a new OVH baremetal but i'm paying for that thing entirely out of pocket, so22:14
tewardthat'll be *mine* but i'll dedicate some stuff to Lubuntu for weblate 'cause that needs speed22:14
tewardbut until then22:14
teward*burps*22:14

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