[01:20] <arraybolt3_wc> Opinion check: should the new Qt-based network manager applet be a single unified applet for both WiFi and Bluetooth, or are the two dissimilar enough that they should be separate applets?
[01:21] <arraybolt3_wc> I think since GNOME and KDE both make them different things they should probably be different applets, but then again the Bluetooth applet is generally used very little and the WiFi applet is used a lot so maybe merging them would give a slightly less cluttered interface?
[01:32] <guiverc> i don't have a preference... am happy for the person doing the work to decide (do-ocracy?)
[01:54] <arraybolt3_wc> If no one else minds, I guess I'll just implement it as two different applets and follow with what GNOME and KDE do then.
[01:54] <arraybolt3_wc> Better to take up a tiny square of extra panel space rather than to cause user confusion :P
[02:18] <arraybolt3_wc> Anyway, setting up a Lubuntu dev VM now.
[02:24]  * arraybolt3_wc loves how you can change the hardware Linux runs on drastically and have everything work, unlike Windows where it probably wouldn't even boot and if it did you'd have wreaked your activation status
[02:25] <arraybolt3_wc> just switched my fresh Lubuntu install from an i440fx VM to a q35 VM and it worked smoothly
[17:40] <arraybolt3_wc> Is it a known bug that the loopback interface is showing up in the list of active connections in the network manager widget for Lubuntu 23.10?
[17:40] <arraybolt3_wc> I'm fairly certain that's not supposed to be there, and I'm guessing something about the Netplan NetworkManager stuff is why it's there now.
[17:42] <arraybolt3_wc> meh, I guess the widget I'm making is going to help solve that :P
[20:27] <arraybolt3_wc> Anyone here have a device that they use with mobile data via a built-in LTE (or whatever) radio?
[20:28] <arraybolt3_wc> Like does anyone use a built-in cellular connection with their laptop?
[20:28] <arraybolt3_wc> I have a few machines that support mobile broadband but I have no clue if that feature works with Linux on any of them and I don't have any mobile data SIM to try it with.
[20:28] <arraybolt3_wc> (except for the one in my hotspot and I can't use that in anything but the hotspot per my ISP's terms of service)
[20:29] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> guiverc might?
[20:29] <arraybolt3_wc> That would be helpful. Anyway, if anyone has something like that, I'd like to grok your hardware so I can see how to implement support for it in the new network manager applet
[20:30] <arraybolt3_wc> (I'm currently mocking up the new app in LibreOffice Impress before trying to build it for real)
[20:34] <arraybolt3_wc> hmm... I'm also realizing that if we have me implement the new network widget, we're going to lose support for enterprise WiFi (802.1x)
[20:35] <arraybolt3_wc> since the only WiFi I have access to is your usual run-of-the-mill PSK thingy
[20:36] <arraybolt3_wc> tsimonq2: How intent are we on replacing the network widget here? I totally get that we want a Qt-native replacement for the existing widget, but I'm beginning to question how practical it is because of the features someone out there is probably using (802.1x, mobile broadband, DSL, VPNs) that I don't have the needed equipment to try and support. I could try to guess at how to do it, but
[20:37] <arraybolt3_wc> chances are I'll guess wrong and then something critical will be broken for everyone... in an LTS.
[20:38] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Well, all you're really doing is implementing a GUI for existing backend components. I would be surprised if the GTK GUI has zero automated testing
[20:38] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Either way, there has to be a way to emulate it somehow
[20:38] <arraybolt3_wc> Valid point.
[20:38] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> I could give you a test VPN no problem
[20:38] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> They're dead simple to set up :)
[20:38] <arraybolt3_wc> I guess I could refer to existing GUI code and see how it's done, but I know from experience that things that just look like a simple GUI layer over existing components have more than meets the eye sometimes.
[20:39] <arraybolt3_wc> Case in point, the GTK NetworkManager has support for "IPv6 shared to other computers", an option you don't find anywhere in nmtui.
[20:39] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> It's worth a check to confirm, isn't it? :)
[20:39] <arraybolt3_wc> Yeah.
[20:39]  * arraybolt3_wc hunts for the code
[20:40] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Maybe it's a library component that the GUI implements but nmtui doesn't yet
[20:40] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> I mean, you'd assume nmtui would implement everything
[20:40] <arraybolt3_wc> That would be nice
[20:40] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> ...but maybe it doesn't :)
[20:41] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Also, that's another point: even if you can't find any automated testing, you could compare the two implementations and check to confirm
[20:41] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Best case scenario: clear API docs with predictable return codes and commented automated testing. A full time day or two
[20:42] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Worst case scenario: wabbit hunting for a week
[20:42] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> wouldnt a usb lte/5g device be a suitable test too?  MOST systems dont have inbuilt WWAN cards
[20:42] <arraybolt3_wc> Found KDE's "NetworkManagerQt", that's going to make things easier.
[20:42] <arraybolt3_wc> teward001: Yeah that should work.
[20:42] <arraybolt3_wc> You have one of those?
[20:43] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/a4f86aaa/huntingwabbits_huntingbuggs.mp4
[20:43] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Time to cross compile Qt for Android XD
[20:44] <arraybolt3_wc> yuck
[20:44] <arraybolt3_wc> no thanks, I probably could but I won't if I can avoid it :P
[20:44] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> only joking on that one :P
[20:45] <arraybolt3_wc> Horrifyingly, that may actually be a good idea though...
[20:46] <arraybolt3_wc> meh, actually, a good idea but not a legal one in my situation - I was thinking "I can use Android Studio to emulate WWAN and then fiddle with that", but I just remembered Android Studio's EULA doesn't let you use it for developing for anything but Android.
[20:46] <arraybolt3_wc> So anyway, back to hunting for source code
[20:48] <arraybolt3_wc> Currently my plan is to try to port KDE's network manager applet to LXQt and then all the backend code will be handled for me :P
[20:48] <arraybolt3_wc> QTerminal is after all a port of Konsole to LXQt so it might work
[20:51] <arraybolt3_wc> We're OK in general with depending on KDE Frameworks that don't require installing Plasma itself or anything, right? I mean LXQt itself even uses Frameworks.
[20:52] <arraybolt3_wc> I ask because I think NetworkManagerQT is a Framework.
[20:52] <arraybolt3_wc> If I can just port plasma-nm, then the whole problem is solved - KDE's already implemented the backend for us so I can just finagle things to work right.
[21:09] <arraybolt3_wc> blah, this looks harder than it's worth
[21:09] <arraybolt3_wc> I guess I'll just use the existing UIs as a guideline and use NetworkManagerQT to implement things (that way I get data types and handy things to keep me from making a bad fumble)
[21:12] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Thanks for your work on this Aaron :) if you knew how many times I've been asked about this, which is a lot, you'd understand that you're moving the needle so far forward here :D
[21:14] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> can get one in a reasonable timeframe (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3_wc> You have one of those?)
[21:15] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> we have a few lying around @ work pretty sure they'll let me borrow one for like ten minutes to test with as a favor
[21:17] <arraybolt3_wc> kk, I'
[21:17] <arraybolt3_wc> I'll try and implement support and then ask you to try things once it's ready to test
[21:29] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> yep happy to also test kernel driver support too i know WWAN drivers are their own pain in kernels so make sure i get one that works xX
[21:33] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> ok just got a note we have them but no SIMs for them because we give out mifis so i cant test.  blah.  sorry arraybolt
[21:34] <arraybolt3_wc> oh well
[21:35] <arraybolt3_wc> well then buy me one along with a data plan and ship them here, otherwise no more virtual coffee from me /s
[21:35] <arraybolt3_wc> (don't actually do that obviously)
[21:35] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> hah
[21:36] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> the problem is gsm/lte adapters thatre dongles are more or less dead in favor of wifi hotspots.  only things that carry onboard WWANs are like tablet PCs nowadays
[21:38] <arraybolt3_wc> I've seen modern-ish laptops with them, but yeah, probably pretty rare
[21:38] <arraybolt3_wc> Hotspots are more flexible anyway
[21:38] <arraybolt3_wc> (modern-ish = Intel Core i5 8th gen)
[23:31] <tsimonq2> upload.ubuntu.com was broken for some reason on Friday, so I didn't get a chance to upload the updated l-u-n SRUs.
[23:31] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: lubuntu-update-notifier (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.5.1~22.04.3 => 0.5.1~22.04.6] (lubuntu)
[23:31] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: lubuntu-update-notifier (mantic-proposed/universe) [0.5.4 => 0.6.2~23.10.1] (lubuntu)
[23:31] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: lubuntu-update-notifier (lunar-proposed/universe) [0.5.4 => 0.6.0~23.04.3] (lubuntu)
[23:32] <tsimonq2> Next on my open source TODO list is responding to sitter's comments regarding plasma-distro-whatever-the-darn-thing-is-called-seriously-erich-why-did-you-make-the-name-even-longer so expect that either tonight or in the morning, depending on my humor after this $dayjob ticket.
[23:32] <tsimonq2> @Eickmeyer: *shots fired* XD
[23:37] <lubot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> Repeat after me. plasma. distro. release. notifier. plasma-distro-release-notifier. I couldn't use distro-release-notifier because that's too generic so had to prepend plasma. You're welcome. :P
[23:38] <lubot> [matrix] <arraybolt3> That's it, I am officially naming the new network applet lubuntu-networking-device-management-suite-including-support-for-wifi-and-ethernet-and-mobile-broadband-suitable-for-use-in-all-qt-based-desktop-environments-but-designed-specifically-for-use-with-the-lubuntu-flavor-of-the-ubuntu-linux-desktop-operating-system-which-is-an-alternative-to-Windows
[23:38] <tsimonq2> XDD
[23:39] <lubot> [matrix] <arraybolt3> It's a test for string length limitations in Launchpad. Gotta do string length tests.
[23:41] <kc2bez> lubuntu-net<TAB>  gotcha
[23:42] <lubot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> Listen, I've had stuff rejected by the AAs for having too generic of a name. (see linuxaudio-new-session-manager which used to be new-session-manager until vorlon saw it)
[23:43] <lubot> [matrix] <arraybolt3> kc2bez: lol, officially the name I was going to assign was network-manager-lubuntu, in keeping with the existing network-manager-gnome naming convention but without making it look like an official LXQt project.
[23:44] <kc2bez> Names are hard. 
[23:44] <lubot> [matrix] <arraybolt3> agreed
[23:45] <lubot> [matrix] <arraybolt3> I oftentimes try to give good descriptive names to variables in my projects, and as a result there are some rather... beefy... variable names in things like Karton :P
[23:56] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> xps 13inch tablet pcs 2in1s can have it but its still rarer nowadays as wifi is more adaptable (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3_wc> I've seen modern-ish laptops with them, but yeah, probably pretty rare)