[20:16] <arraybolt3> What time is the standup again?
[20:16] <tsimonq2> 2100 UTC, so in like 45 minutes.
[20:16] <arraybolt3> oh what? I thought 2100 UTC Thursday was Friday in CST.
[20:17] <arraybolt3> Well glad I'm not late :D
[20:17] <tsimonq2> It's currently Thursday 20:17 UTC ;)
[20:17] <tsimonq2> You have it backwards :)
[20:17] <arraybolt3> lol
[20:18]  * arraybolt3 enables a companion UTC clock
[20:23] <arraybolt3> if my desktop gets much more crowded I'mma have to enable a third panel :P
[20:24] <arraybolt3> https://i.imgur.com/Pk2MZ1R.png
[20:30] <wxl> arraybolt3: /alias 2utc exec - TZ=UTC date -Rd "$0- `date +%Z`"
[20:30] <wxl> at least if you irssi
[20:31] <tsimonq2> irssi > all other IRC clients
[20:31] <wxl> or if you don't want to do conversions but just see utc time then /alias utc exec - date -u -R
[20:32] <wxl> or if you want to convert to local time /alias 2local exec - date -Rd 'TZ="UTC" $0-'
[20:33] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: s/irssi/weechat/
[20:33] <arraybolt3> (though I'm using The Lounge right now for reasons)
[20:34] <arraybolt3> I can fix that though
[20:34] <arraybolt3_wc> there
[20:34] <arraybolt3_wc> ah, and now I get to use the nice font I found the other day for my terminal (turns out I'm a fan of Red Hat Mono as a coding and terminal font)
[20:49] <tsimonq2> wxl, arraybolt3, @kc2bez, @teward001: ~= 20 minute warning for the development meeting.
 👍
[20:54] <arraybolt3_wc> +1
[20:59] <arraybolt3_wc> 1 minute warning?
[20:59] <arraybolt3_wc> or is there an extra 10 minutes I wasn't aware of? (don't think so)
[20:59] <tsimonq2> #startmeeting Lubuntu Development Meeting, beginning of NN cycle
[20:59] <meetingology> Meeting started at 20:59:32 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[20:59] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[20:59] <tsimonq2> wxl, arraybolt3, @kc2bez, @teward001: Make yourself known, I'll start in a few.
[21:00] <kc2bez> o/ here
[21:00] <arraybolt3_wc> o/
[21:00]  * arraybolt3_wc attempts to yank teward out of the mess of Ethernet cables he trapped himself in last night
[21:02] <tsimonq2> There's always backlog :)
[21:02] <tsimonq2> Hi Lubuntu Developers, let's get started. I have a summary prepared of recent changes to Lubuntu; I'll go through it, give you all an opportunity to comment, and proceed to LTS(+) plans. Here's the summary:
[21:02] <tsimonq2>  - LXQt Power Management UX has been addressed. Currently, on every desktop machine for first boot (including VMs), a "No Battery" notification is displayed. This is not good UX. I started a PR here, but would like to get that status notifier taken care of before 24.04: https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt-powermanagement/pull/382
[21:02] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Pull 382 in lxqt/lxqt-powermanagement "Show a notification when the battery is present, not absent" [Open]
[21:02] <tsimonq2>  - Started some SRUs regarding the update notifier and release upgrading. Currently there's no graphical path to doing a release upgrade, so that's fixed. I need to iterate on the patch one more time to take a Pythonic approach to `do-release-upgrade -c`, instead of just checking it. bug 2039093 bug 2038958 - Wrote Netplan support for Calamares before the release, if anyone is looking for a good 
[21:02] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2039093 in lxqt-sudo (Ubuntu Mantic) "[SRU] Add -E support to lxqt-sudo" [Medium, Fix Committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2039093
[21:02] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2038958 in lubuntu-update-notifier (Ubuntu Mantic) "[SRU] Add support for release upgrading" [Medium, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2038958
[21:02] <tsimonq2> entry-level Python task, that could use some consolidation (he merged it anyway): https://github.com/calamares/calamares/pull/2209
[21:02] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Pull 2209 in calamares/calamares "Quick vendor patch to add support for Netplan-based configs" [Merged]
[21:02] <tsimonq2>  - Filed some upstream issues regarding ProcessJob and contextualprocess, again, a good low-hanging-fruit task: https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/2212 https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/2214 - Helped our KDE friends out in bug 2039492
[21:02] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Bug 2039492 in plasma-distro-release-notifier (Ubuntu Mantic) "[SRU] plasma-distro-release-notifier gets EOL data from git.launchpad.net" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2039492
[21:02] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Issue 2212 in calamares/calamares "Add optional env vars for ProcessJob" [Open]
[21:02] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Issue 2214 in calamares/calamares "ProcessJob and contextualprocess operate differently" [Open]
[21:02] <tsimonq2>  - Calamares (via a module I wrote) now has a Customize screen, allowing the user to choose Minimal Install/Normal Install, whether they want an upgrade ran while installing, third party software drivers, and the (somewhat controversial) package selection feature. I am making the executive decision to upload this, and I've prepared all necessary policy justification. As usual, if we need to change 
[21:02] <tsimonq2> this mid-cycle, #SimonsFault ;) - When NN opens, I have all the necessary bootstrap packages ready, for the archive development tools *and* Lubuntu. Just waiting on a codename.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> .
[21:03] <arraybolt3_wc> Why was the package selectoin feature controversial again?
[21:03] <arraybolt3_wc> I remember there was something about "feathers that shouldn't be ruffled" but don't remember
[21:03] <tsimonq2> The TB doesn't follow their own text in practice: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1apUKR4gtOrfPGCWmtoebaQUhoy-fG8Cyo3VKJyhnpD0/edit
[21:03] <arraybolt3_wc> ah, right
[21:04] <arraybolt3_wc> #DontCare
 dude i was in the rest room after drinking 10 coffees YOU will have to piss too. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> wxl, arraybolt3, @kc2bez, @teward001: Make yourself known, I'll start in a few.)
[21:04] <tsimonq2> LMFAO hi
[21:04] <arraybolt3_wc> teward: So trapped in Ethernet cables and overcaffinated. Makes sense.
[21:04] <arraybolt3_wc> *ducks
[21:04] <kc2bez> That is an impressive start tsimonq2
[21:04] <kc2bez> Really impressive
[21:05] <tsimonq2> Thanks :) I've had too much free time in a car ;)
[21:05] <arraybolt3_wc> +1
[21:05] <arraybolt3_wc> Very excited about the power management notification fix and the minimal install option.
 arraybolt3: you have white-chocolate toilet paper on your shoes there.
 *plays catchup*
[21:06] <tsimonq2> I'll wait a bit longer for further comment before I paste my next list ;)
[21:06] <arraybolt3_wc> One thing I would like to know is, for the graphical upgrader, is there anything we can do to make upgrades, er, more robust?
[21:06] <arraybolt3_wc> Ubuntu has a reputation for not upgrading well IME.
[21:06] <arraybolt3_wc> (I have never done an upgrade on a production machine for that reason.)
[21:07] <arraybolt3_wc> I don't really understand why upgrades break things so easily on Ubuntu, but if someone has insight into that it would be nice if we could do something in Lubuntu to make things smoother.
 arraybolt3: The upgrade process is nontrivial
[21:07] <kc2bez> I have done many so not sure why that reputation exists
 it's not just straightforward it's a whole slew of package migration paths, etc.
[21:07] <kc2bez> We test it every cycle too
[21:07] <arraybolt3_wc> kc2bez: I've seen a *lot* of people with a "welp upgraded my system and now it's b0rked"
 the reputation of "it breaks on upgrade" is mostly due to other things NOT Lubuntu, etc.
[21:08] <arraybolt3_wc> true
[21:08] <arraybolt3_wc> re teward
 arraybolt3: Hardware differences, nonstandard configs for software that're no longer valid, etc.
[21:08] <kc2bez> Probably people with loads of PPAs
 that too kc2bez
[21:08] <tsimonq2> Speaking of which, did we ever figure out what happens if you upgrade a 22.04 Backports system to 23.04?
 trust me, in Server we see a TON of nginx upgrade bugs when people do upgrades and nginx versions / supported config options / etc. change or things go missing and they assume it's an upgrade failure when they're just idiots.
[21:08] <kc2bez> It worked tsimonq2
 and yes i said it some people're idiots
[21:08] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: I'm fairly certain we explicityly chose to NOT support that.
[21:09] <kc2bez> We did but my test worked
[21:09] <tsimonq2> @teward001: XD
[21:09] <arraybolt3_wc> huh, nice
[21:09] <kc2bez> Sample size of 1 there so sprinkle some salt
[21:09] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: de juris is not always de facto, if it totally breaks shiznit we should make a point to intentionally block that from happening
[21:09] <arraybolt3_wc> I think we should support LTS-to-LTS + Backports installs.
 @tsimonq2 send me a process to follow/test i'll add upgrades to it
[21:10] <kc2bez> yes
 upgrade tests*
 yay for KVM VMs.
[21:10] <kc2bez> indeed
[21:10] <tsimonq2> @teward001: ack :)
[21:10] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: +1
[21:10] <kc2bez> snapshots make rollbacks easy
[21:10] <tsimonq2> #UseBtrfs
[21:10]  * tsimonq2 runs
[21:10] <kc2bez> hey that works too
 *smacks tsimonq2 back to the reiserfs era*
[21:11]  * kc2bez writes from a btrfs system
[21:11]  * arraybolt3_wc wipes teward001's NAS
[21:11] <teward> ERR: NAS NOT FOUND
[21:11] <teward> yay irc works now
[21:11]  * tsimonq2 actually also writes from a btrfs system XD
[21:11] <arraybolt3_wc> anyway, that's it for my comments on the first list.
[21:11]  * arraybolt3_wc uses ext4 everywhere all the time except on Fedora systems
[21:11] <tsimonq2> Side comment, does ZFS work with Cala? Support is there, we should enable that if possible
[21:12] <arraybolt3_wc> No clue.
[21:12] <kc2bez> It was on my list of things I wanted to test
[21:12] <arraybolt3_wc> ZFS-on-root has always seemed a bit scary to me
[21:12] <teward> second side comment does Cala work with LVM because i don't know and was wondering.
[21:12] <arraybolt3_wc> I use ZFS on external drives but never internal ones.
[21:12] <kc2bez> I don't think so teward
[21:12] <tsimonq2> kpmcore certainly has LVM *support*, I don't see why we couldn't extend that GUI out a tiny bit further
[21:12] <arraybolt3_wc> Side comment from me...
[21:12] <kc2bez> Neon was doing some magic with LVM maybe, not sure
[21:13] <arraybolt3_wc> ...does Cala support non-encrypted /boot?
[21:13] <kc2bez> yes
[21:13] <arraybolt3_wc> I like the extra speed and security of higher versions of LUKS that you can get with non-encrypted /boot
[21:13] <teward> tsimonq2: we probably SHOULD add LVM stuff for things because of parity with default desktop, etc. installs
[21:13] <tsimonq2> teward: full ack
[21:13] <teward> they default to LVM if you don't specify otherwise
[21:13] <arraybolt3_wc> It might be really hard to add support for both encrypted and non-encrypted boot...
[21:13] <arraybolt3_wc> ...but it *might* help with non-English encrypted installs and things like that
[21:13] <arraybolt3_wc> teward: orly?
[21:14] <kc2bez> no cala supports it already arraybolt3_wc, you just have to do a manual partition install
[21:14] <teward> arraybolt3_wc: well, server does, desktop if you do anything encrypted it does LVM
[21:14] <tsimonq2> Does anyone else have further comments on my first list before we move on to "future plans"/"things to do this cycle" which is this topic anyway? XD
[21:14] <teward> by default
[21:14] <teward> tsimonq2: nope.  but you owe me $32.50
[21:14] <teward> :P
[21:14] <arraybolt3_wc> I'm done.
[21:14] <kc2bez> I am good
[21:14] <arraybolt3_wc> (fwiw I know Cala + non-encrypted /boot works with manual partitioning but I meant out of the box)
[21:14] <tsimonq2> Here is my rough roadmap for 24.04 LTS, feel free to claim anything of interest: - Anything Qt 6 and Wayland-related will be postponed to 24.10. I would like to have that prepped and ready to go in an ideal world, so we can just upload it when OO opens, but that's an ideal world. - Qt 6 theming is the only exception; we need Qt 6 apps to be themed just like LXQt apps.
[21:15] <tsimonq2>  - We really need to address all the weird wallpaper scaling issues. I suspect we'll just have to change the default settings, I'd like some testing so we can settle on a sane default. - I can certainly emulate something, but if we're having any issues with 4K monitor support, let's talk about fixing that.
[21:15] <tsimonq2>  - We do really need better GUIs for both bluetooth management and network management. Those should ideally be designed in C++17/Qt 5, but if someone decides they want to be special, I'd deal with Rust or Ruby. - Translations. All The Things with translations. Manual, all of our custom desktop entries, and a language selector on first boot. We really need to get this right, so even if it's a 
[21:15] <tsimonq2> special ISO or squashfs with l10n settings applied, I'm all for it.
[21:15] <tsimonq2>  - hwclock needs addressing in Calamares. It's being called, but an error is popping up. If I recall correctly, that's just a Python module, so we should go in there and add systemd support, or disable it entirely in favor of a better module. We should also check the Calamares logs for any other errors, or anything weird taking place. - Migrate Calamares to `lxqt-sudo -E` and take care of any 
[21:15] <tsimonq2> graphical problems.
[21:15] <tsimonq2>  - I know we wanted to investigate OpenQA last cycle, let's talk about that again and see if anything is changed. - Migrate our sandbox infra from Altispeed's Digital Ocean to Altispeed's DC in MSP. I have a VM created on the DC server, and access to it has been granted to teward. (I'm talking to you now from the DO droplet...) - sddm-config-editor, where are we with that?
[21:16] <arraybolt3_wc> input on Qt 6 and Wayland, I agree on postponing Qt 6 but would like Wayland as a PPA for the LTS if possible, I think we discussed that before so not much new there
[21:16] <arraybolt3_wc> I don't have a 4K monitor for testing scaling
[21:16] <arraybolt3_wc> Bluetooth and network management - agreed here, should we try to collab with LXQt on that or are we making special tools just for ourselves?
[21:17] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: try to collaborate - that very often fails
[21:17] <kc2bez> LXQt says use CMST which is a no go
[21:17] <arraybolt3_wc> then I guess we Do It Ourselves
[21:17] <arraybolt3_wc> If we're OK with Qt Quick apps, I got a *lot* of experience with that during my hiatus as it was part of my job
[21:18] <tsimonq2> I mean, all the frontends seem to use the same library anyway. There's even networkmanager-qt
[21:18] <arraybolt3_wc> https://i.imgur.com/ZfCFSGx.png (this is all in Qt Quick + Kirigami)
[21:18] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: Whatever works and isn't ugly/hard to maintain :)
[21:18] <arraybolt3_wc> (I helped design and code that)
[21:18] <tsimonq2> ooooooooh
[21:18] <arraybolt3_wc> I know we wouldn't have Kirigami for Lubuntu but still, Qt Quick is usable and good
[21:19] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: again, as long as the code isn't unnecessarily, well, a bat out of hell running on spaghetti, I think we're good
[21:19] <arraybolt3_wc> (I am not employed by KFocus and probably won't be, but I do some work with them)
[21:19] <tsimonq2> Anyway, can I safely "assign" that to you this cycle?
[21:20] <arraybolt3_wc> I believe so.
[21:20] <arraybolt3_wc> As long as no "out of left field" events happen again like last cycle :P
[21:20] <arraybolt3_wc> (abusive family member left, life went into chaos for a few months there)
[21:20] <tsimonq2> such is life, if you need to pass off just do it gracefully :)
[21:20] <tsimonq2> I hope everything is well now.
[21:20] <arraybolt3_wc> Doing much better now, thanks :)
[21:20] <tsimonq2> Glad to hear it :)
[21:20] <tsimonq2> Anything else on the list, from anyone?
[21:21] <kc2bez> We will need to get you back into git.l.m at some point arraybolt3_wc
[21:21] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: One thing I am worried about, Kubuntu *may* jump to Plasma 6 this cycle.
[21:21] <arraybolt3_wc> As KDE might (not for sure but might) EOL 5.27 once 6 is released.
[21:21] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: Nah, I already talked to Rik, they won't
[21:21] <arraybolt3_wc> ah ok
[21:22] <tsimonq2> Yeah, Nate Graham said "I'd stick with Plasma 5" so we're following his advice :)
[21:22] <arraybolt3_wc> I was thinking, if they were, we may need to have a way to migrate away from Breeze if it goes Qt6.
[21:22] <kc2bez> LXQt will likely see an version bump Nov/Dec timeframe based on past history so we will need to watch for that.
[21:22] <arraybolt3_wc> though I guess the Qt5 Breeze might be able to stick around
[21:22] <arraybolt3_wc> I dislike that we're using a KDE component to theme our whole desktop though. I would really like if there was some way to get away from that especially after it caused Big Problems in the past.
[21:22] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: Good call. Might want to do that as 1) merge from Debian 2) bump to latest upstream release 3) Lintian debug
[21:23] <arraybolt3_wc> did something happen that improved our relationship with the Debian LXQt team?
[21:23] <arraybolt3_wc> I liked when we were just packaging it ourselves, and since they've dropped symbols it might get a lot harder to work with their packages (not sure though).
[21:23] <tsimonq2> Breeze> I'm open to any maintained solution that works and doesn't look ugly
[21:23] <tsimonq2> Debian LXQt> negative, I was thinking about looping teward / guiverc / Philipp in
[21:24] <teward> tsimonq2: to what end?  Debian LXQt team is not related to Ubuntu they're allowed to do their own thing.
[21:24] <tsimonq2> Of course, we have full discretion on *what* gets merged from Debian
[21:24] <tsimonq2> teward: Maintaining good Debian/Ubuntu relations *shrug*
[21:24] <arraybolt3_wc> kk, I guess if their packaging is reasonably close to ours we might be able to share there, but I think we're going to have an easier time just doing it all ourselves.
[21:24] <wxl> woops i disappeared
[21:24] <tsimonq2> wxl: OHAII
[21:24] <tsimonq2> wxl: You have a lot to catch up on XD
[21:25] <teward> ah well, Ubuntu and Debian GENERALLY have good relationships, but individual teams might now.
[21:25] <arraybolt3_wc> wxl: Speed reading mode activated
[21:25] <teward> wxl: where are the waffle fries you promised me
[21:25] <kc2bez> If Debian is slow, I am not fond of waiting until freeze timelines.
[21:25] <wxl> teward: with the bag of unmarked 20s you promised me
[21:25] <teward> wxl: i left those in your locker, if they're gone then simon stole them :P
[21:26] <tsimonq2> To be clear, I'd like to merge whatever special sauce they have with 1.3, keeping our own delta, then doing the upstream release by ourselves.
[21:26] <tsimonq2> (We do it faster anyway :P)
[21:26] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: I'll look around for an alternate theme, we might even be able to make a Breeze-alike using whatever LXQt's theming "language" is (I think it has something like that).
[21:26] <teward> tsimonq2: i mean, you can reach to Philipp directly, but Canonical/Debian relationships are still pretty good, while general Ubuntu Community / Debian interactions and such are fine, if there's specific issues between Lubuntu and Debian LXQt that may not be something the CC can help with
[21:26] <teward> esp. if you two are arguing over symbols files
[21:26] <teward> (and only symbols files)
[21:26] <arraybolt3_wc> It's not just symbols files, there's a lot more than that.
[21:27] <teward> then i need a complete list of what y'all complaining about
[21:27] <teward> and what issues are at contention points, and then evaluate those independently with my thoughts on it
[21:27] <teward> but that's a little beyond the standard scope of the CC and such but.
[21:27] <tsimonq2> *shrug* I'm fine not spending any more time on it and going our own ways, so to speak
[21:27] <arraybolt3_wc> IIRC I sent a whole entire list of communication to Simon and the Debian Community Council or something
[21:27] <teward> that's for a non-irc thing :P
[21:27] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: feel free
[21:27] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: re theming?
[21:28] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: yes, and yes
[21:28] <arraybolt3_wc> ah ok
[21:28] <tsimonq2> wxl: Your feedback *is* valuable, by the way. If, between your sips of Herba Mate you find something worth commenting on ;)
[21:28] <kc2bez> +1
[21:29] <wxl> i'm reading the backlog
[21:29] <tsimonq2> What say y'all about sddm-config-editor tho?
[21:29] <arraybolt3_wc> I don't even know what that is
[21:29] <kc2bez> It isn't in a great state 
[21:29] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: oh yeah?
[21:29] <wxl> or obkey *ducks*
[21:29] <tsimonq2> XD
[21:29] <kc2bez> not sure it builds
[21:30] <arraybolt3_wc> SDDM and theming is a *pain* from what I've seen. It's hard to even get it to recognize a custom user avatar.
[21:30] <tsimonq2> I can take that on, assuming arraybolt3_wc takes on the new GUIs :)
[21:30] <kc2bez> Also, weird. "There is a Ruby version and a C++ version of this program. "
[21:30] <tsimonq2> HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[21:30] <tsimonq2> I KNEW I SAW THAT SOMEWHERE
[21:30] <kc2bez> https://github.com/lxqt/sddm-config-editor
[21:30] <arraybolt3_wc> what on earth?!
[21:31] <kc2bez> yeah
[21:31] <arraybolt3_wc> That's like saying "this software is available in both Python and x86 Assembly."
[21:31] <kc2bez> Also "It is in early alpha."
[21:31] <tsimonq2> bah that's just a label
[21:31] <tsimonq2> when it works it works
[21:31] <arraybolt3_wc> Personally from my (admittedly limited) experience with theming SDDM, I'd personally vote against trying to support that this cycle - I'd lump it in with Wayland support.
[21:31] <kc2bez> Lol
[21:32] <arraybolt3_wc> But hey, if it can be gotten to work really well and consistently, I could change my mind there.
[21:32] <kc2bez> It would be amazing if it worked even a little better
[21:32] <tsimonq2> *shrug* ok cool :)
[21:32] <tsimonq2> +1
[21:32] <arraybolt3_wc> (it's not like I personally get to make these decisions, this is just my first reaction to the idea)
[21:33]  * arraybolt3_wc looks at what sddm-config-editor is
[21:33] <kc2bez> Maybe we need to move on
[21:33] <kc2bez> https://github.com/qtilities/sddm-conf/
[21:33] <arraybolt3_wc> kc2bez beat me to it
[21:33] <kc2bez> I can do some research on it, it is the first I am seeing it
[21:33] <tsimonq2> On the list of things we haven't addressed yet I think: wallpaper scaling, translations, hwclock, OpenQA, teward teward teward infra infra infra
[21:33] <arraybolt3_wc> the last commit is saying "this is not supported"
[21:34] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: Thanks :) let us know what you find
[21:34] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: LMAO
[21:34] <teward> what about infra or are you bugging me about OQA again
[21:34] <arraybolt3_wc> but the thing kc2bez linked to is supposedly the successor
[21:34] <tsimonq2> OQA/do we have anything left on Sandbox or am I the only holdout
[21:34] <teward> @tsimonq2 I think you're the only one left there
[21:34] <teward> i haven't touched anything on Sandbox
[21:34] <tsimonq2> teward: ack will handle
[21:34] <teward> and my access was root so
[21:34] <arraybolt3_wc> https://github.com/qtilities holy smoke this is a treasure trove
[21:35] <arraybolt3_wc> Can we port, like, all of that into Lubuntu?
[21:35] <arraybolt3_wc> Picom configuration, SDDM configuration, a color picker, screen magnifier, etc.
[21:35] <tsimonq2> We can assess each by their own merit, but I'm certainly not opposed :)
[21:36] <arraybolt3_wc> At first glance it looks like the other half of LXQt we didn't realize we were missing
[21:36] <kc2bez> Picom-conf would be nice too
[21:36] <arraybolt3_wc> I personally use KColorChooser a lot so a Lubuntu equivalent would be awesome.
[21:36] <kc2bez> I will give some of that stuff a try and report back.
[21:36] <tsimonq2> Perfect :)
[21:36] <arraybolt3_wc> *sigh* no character map though, bummer
[21:36] <wxl> btw i came across this today https://redtide.github.io/openbox-wiki/
[21:36] <arraybolt3_wc> that's one feature I miss from Windows :P
[21:37] <tsimonq2> wxl: oooooh
[21:37] <kc2bez> The wiki we wished we always had
[21:37] <tsimonq2> wallpaper scaling, translations, hwclock - any takers?
[21:37] <arraybolt3_wc> niiiiiice
[21:38] <tsimonq2> teward: Honestly, with your infra and dev background, I'm inclined to ask if you could handle translations
[21:38] <arraybolt3_wc> wallpaper scaling = reject for me, lack what I need to make it easily doable, translations = unsure, hwclock = willing to take a shot, sounds easy
[21:38] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: hwclock is all yours then :)
[21:38] <arraybolt3_wc> +1
[21:39] <tsimonq2> Open for general comments otherwise.
[21:39] <tsimonq2> (AOB)
[21:39] <teward> tsimonq2: to what end?  Translations is hard, on its own right.  i usually don't touch the translations stuff on any packages, unless you're asking for whether we have a translations system set up
[21:39] <wxl> maybe we need to reinvigorate the global team towards translations
[21:39] <arraybolt3_wc> so I do the network widgets, hwclock, and will look into theming. I'll take on lxqt-sudo -E since that's theming related.
[21:40] <kc2bez> Well they need something to interface with to do translations
[21:40] <kc2bez> weblate etc.
[21:40] <teward> do we have a specific tooling we want to use?  I know Ubuntu uses some kind of cloud service
[21:40] <teward> or something
[21:40] <wxl> which clearly worked out well for them
 100% not particular
 wxl: XDDDD
[21:40] <kc2bez> same other than I can say LXQt uses weblate
[21:41] <wxl> encouraging upstream translations is what really needs to happen
[21:41] <arraybolt3_wc> re OpenQA, has any of us even figured out how to use that?
[21:41] <arraybolt3_wc> I never can figure out how to set up needle editing.
[21:41] <kc2bez> Agreed, I think we were referring to OUR packages that need translating though
[21:41] <arraybolt3_wc> I tried to deploy it onto an old laptop with openSUSE Tumbleweed and still didn't get it working.
[21:42] <teward> i'll look into weblate and setting it up, but getting initial strings, etc. up is complicated
[21:42] <teward> and i don't know what all our strings are that need it
[21:42] <teward> i'll add weblate to the list of crap to look at
[21:42] <teward> been a bit crazy with EOY stuff @ work too so
[21:42] <wxl> we need a list of all the packages
[21:43] <tsimonq2> No worries. With all these items, while we have a 6 month cycle, but really we're looking at 3 months so we can test (translations and PPA stuff exempted from that)
[21:43] <kc2bez> I might be able to help with getting a list together
[21:43] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: Thank you :)
[21:43] <arraybolt3_wc> Sounds like we have a pretty action-packed cycle ahead of us :)
[21:43] <wxl> we can still use phab for wiki stuff which is probably a good place for it
[21:43]  * arraybolt3_wc checks to see if I still have notes.lubuntu.me access to note some of these items down
[21:43] <wxl> in fact, putting all of this into a wiki would probably be useful, too
[21:44] <arraybolt3_wc> if I don't maybe teward can re-add me
[21:44] <tsimonq2> Eventually we do need to fully bring Phab down, but for a wiki replacement... Discourse?
[21:44] <arraybolt3_wc> I actually do still have access
[21:44] <tsimonq2> For now I agree with exl
[21:44] <tsimonq2> *wxl
[21:44] <arraybolt3_wc> sweet
[21:44] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: Nice!
[21:44] <kc2bez> maybe tsimonq2
[21:44] <wxl> discourse or github
[21:44] <teward> tsimonq2: ye PPA and translations may need the longer cycle than 3 months for test, but i'll work hopefully before then to get it done.
[21:44] <teward> for weblate.  but it's up to you and the others to populate the strings that need translated
[21:44] <tsimonq2> teward: Let us know how we can help :)
[21:44] <teward> 'cause i won't know them :P
[21:45] <tsimonq2> teward: The only hesitation I have with Weblate is, we've had problem translating the manual in the past
[21:45] <wxl> or wait there are gitea wikis right?
[21:45] <kc2bez> sort of
[21:45] <tsimonq2> wxl: hmmm I think? GitHub wikis make me want to puke
[21:45] <arraybolt3_wc> Gitea wikis> There are but I don't think they support access control
[21:45] <teward> tsimonq2: i don't remember the specifics about that
[21:45] <wxl> i mean we just need a collaborative place to store and organize text really
[21:45] <arraybolt3_wc> I started trying to port over info during Lunar and failed
[21:46] <kc2bez> gitea wikis are a little strange too
[21:46] <teward> i think the core problem was it was never functional at all, I don't know the specifics for translating manual, etc.
[21:46] <tsimonq2> teward: basically it doesn't treat it as one project, each chapter was treated as its own
[21:46] <arraybolt3_wc> wxl: Sounds like a job for a shared Google drive?
[21:46] <kc2bez> ah no
[21:46] <wxl> well discourse certainly supports the whole wiki concept but it's kind of an afterthought
[21:46] <arraybolt3_wc> https://notes.lubuntu.me/huOk59_iRSaAMZDl_my8bw?edit anyone mind if I tear through and edit this to include our list for this cycle?
[21:46] <teward> tsimonq2: i think that was on us, because weblate HAS multiple project capacity but again I haven't worked with it at all.  We could go with thier hosted cloud, etc. but that's not cheap and only gives us 10k strings and one project for 25 euros a month
[21:47] <wxl> soooooooooooo maybe we just keep phab for the wiki and eliminate all the other bs
[21:47] <teward> but again i'll poke and see whats' needed
[21:47] <arraybolt3_wc> If we need to keep Phab we may want to upgrade it to Phorge if that's an option
[21:47] <teward> wxl: Or replace phab with something else for the wikis, a-la Mediawiki or such
[21:47] <teward> arraybolt3: I thought Phorge was not developed either anymore, and has no direct migration path
[21:47] <arraybolt3_wc> Having a publicly accessible out-of-date server up there sounds like a recipe for eventual disaster
[21:47] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: notes> try merging this new list into that :)
[21:48] <wxl> find us some good wiki software, teward, and migrate everything over
[21:48] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: +1, that's what I was going to do
[21:48] <teward> define "good wiki software"
[21:48] <arraybolt3_wc> Phorge sure looks active to me.
[21:48] <teward> and send coffee
[21:48] <tsimonq2> +1 XD
[21:48]  * kc2bez sends coffee
[21:48] <teward> arraybolt3_wc: if you're bored see if Phorge has migration docs for Phab -> Phorge
[21:48] <wxl> good = well maintained softwre that you don't mind admining
[21:48] <tsimonq2> so Jira
[21:48] <tsimonq2> XD
[21:48]  * tsimonq2 ducks
[21:48] <teward> lol no not Jira that shit's evil now
[21:49] <wxl> OHHHH !LANGUAGE LANGUAGE TEWARD"S BAD
[21:49] <arraybolt3_wc> teward: https://we.phorge.it/w/installation_and_setup/update_from_phabricator/
[21:49] <teward> !language | teward
[21:49] <teward> no shush ubottu that was intentinoal
[21:49] <arraybolt3_wc> !language | ubottu
[21:49] <kc2bez> mediawiki is probably solid, I don't think wikipedia is going anywhere
[21:49] <tsimonq2> it's shiznit XD
[21:49] <arraybolt3_wc> mediawiki's syntax makes me want to throw up. On my keyboard.
[21:49] <kc2bez> there is that
[21:49] <teward> arraybolt3_wc: do you have an alternative?
[21:50] <arraybolt3_wc> Phorge :P
[21:50] <teward> the problem is that Markdown flavors are not standard across *any* wiki so
[21:50] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: You basically have to do that anyway just to get it working :P
[21:50] <kc2bez> dokuwiki maybe?
[21:50] <teward> i don't have an issue migrating to Phorge at least for the wiki part
[21:50] <teward> dokuwiki is its own pain
[21:50] <arraybolt3_wc> What I would like is essentially self-hosted Reddit all to ourselves :P but that's obviously not possible
[21:50] <arraybolt3_wc> actually...
[21:50] <arraybolt3_wc> what if we did something like that with Lemmy or some such?
[21:50] <kc2bez> I feel like I have used them all at this point so whatever everyone else likes
[21:50] <wxl> i would like if it were something markdown ish
[21:51] <arraybolt3_wc> It's not Wiki software but it might stand in and work like one.
[21:51] <kc2bez> Lemmy isn't great for a wiki
[21:51] <tsimonq2> +1 on Markdown variant
[21:51]  * kc2bez runs a lemmy server
[21:51] <teward> i'm not writing a platform so pick one that works and stick to that.  Worst case I build Phorge from scratch
[21:51] <teward> but we have a habit of not keeping our documentation up to date there either so
[21:51] <teward> (also we're not using it for git, gitea++)
[21:52] <wxl> seems like phorge is the easy route
[21:52] <teward> ye i'll poke Phorge
[21:52] <kc2bez> I can support that
[21:52] <teward> might clone Phab down and mess with things on my end
[21:52] <wxl> migration should be easy
[21:52] <tsimonq2> uhhhh wait is Phorge now what Phab was?
[21:52] <arraybolt3_wc> I liked Phab's Wiki so that's where my vote is.
[21:52] <arraybolt3_wc> Phorge is a fork / continuation of Phab.
[21:52] <teward> tsimonq2: fork of Phab, continues where KDE / Phab left off
[21:52] <tsimonq2> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh
[21:53] <teward> and no we're not going back to Phab for pull reqs, etc.
[21:53] <teward> we're firmly on pure Git now
[21:53] <tsimonq2> +1
[21:53] <kc2bez> Lol
[21:53] <arraybolt3_wc> +1 on that teward 
[21:53] <tsimonq2> teward: can it still host the SimonsFault image XD
[21:53] <teward> tsimonq2: that's easy i can put that anywhere even on lubuntu.me main site xD
[21:53] <tsimonq2> *sets it as the favicon*
[21:54] <teward> *hardcodes a shutdown code into tsimonq2*
[21:54]  * arraybolt3_wc quickly DDoS's lubuntu.me before that becomes public
[21:54] <kc2bez> I'm nostolgic with phab
[21:54] <kc2bez> Speaking of lubuntu.me is that 100% again?
[21:55] <teward> it's *operational* if that's what you mean
[21:55] <tsimonq2> So, it's still being hosted by mceppi, Canonical's didn't work out apparently
[21:55] <teward> tsimonq2: Canonical wanted a whole special format, theme only, site content only, no plugins, etc.
[21:55] <arraybolt3_wc> That's another thing, we still haven't rewritten the website, and I lost my attempted rewrite :(
[21:55] <wxl> we need to rebuild based on stock wordpress
[21:55] <tsimonq2> I hate WP I hate WP I hate WP I hate WP
[21:55] <wxl> it could be worse
[21:55] <teward> we aren't *stuck* with WP we can go with another platform, so long as we can theme it proper
[21:55] <arraybolt3_wc> It was coming along good too, I don't know if I'll have the bandwidth to do that this cycle.
[21:55] <tsimonq2> Static, Markdown-based rewrite would certainly be preferred. Altispeed even does web hosting, I'm sure they'd help us out
[21:56] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: No worries, that's On The List for Eventually but Please Do
[21:56] <arraybolt3_wc> Markdown and RST aren't great for a nice website front page.
[21:56] <arraybolt3_wc> learned that the hard way when experimenting with Nikola
[21:56] <teward> tsimonq2: last i checked with the god at ALtispeed they said they only were doing you a favor but markdown and RST are poor for front pages
[21:56] <arraybolt3_wc> ended up writing things by hand in HTML
[21:57] <tsimonq2> teward: Noah has since changed his mind on that, we have several Markdown sites
[21:57] <kc2bez> I think our blog posts should be MD though
[21:57] <arraybolt3_wc> agreed
[21:57] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: Markdown converts into HTML for rendering anyway
[21:57] <arraybolt3_wc> Nikola can do an MD blog alongside an HTML site
[21:57] <tsimonq2> So you **can** mix the two in an MD file
[21:57] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: yeah but try embedding SVGs and buttons in nice columns with MD and see how that works out :P
[21:57] <tsimonq2> :P
[21:57] <kc2bez> Yeah still no elementor love on l.me
[21:57] <arraybolt3_wc> oh wait you can mix HTML into MD?
[21:57] <arraybolt3_wc> I didn't know that
[21:58] <wxl> look. how many of us like web design? that's what i thought. wordpress it is.
[21:58]  * arraybolt3_wc likes web design
[21:58] <kc2bez> XDDDDD
[21:58] <tsimonq2> wxl: I hate that you're right. I really hate it. XD
[21:58] <teward> lol
[21:59] <arraybolt3_wc> how many of us hate wordpress bugs and administration? that's what I thought Nikola it is.
[21:59] <teward> we aren't *stuck* on WP we can use an alternative CMS or such, but ye since none of us *like* to do web design.
[21:59] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: Then be our web design guy, unless we can bribe Raf to come back ;)
[21:59] <teward> arraybolt3_wc: fun fact autopatch is a thing and already implemented on the lubuntu.me site
[21:59] <arraybolt3_wc> If I can, I will, but again, can't promise I'll be able to.
[21:59] <tsimonq2> Does anyone have the phone number for Chris Hemsworth? That'll certainly get Raf back :P
[21:59] <arraybolt3_wc> autopatch... not the RPM macro I assume :P
[22:00] <teward> arraybolt3_wc: i don't use the prepackaged deb files for WP core and plugins
[22:00] <teward> they're all done by WP itself with autocron, etc. tasks
[22:00] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3_wc: nah we get annoying^Mhelpful emails about plugins updating and such
[22:00] <kc2bez> I see it patching stuff but it never seems to fix it for me
[22:00] <kc2bez> It could be a "me" problem though
[22:00] <tsimonq2> Anyway, we're at 22 UTC.
[22:00] <tsimonq2> #topic AOB
[22:00] <kc2bez> Fun
[22:00]  * tsimonq2 slaps ubottu with a wet fish
[22:01] <tsimonq2> #meetingtopic AOB
[22:01]  * arraybolt3_wc cleans off ubottu
[22:01] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: try #topic
[22:01] <tsimonq2> bah screw it we all know where to find the dev channel XD
[22:01] <arraybolt3_wc> oh you jsut did
[22:01] <tsimonq2> #endmeeting
[22:01] <arraybolt3_wc> nvm
[22:01] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 22:01:31 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2023/lubuntu-devel.2023-10-19-20.59.moin.txt
[22:01] <arraybolt3_wc> +1
[22:01] <arraybolt3_wc> OK that was fun and exciting!
[22:01] <kc2bez> !cookie ubottu
[22:01] <tsimonq2> teward, arraybolt3_wc, wxl, kc2bez: Thank you all for making it :)
[22:02] <kc2bez> of course
[22:02] <arraybolt3_wc> Glad I could, and really glad I didn't miss it because of my misperception of time
[22:02] <arraybolt3_wc> !botsnack
[22:02] <tsimonq2> Today has been a lazy day, so /me goes AFK
[22:02] <arraybolt3_wc> +1, dogs going nuts so I better get him back inside
[22:02]  * kc2bez needs food
[22:03] <arraybolt3_wc> oh right, food is something we humans do
[22:03] <tsimonq2> yeah I almost forgot too XD
[22:03] <teward> so fyi
[22:04] <teward> i may be migrating our data to an SSD driven server on OVH
[22:04] <teward> got a nice deal for a new bare metal there
[22:04] <teward> or i'll leave it we'll see
[22:05] <arraybolt3_wc> oh awesome
[22:06] <wxl> awesome? we're making it the default wm?
[22:06] <wxl> nothing like writing lua to make configuration a breeze
[22:11] <arraybolt3_wc> wxl: lol
[22:11] <arraybolt3_wc> Lubuntu - Tiling Edition
[22:12] <wxl> there ya go
[22:14] <teward> lol i may move SOME components to a new OVH baremetal but i'm paying for that thing entirely out of pocket, so
[22:14] <teward> that'll be *mine* but i'll dedicate some stuff to Lubuntu for weblate 'cause that needs speed
[22:14] <teward> but until then
[22:14] <teward> *burps*