/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2023/10/29/#ubuntu.txt

bblinkyrbox: I actually agree00:00
bblinkyIt seemed quite convenient tho if WSL would work, tbh win11 had me possitively surprised with a lot of things00:01
bblinkyTo a point where I'm apparently running it on my main laptop now..00:01
bblinky(slowly reconsidering00:01
bblinky000:01
cosmicwonderbblinky: my friend with said he can't help with that, and that it sounds like an ubuntu problem00:03
bblinkyheh, go figure00:04
bblinkyI think it sounds like a WSL problem... But #windows-wsl is like talking to a door00:05
cosmicwonderbblinky: he did say to ask you if the hardware is all right00:05
cosmicwonderyeah i wouldn't join any windows IRC channel00:05
cosmicwonderthey are not helpful at all :p00:05
bblinkycosmicwonder: it's getting a bit hot, now that you ask00:06
cosmicwonderi'll tell Jookia00:06
bblinkyDid you tell him it's inside a WSL instance00:06
cosmicwonderyeah00:07
bblinkyCool00:07
cosmicwonderhe hasn't responded yet but i'll tell you when he does00:10
bblinkyCool cool, so far I think I'll just have to wait (forever) untill apt is done doing it's thing... I'm pretty sure it'll puke pretty bad if I shut the WSL down mid package install00:11
bblinkyiirc00:11
cosmicwonderyeah00:11
Beladonadoes Ubuntu forces users to use snap and has no apt based alternatives? and debian does not forces people to use snap?01:04
enycBeladona: more-or-less aiui but not sure whole story01:05
enycBeladona: e.g. snap for firefox01:05
enycBeladona: derivative linuxmint has deb package firefox via collaboration with mozilla directly, for example.01:05
Beladonaenyc:  what do you mean by aiui?01:09
Beladonaenyc: what if I do not want to use snap to install firefox? Can I still install firefox in ubuntu?01:10
rboxBeladona: there are firefox packages availabie n repos you can enable01:11
enycBeladona: "as i understand it"01:12
enycBeladona: then you need to install another way e.g. flatpak or some deb repository, or use a derivative like mint that does this for you, or so ...01:12
Beladonaenyc:  so I cannot install firefox or other packages just by apt-get install?01:15
Bashing-om!firefox01:17
ubottufirefox is the default web browser on Ubuntu. To install the latest version, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion | To install plugins: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxPlugins01:17
enycBeladona: well you can in so far as ubuntu firefox package installs the snap version01:18
bblinkyI ended up giving up on the ubuntu image since the arch wsl --justworks...01:18
enychttps://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/firefox01:18
bblinkyThanks for the help with troubleshooting tho01:19
Beladonaenyc: 'can'?  or cannot?01:25
enycBeladona: well you gan  apt install firefox,  and their package just then isntalls nthe snap for you :   https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/firefox01:28
cosmicwonderDrone: did you ban anyone?01:29
cosmicwonderi saw the -b mode thingy01:29
ravageYou are talking to a bot01:29
ravageBeladona: if you are allergic to snaps Ubuntu is not for you01:30
Beladonaravage:  ok, can you tell what is the key difference between ubuntu and debian regarding snaps01:32
ravageDebian does not come with snaps preinstalled01:32
cosmicwonderravage: thanks01:33
cosmicwonderravage: i kinda figured that01:33
Beladonaravage: so ubuntu uses snaps preinstalled but I can choose NOT to use snaps ever and STILL get all debian based packages installed?01:38
rboxBeladona: you can install whatever packages you want... but utubnut doesnt ship with any .deb files for firefox in it01:38
ravageYou can of course choose not to use snaps01:38
Beladonarbox: ravage: ok but01:40
rboxno but01:40
Beladona STILL get all debian based packages installed?01:40
rboxyou can install wahtever packges you want01:40
Beladonaok so in short, there is always a snap -alternative present? and I don't have to use snap?01:41
donotavioHello!01:41
donotavioI need help with my login; I lost my 2FA.01:41
donotavioIs anyone from Brazil?01:41
rboxno01:41
rboxyou dont read do you?01:41
rbox"... but ubuntu doesn't ship with any .deb files for firefox ..."01:41
Beladonathat is the question. Being shipped with and "able to install later with deb" is different. You don't concentrate on questions, do you?01:41
rboxit doenst come with it, but you can install wahtgever you want01:42
rboxits not rocket science01:42
Beladonathat was the question,01:42
Beladona"can all be installed later as deb and not snap"01:42
Beladonaif answer is yes, that ok01:42
rboxyou have to get the debs from elsewher01:42
rboxbecause as i said01:42
rboxyou can install wahtever yo uwant01:42
ravage!br | donotavio01:43
ubottudonotavio: Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em português. Para entrar no canal por favor faça "/join #ubuntu-br" sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguêsa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigada.01:43
Beladonaelsewher? what is that?01:43
rboxnot the ubuntu repos01:43
ravageand this room does not support any installation from 3rd party repos. so you have to figure that out yourself01:43
Beladonaoh, what might be the other reps for exmple?01:43
Beladonadebian reps?01:43
rboxsure, if you want to break your system01:44
rboxgo for it01:44
Beladonaoh01:44
donotavioravage como poso recuperar meu 2Fa?01:44
Beladonathen the 3rd party repos will break too01:44
ravageenglish only01:44
rboxits possible01:44
rboxlike ravage said, not supported01:44
Beladonarbox: it means ubuntu does not have support for all deb based apps and forces users to install most via snap?01:44
Beladonaand that is not the case with debian?01:44
* rbox ignores the troll01:45
BeladonaI am not a fan of either but trying to understand01:45
* Beladona ignores the idiot01:45
rboxgo troll somewhere else01:45
Beladonago behave elsewhere01:45
Beladonathanks by the way, appreciated :)01:45
ravagei think we gave all support relevant information. if you want to discuss use other rooms like #ubuntu-discuss01:46
donotavioravage I need help with my login, I lost my 2FA. How can I recover access to my account?01:47
ravagedonotavio: i have no idea what login you are talking about01:47
donotavioravage: https://login.ubuntu.com/+login01:49
ravagedonotavio: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSO/FAQs/2FactorAuthentication#I_got_locked_out_of_my_account.__What_should_I_do.3F01:51
ravagebut the short answer is: if you lost all your 2fa devices and dont have any backup codes the account is los01:53
ravaget01:53
donotavioMy God!02:03
donotavioOK. Thank you ravage.02:03
bobdobbsHi all. I've placed a new 1TB SSD into my rig. After booting I can see it with gparted. So now I want to put a filesystem onto it. If I right-click and select 'new', I'm told tht the disc needs a partition table. So I do 'device'->'create partition table'...02:12
bobdobbsI'm given a choice of partition table types. The default is msdos.02:12
bobdobbsWhich type is the most appropriate?02:12
rboxgpt02:13
bobdobbswhat exactly are partition table types?02:13
bobdobbsrbox: thanks :)02:13
arraybolt3MSDOS and GPT partition labels are just two different ways of organizing partitions on a device.02:13
arraybolt3Of the two, GPT is superior as it allows more than four partitions and supports devices larger than 2 TB.02:14
bobdobbsI see02:14
bobdobbsthank you02:14
arraybolt3(Technically MSDOS tables can support more than 4 partitions but it requires a weird workaround called a "logical partition" and it's generally easier to just use GPT in those instances. Even if that's not a concern here, it's easier to just always use GPT - it's less likely to get you in a weird situation.)02:15
bobdobbsarraybolt3: I think I remember logical partitions.02:16
bobdobbsare they not really cool anymore?02:16
dTalwhy can't we just skip the whole partition table silliness and format a filesystem directly on the device?02:16
arraybolt3dTal: Actually you can :)02:16
dTalI mean I know you can technically, the tools will do it for you02:16
arraybolt3But when the day comes you want to put two filesystems on that drive, you'll be sorry you did.02:16
dTalbut surely things break02:16
arraybolt3I've formatted drives "monolithic" like that and it works just fine with Linux and even with Windows IIRC... but when you want to add a second partition things get very messy very fast.02:17
arraybolt3Learned that the hard way.02:17
rboxdTal: whats going to "break"02:17
arraybolt3bobdobbs: Meh, they work still, but there's some gotchas.02:17
dTalidk, any software which assumes a partition table, which I imagine is most things that touch a disk in some way02:18
arraybolt3dTal: That's true. Someone nuked their drive in r/DataHoarder the other day because of that.02:18
arraybolt3Windows' Disk Management utility saw it as a "raw" drive and they reformatted it :(02:18
rboxdTal: like what02:18
bobdobbsk, my next step is to make my system mount the drive automatically on boot. I've made the dir '/mnt/media/ssd'. I seem to remember having to manually edit /etc/fstab to get automatic mounting. Does ubuntu give me a more high-level way to do this?02:18
rboxbobdobbs: what is "more high level"02:19
arraybolt3But as far as the filesystem functioning properly, filesystems can be thrown right onto a drive with no partition table without issues. You just run the risk of having a partition manager like Disk Management telling you your drive is empty, and you'll have troubles adding new partitions.02:19
arraybolt3bobdobbs: There's not really a way to set partition automount without using fstab that I know of.02:20
arraybolt3If there is a way, I'm not aware of it.02:20
bobdobbsrbox: like, some gui tool that does the fstab editing for me. Hopefully reading my mind or something.02:20
rboxrofl02:20
rboxits that hard to type in the uuid and the mount point?02:20
arraybolt3fstab isn't that hard to edit though, just make sure to specify "nofail" for the partition so that systemd doesn't fail to boot your system if the drive isn't available.02:20
* bobdobbs picks up mouse and says 'computer' into it, in scottish accent02:20
arraybolt3rbox: Hey, some people prefer nice frontends, me included :P02:20
arraybolt3bobdobbs: 🤣02:21
bobdobbsarraybolt3: I'm glad someone got that02:21
arraybolt3"Just use the keyboard."02:21
arraybolt3I watched that movie more times than I care to admit. I've since stopped watching movies for the sake of mental health though.02:21
bobdobbsarraybolt3: I swear, that is a forgotten classic nerd scene02:21
bobdobbsk, this is my fstab entry https://hastebin.com/share/rufumaxuke.ini02:31
arraybolt3"We're sorry, but the contents of the bin could not be found, or it has been deleted."02:33
arraybolt3bobdobbs: ^02:33
arraybolt3wrong link?02:33
bobdobbssorry, technical issues. I'm now locked out of hastebin02:33
bobdobbsand ubuntu's pastebin too, aparently02:33
bobdobbshunting for a pastebin service I can use02:34
bobdobbshttps://pastebin.com/pmPrV4RZ02:35
bobdobbsdammit. That only included part of my paste.02:35
bobdobbsI am having a bad pastebin day02:35
bobdobbshttps://pastebin.com/P0GyLQ1R02:36
bobdobbs"target specified more than once" is wierd. There are no duplicate entries in the fstab02:37
arraybolt3I don't think ext is a filesystem.02:37
arraybolt3Pretty sure you meant ext4?02:38
bobdobbsoh yes. I did mean that02:38
arraybolt3Also what does the full fstab look like?02:38
bobdobbsdarn ubuntu. not reading my mind02:38
bobdobbsFull fstab now: https://pastebin.com/jcUxRBcb02:39
bobdobbsI'm still getting that same error02:39
bobdobbsThe error makes me think that I've provided the wrong UUID. But that's the UUID that I get for sdc from the command 'blkid /dev/sdc'02:39
arraybolt3Try changing "defaults" to "defaults,nofail"02:39
arraybolt3It does seem like you may have a wrong UUID though...02:40
arraybolt3ah, target specified more than once is an unrelated error02:40
arraybolt3because you have two swap partitions02:41
arraybolt3and it sees them as having the same "mountpoint"02:41
bobdobbshuh. I have no idea why I have two swap paritions02:41
bobdobbscould blkid be giving me the wrong uuid? I know that sounds weird02:41
arraybolt3Maybe.02:42
arraybolt3I think there's two different UUIDs, one for the partition and one for the filesystem.02:42
arraybolt3You want the filesystem one if I'm understanding correctly.02:42
bobdobbsHow do I get that?02:42
arraybolt3Grab the one that starts "UUID" rather than "PARTUUID"02:42
arraybolt3for instance blkid for me has this line:02:43
arraybolt3 /dev/nvme0n1p3: UUID="fd489347-a18b-424d-a6a5-fccfc04e725e" TYPE="crypto_LUKS" PARTUUID="a5313721-8e7a-4e16-9db3-69c3adb26445"02:43
arraybolt3you'd want the first UUID not the second one02:43
bobdobbsah02:43
arraybolt3Also I would put your drive at /mnt/mantis/sdd2 rather than /media/mantis/sdd202:43
arraybolt3I'm not sure if /media/mantis is always guaranteed to exist02:43
bobdobbsok, got it. Now my fstab passes the test (other than for the warning"02:44
matsamanI think at some point 'sdd2' is going to be more confusing than helpful02:44
arraybolt3since udisks might delete it. Whereas if you make /mnt/mantis, it will always be there.02:44
matsamangive the FS a LABEL, use that02:44
arraybolt3matsaman: good idea02:44
bobdobbsfirst things first. Lunch and then a nap02:44
arraybolt3sounds like a good idea :)02:44
matsaman'sdd' isn't goint to be the most guaranteed moniker02:44
arraybolt3really do add nofail to that fstab line though, the day that drive isn't plugged in and you reboot will be a frustrating day otherwise02:45
arraybolt3systemd will refuse to boot a system if it can't mount every drive listed in fstab unless you mark them "nofail" if I'm understanding correctly, there might be other ways of marking a drive optional but nofail should work02:45
matsamansystemd =P02:46
=== chris14_ is now known as chris14
davidc03:33
davisalvd03:33
davixssaalve03:33
davisalve03:35
BeladonaIs there an app to handle multiple text copy paste in clip board. Ie dividing clipboard to have multiple items in it04:07
tomreynprobably some gnome extension04:12
tomreyn"pano" and "gpaste" seem to be some04:13
tomreynalso "clipboard indicator"04:15
matsaman'clipboard manager'04:27
Beladonatomreyn:  matsaman:  ok04:41
tomreynBeladona: ok04:42
ice9managing security devices in firefox from snap doesn't work, any work around or other tools to do that?04:46
matsamandon't use snap04:48
matsamanwhy would you04:48
tomreynice9: i'm pretty sure i saw a bug report filed about this on mozillas bugtracker05:11
ice9tomreyn, there is but, it's not fixed yet05:12
ice9are there other tools to manage security keys?05:12
tomreynand no workaround either?05:12
tomreynice9: you seem to be asking the same question on #ubuntu and #debian, which one are you using?05:13
ice9tomreyn, some said to allow /usr/lib/....so for the snap and apparmor or copy the .so file into the snap dir; I tried the later but didn't work05:14
ice9tomreyn, i'm using now ubuntu but my question in #debian about tools to manage security devices in general, not the snap issue I asked here!05:14
tomreyni see05:14
tomreynice9: you can use the deb builds instead: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1399383/how-to-install-firefox-as-a-traditional-deb-package-without-snap-in-ubuntu-2205:18
dervish77newprotn05:29
BeladonaDoes ubuntu pulls from unstable branches of debian?05:57
BeladonaI heard it from matsaman06:00
matsamanBeladona: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/28324/how-is-ubuntu-based-on-debian06:00
ice9how to force apt to install a package from apt sources, not snap?06:00
BeladonaSo, Ubuntu gets to maintain its own core set of packages and also get the benefit of the huge quantity of Debian packages.06:02
matsamanBeladona: yeah there are actually tons of distros that do this with Debian06:03
Beladonabut where does it says that ubuntu uses usntable things from deb06:03
matsamanBeladona: I'm not sure where the best place to get that information from is, but it's all over06:06
matsamanhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers#Why_does_Ubuntu_have_an_older.2Fbuggy_version_of_my_package.3F06:06
matsamanyou could also, for example, compare Ubuntu contemporary package versions to Debian stable, testing, & unstable versions06:07
matsamanand you'll see which match up the most06:07
matsamanDebian stable doesn't make a great desktop, because the more popular desktop-oriented packages are somewhat outdated due to the stabilization process06:10
matsamanand most desktop users are very stuck on the latest popular software06:11
=== superuser is now known as Mate
Beladonamatsaman:  I see. any examples on which apps are not on latest position in debian?07:06
toddc!latest | Beladona07:08
ubottuBeladona: Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.07:08
matsamanBeladona: Debian has a stable, testing, unstable setup. In reverse order of latest-ness07:09
Beladonaok07:10
elias_aBeladona: Your question is quite difficult to answer as there are so many applications in both distibutions, Ubuntu and Debian.07:10
elias_aBeladona: Better check out yourself whether your needs are fulfilled.07:10
elias_aBeladona: For easy testing I recommend running the selected OS in a virtual machine. VirtualBox works very well in my opinion.07:12
elias_aBeladona: The good side of Debian is that the technical tools used by developers and technical users are very much up to date. Other sw might lag behind as already said.07:14
Beladonalike?07:15
elias_aSpeaking of Ubuntu, I noticed a few weeks ago that latest Ubuntu LTS has quite old version of nodejs and I chose to upgrade to non LTS to get a certain sw to work.07:17
Beladonamatsaman:  elias_a:  heres my stack: postgres, awesomewm, vlc, brave, chrome, firefox, kdenlive, audacity, zfs stuff, fish, wacom tablet pen, xournalpp07:17
Beladonanodejs, typescript07:17
Beladonabut I can use nvm for nodejs verions07:17
Beladonaoh and neovim07:18
elias_aBeladona: In my case various audio and music sw like Musescore used for writing sheet music.07:18
matsamanneat07:18
Beladonaelias_a:  matsaman:  I won't be able  to use LTS in either distro as postgres 15 for example is not on LTS on either. I need 1507:18
Beladonamatsaman: who?07:19
matsamannode is going to be one of those JS ecosystem things that will be hard for package managers to keep up with, on any distro07:19
Beladonamatsaman:  use nvm. node version manager07:19
BeladonaIs the systemd same in debian?07:19
elias_aBeladona: Why don't you check your requirements against the versions different distros have? That information is obtainable without installing.07:20
toddcnon issue if you use containers or snaps or---07:20
Beladonaelias_a: ok07:20
matsamanBeladona: I think stable has 1507:21
matsamanDebian stable07:21
Beladonayes07:21
Beladonaubuntu too07:21
Beladonamatsaman:  but both LTS veriosn do not have 1507:21
matsamanBeladona: Debian stable is as stable as it gets on Debian07:21
elias_aLTS too?07:21
matsamanLTS is an Ubuntu thing07:21
matsamanit's not more stable, it's just longer supported07:22
Beladonaoh07:22
elias_aDebian stable means roughly the same as Ubuntu LTS.07:22
matsamanelias_a: nope07:22
elias_amatsaman: How does it differ in your opinion?07:22
Beladonamatsaman:  debian stable == debian LTS?07:22
matsamanit's not a matter of opinion07:23
matsamanBeladona: no07:23
elias_aTell me.07:23
matsamanDebian stable is more stable, Ubuntu LTS is an ordinary Ubuntu release that is supported for more years than some other Ubuntu releases07:23
matsamanan Ubuntu LTS version is just as unstable as any other when it's released07:23
Beladonamatsaman:  what is bookworm?07:23
matsamanBeladona: latest Debian stable, IIRC07:23
matsamanversion 1207:23
elias_amatsaman: In both cases the aim is to get a version more stable AFAIK. At least for Debian that is.07:27
matsamanelias_a: yes in _only_ the Debian case, which is not both07:27
elias_amatsaman: Ubuntu is also releasing updates to LTSs. What is that if not increaseing stability and reliability?07:28
matsamanelias_a: you could say it is, but it's still not equivalent to Debian stable07:28
Beladonamatsaman:  what version of debian is non-stable then?07:29
matsamanbecause Debian stable is already stable at the outset, and Ubuntu, it has no stable branch07:29
matsamanBeladona: it has stable, testing, and unstable07:29
elias_amatsaman: At least the process is very different. In the case of Debian it is very well documented after very, very long discussions... :D07:29
matsamanUbuntu has only one (which is from non-stable Debian)07:29
matsamanelias_a: I'm sure07:29
Beladonamatsaman:  oh ok you mentioend it, I missed07:30
Beladonamatsaman:  the only problem it seems is I want to maek base OS on zfs. debian do not give that option07:30
matsamanit might be more effort on your part, yeah07:30
matsamanto do that07:30
Beladonaif systemd is same on debian and ubuntu and the apps I mentioend above are in both debian and ubuntu on somewhat same latest condition, then debian is the obvious choice07:30
elias_amatsaman: Me too as I've been involved as a localization dude of my country. :P07:30
matsamanbut like I said in #linux, if you're used to Ubuntu, there is no shame in sticking with it07:31
matsamanDebian is the obvious choice if you want better security & stability07:31
Beladonamatsaman: if I even get 10% more stability and performance, debian is worth trying. if not, the ubuntu07:31
matsaman👍07:31
Beladonamatsaman:  not sure what % you observed07:32
Beladonamatsaman:  what was your experience in both ubuntu and debian practically?07:32
matsamanit's hard to take any derivative distro very seriously07:33
matsamanthe extras that Ubuntu pushes in particular I do not care for07:33
matsamanit has got a lot of new linux users into the world, that is nice07:33
Beladonawhat extrra?07:33
arraybolt3Just a note, I object slightly to the idea that Debian is better in the security realm. They rely on a maintainer system that is very efficient as far as getting lots of packages maintained and taken care of, but their systems are not exactly ideal for security. Stability, sure, but security, not always.07:33
arraybolt3Case in point, if a new version of Firefox ESR comes out and something about it is broken when it tries to be installed, it will get held back even if it fixes security issues. One time that happened for a month, meaning a month of users using a known-flawed browser.07:34
arraybolt3!ping07:34
ubottupong!07:34
arraybolt3oh now it works07:35
arraybolt3(irc client hung up for a bit)07:35
arraybolt3For security, Ubuntu is somewhat better at "making things happen" when security updates come out, so I would choose it over Debian in a security-critical environment in most instances.07:35
arraybolt3There are some times where Debian's security *may* be superior to Ubuntu's, namely when you have to work with a package that happens to be in Ubuntu's Universe repository. However for many core packages (browser, kernel, etc.), Ubuntu's security is superior from what I understand.07:36
BeladonaI am also not a fan of ext4. zfs floats my boat. system crashs makes ext4 corrupt07:37
Beladonaalso, builtin raid of zfs is good07:37
BeladonaI always wished if I had flexibility in freebsd07:37
Beladonamatsaman:  did you tried freebsd? It has soo less user supprt07:41
matsamanarraybolt3: are you comparing Debian stable with Ubuntu there, or Debian testing or unstable?07:41
matsamanBeladona: yes07:42
Beladonamatsaman:  yes on both?07:42
matsamanI don't know, there's a freebsd channel around here somewhere07:42
matsamanBeladona: both?07:42
Beladonamatsaman:  am.. nevermind, what was your experience with freebsd?07:43
arraybolt3matsaman: Debian Stable vs Ubuntu.07:43
matsamanBeladona: it's like the Debian of BSDs, very similar installation feel07:43
matsamanarraybolt3: which is the silly comparison so many people make07:43
matsamanyou have to compare Ubuntu to unstable Debian07:43
matsamanbecause that's what it is07:43
arraybolt3matsaman: Not as silly as you might think. I actually help(ed) develop both.07:43
arraybolt3Yes, Ubuntu is based on Sid.07:44
matsamanit's just that silly07:44
arraybolt3However, Sid is not used as a desktop OS for most people.07:44
matsamanif it's based on sid you compare it to sid07:44
arraybolt3Most people who use Debian use Debian Stable.07:44
arraybolt3Most people who use Ubuntu use Ubuntu Desktop.07:44
Beladonawhats sid?07:44
matsamanlike I said, Ubuntu has no stable branch, so comparing it to a stable branch is apples & oranges07:44
matsamanBeladona: code name for Debian unstable07:44
arraybolt3Beladona: The easily broken development rolling release of Debian.07:44
arraybolt3matsaman: Philosophically, sure, but I'm talking practically.07:44
Beladonaoh.. ubuntu is debian sid?07:44
arraybolt3Beladona: Not exactly.07:45
arraybolt3Ubuntu is *based on* Debian Sid, but the two are distinct (very distinct, in fact).07:45
BeladonaI mean based on07:45
Beladonaok07:45
Beladonagot it07:45
matsamanarraybolt3: it's practical but pointless, like comparing the modernity of a model T to a ford fiesta clone07:46
arraybolt3Not pointless if you care about not getting hacked :P07:46
CosmicDJwhat? it's based on Sid? The launchpad page says it's based on Bullseye https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/mantic07:46
matsamanif you cared about getting hacked on a server, you wouldn't have Firefox installed07:46
arraybolt3I don't expect to convince you, but I do think you should consider whether your advise could land someone in a bad situation.07:46
arraybolt3CosmicDJ: LP is known for being notoriously out of date :P07:46
arraybolt3for some of its info07:47
matsamanpackages like Firefox rarely have their very latest builds available on any distro anyway07:47
matsamanUbuntu doesn't offer an ordinary package of Firefox's latest stable, for example07:48
arraybolt3sigh. I really want to believe that you just aren't getting my point, but I'm having a hard time doing that. The chances of getting hacked from an outdated dependency in many environments is relatively slim, so I'll abandon the conversation for now, but if you say Debian Stable has better security than Ubuntu LTS to someone in a security-sensitive07:49
arraybolt3situation, you may be giving them bad advice. Just sayin'. Like telling someone to use Arch rather than Ubuntu in a reliability-critical situation. Sure it *can* be reliable if you're super careful, but out of the box it sure isn't.07:49
matsamanDebian unstable does have the latest version07:49
matsamanI'm not getting your point, 'cause it's silly07:49
matsamanwhat do you mean "out of the box"? Are you comparing distro install processes now?07:50
matsamanthese comparisons are completely, utterly apples & oranges07:50
arraybolt3"Out of the box" = using only what the distro provides by default, e.g. default repos, default settings, etc.07:51
arraybolt3It appears that everything I say that can be misunderstood is being misunderstood.07:52
elias_aarraybolt3: Very good point!07:52
elias_aarraybolt3: Both of them. :P07:52
matsamannot really, I didn't mention Arch at all, and the number of weasel words are, well, high07:53
matsamanstick to reality, it's easier07:53
arraybolt3matsaman: Stick to friendliness, it's easier.07:54
arraybolt3!coc | matsaman07:54
ubottumatsaman: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is the document that spells out etiquette in the Ubuntu community | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv07:54
matsamanarraybolt3: hey now, calling someone unfriendly isn't very friendly07:54
arraybolt3matsaman: Realistically and objectively, Debian Stable does not always ship security updates in a timely fashion. Ubuntu does. Both are used as both desktop and server systems in near-identical use cases. The fact that they have operational differences under the hood is mostly irrelevant. That's how I'm comparing them.07:55
matsamanwe've already been through this07:55
matsamanyou are comparing Debian stable to Ubuntu unstable, it's pointless07:55
arraybolt3And telling someone that their saying someone's been unfriendly is itself unfriendly is a known manipulation tactic :P07:55
arraybolt3matsaman: lol, what? I said Debian Stable vs Ubuntu LTS.07:55
matsamanarraybolt3: is it? Then you can link me to it listed on the known manipulation tactics list07:55
matsamanUbuntu LTS is not more stable than anything else at time of release07:56
arraybolt3Again, everything I say that can be misunderstood is being misunderstood.07:56
matsamanmmmhmmm07:57
Beladonawhat was the conclusion?08:09
matsamanBeladona: to what?08:09
arraybolt3If you mean to the argument above, there wasn't one. We both just sort of burned out :P08:10
Beladonaok08:10
Beladona:)08:10
Beladonafor now matsaman , I am surviving with freebsd having debian guest via virtualbox inside it08:11
matsamanI'm sure you'll be fine either way08:12
BeladonaI hope. but very weired errors on wacom and dependancies like luajit etc on freebsd08:27
Beladonafreebsd ride was rollercoaster mateus-morais08:27
Beladonamatsaman *08:28
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w13netlist11:57
BluesKajHi all12:54
p0indexterhi12:55
spinningCathey14:14
spinningCatubuntu cannot find my bluetooth headphone can someone help me about this?14:14
ph88i'm on 22.04 can i set my DNS server with the user interface?14:19
ravageph88: yes14:20
ph88i think i found it, i was looking under network. but i had to look under wifi14:20
ph88is there a way to set the DNS server for all networks ?14:20
ravagedns is managed by interface in ubuntu14:21
ph88how can i check whether my new dns is into effect ? do i need to restart ?14:21
ravageif you want to change the global setting you need the command line14:21
ravagesudo resolvectl14:22
ravageit shows all dns servers for all interfaces. it also shows what manages the global setting14:23
ravageusually "resolv.conf mode: stub"14:23
ph88thanks ravage !14:24
=== jfsimon1981_b is now known as jfsimon
ph88does someone know software that will block websites on a schedule ?14:25
ph88hmm seems a browser extension might be more useful here14:30
toddcph88: their are many ways but I do it router side IPfire or PFsense or others14:31
ph88IPfire or PFsense .. do you use hardware for that? a router?14:32
toddcph88: old desktop with 2 nicks or can be in vm14:32
toddchttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_router_and_firewall_distributions14:35
toddctheir are also guides to build you own using ubuntu or ?? if you want do it your self14:36
toddcph88: DansGuardian may aslo work on a single machine for that too14:37
vcxzahello. I can't install wine with apt. "E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/systemd/libsystemd0_249.11-0ubuntu3.9_i386.deb  404  Not Found [IP: 185.125.190.36 80] ". How can I solve this? thanks14:45
uwu_linux_openbssudo apt update14:45
vcxzauwu_linux_openbs: thanks14:48
manwhowouldbekinGreetings! I have got my Ubuntu 22.04 machine in the following state. How can I proceed to fix it? https://pastebin.com/Axtw1neV14:52
ravagemanwhowouldbekin: apt policy emacs26-common14:56
uwu_linux_openbssudo apt autopurge14:56
ravageemacs26-common is not in the 22.04 repos14:57
ravageso you installed a 3rd party package. remove it and try again14:57
ravagehttps://github.com/ericj112/ppa-tool/blob/master/ppa-tool.sh can be helpful14:58
manwhowouldbekin@ravage, https://pastebin.com/BCacCuba14:58
leftyfbravage: why would you recommend that over ppa-purge which is a package available in ubuntu?14:59
ravagei cant see emacs26-common in ubuntu14:59
manwhowouldbekin@uwu_linux_openbs, That command does not work either.15:00
leftyfbmanwhowouldbekin: sudo apt remove emacs26-common15:00
manwhowouldbekinleftyfb, Please see the latest paste. I have tried that. Gives same error.15:00
leftyfbmanwhowouldbekin: sudo apt remove --autoremove emacs*15:00
manwhowouldbekinleftyfb, Same issue persists afterwards.15:01
leftyfbmanwhowouldbekin: sudo apt remove --purge emacs-common emacs26-common emacs emacs-bin-common emacs-el emacs-gtk15:03
manwhowouldbekinleftyfb, Ok, thanks, that seems to have done it.15:04
user44Yo16:15
LuckyManhi. How do I acess snap permissions on the new store?16:25
LuckyMani want to give an app removable media permission so it can read my other disks and I can't16:28
vcxzais there a command line translator which uses google's translator?16:30
CosmicDJvcxza: like https://packages.ubuntu.com/mantic/translate-shell ?16:34
LuckyManI did it reading the snap documentation. Thanks16:35
vcxzathanks16:40
vcxzaCosmicDJ: ^16:40
NewtonPumpkinwhat if we set up an ubuntu business platform, where ubuntu sets up profitable businesses using its userbase but the profit goes back into ubuntu and making software oss17:14
NewtonPumpkinlike you can test a business model in funded but anyone can see what your logic was17:15
ravageNewtonPumpkin: this is a support channel. if you want to discuss Ubuntu use #ubuntu-discuss17:15
NewtonPumpkinah, thanks for the pointer17:16
Phoenix1789Hi all !17:51
arraybolt3Welp, I have made a rather hilarious mistake.17:58
arraybolt3When exactly does `mv` delete files if you're moving them from one drive to another?17:58
arraybolt3Does it delete things "as it goes", or does it do all the deletion at the end of the operation, once everything's copied?17:58
arraybolt3Asking because I did a `mv ~/ISOs /ezstore/` to try to move all my ISO files to my external drive, then ran a system update that asked to reboot the computer. I forgot I was mid-ISO-move, and rebooted.17:59
oerheksi think after successful copy?18:00
rboxarraybolt3: you can add -v to mv and it shows what its doing18:01
arraybolt3This is "post-mortem" though. I already have an interrupted move and am trying to work out how to recover.18:02
rboxwell you can create a test file and mv it...18:02
arraybolt3I guess I could try a move to see what happens though.18:02
arraybolt3Looks like it does all the moving of things at the end.18:03
arraybolt3all the deleting of things I mean18:06
arraybolt3so I just nuked the incomplete move and am redoing it.18:06
=== PowaBanga_ is now known as PowaBanga
arraybolt3rbox: Thanks, I didn't know about the -v switch.18:11
commentiamolaciao18:18
commentiamolachi chatta?18:18
=== luke_ is now known as Zoob
iconoclastheroUbuntu 22.04.3 LTS x86_64 6.2.0-35-generic19:03
iconoclastheroall of a sudden, i am no longer able to access this desktop/server from e.g., https://whatever.myhost.com or for icecast http://icecast.myhost.com:port/mpd96.opus or http://##.###.##.###:port.19:03
iconoclastheroso it isn't the way cloud flare is set up.19:04
iconoclastheroi can access these services locally using the local ip address 192.168.1.219:04
iconoclastherolocalhost, etc.19:04
iconoclastherobut when I tried to reset the router, chrome timed out getting to it, but I was able to access and reset it from my phone19:05
iconoclastherohaven't logged into it in a while so nothing's changed there.19:06
mrlinuxnerdtaking a m2 SSD from one laptop to another, all working fine before switching, the other laptop says "2101 detection error" Is there a way to access the disc even though fdisk -l does not show it?19:06
mrlinuxnerdWHICH IS weird since both laptops are the same brand AND SAME MODEL19:07
iconoclastheroi'm running an nginx reverse proxy to get to (mainly) audiobookshelf, but ssh and mosh aren't working either.19:07
iconoclastheroufw is disabled.19:08
iconoclastheronothing appreciable changed since last night when it was working.19:08
iconoclastheromrlinux, do the laptops have the same bios version?19:09
iconoclastheroI don't have any idea why that would cause the problem, but if they're the same model, maybe that is *A* difference19:09
mrlinuxnerdiconoclasthero: yes model and same BIOS version. The disc is encrypted.19:11
iconoclastherowell that's pretty important I would think19:12
iconoclastheroI won't bore you with the whole story, but is the plug in?19:13
iconoclastheroi.e., the contacts on the drive are clean and all that good stuff?19:13
iconoclastheroI tried to ssh from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.2 and I got this error: WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!19:15
iconoclastheroIt is also possible that a host key has just been changed.19:16
iconoclastheroand that is possible, i might have done something with that.19:16
mrlinuxnerdyes, everything is clean and powercycle before and after etc.19:17
iconoclastheroI would see if the encryption is tied to the serial number of the machine.19:18
iconoclastheroor something like that.19:18
iconoclastherobind9/named is spitting this out Oct 29 14:51:37 server named[1226]: creating TCP socket: address in use19:20
iconoclastheroOct 29 14:51:37 server named[1226]: invalid command from 127.0.0.1#42325: bad auth19:20
iconoclastherowell i disabled ipv6 and the error in bind9/named went away,19:30
BlackNoirHi guys. I'm new to Linux OS or Ubuntu. Any tips for beginner?19:31
cosmicwonderBlackNoir: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-tips-for-new-Linux-Ubuntu-users19:32
BlackNoircosmicwonder: Thanks.19:33
cosmicwonderheres a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=lmeDvSgN6zY&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dubuntu%26channel%3Dfs%26q%3Dubuntu%2Blinux%2Bbeginner%2Btips%26ie%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo19:33
cosmicwonderthat was titled Ubuntu Beginner's Guide, looked helpful19:33
iconoclastheroblacknoir: get familiar with the command line19:34
cosmicwonderBlackNoir: i hope you love linux/ubuntu! linux is the only way to go imo'19:34
cosmicwonderyes definitely learn the command line19:34
iconoclastherohowever you find your way into that, i.e., videos or whatever, that really is the secret to linux.19:35
cosmicwonderoh and BlackNoir, there's another channel you should check out: #linux. i'm on there and it's the linux support IRC channel19:35
mrlinuxnerdiconoclasthero: perhaps, but I don't think it is. Anyhow, I'll try with an external mount via USB to se if I can shred and format it as ext419:35
BlackNoirYeah I just joined there, thanks cosmicwonder19:36
cosmicwondernp19:36
BlackNoiriconoclasthero: Yeah but I need the fundamentals to know to get a grasp on its system i'll try to find some books for it19:37
iconoclastherolike i said, however you find your way into it.19:37
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Guest37join ft4220:16
=== keypushe- is now known as keypusher
ueberallHi. If "file" identifies a library/binary as "ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked", can I be *sure* that it can run on an actual Intel 80386 and does not include code that requires an i486/i586 cpu? I'm asking because binutils (and some other packages) have "i686" in their name and in the paste, distributions like Mandrake/Mandriva explicitly compiled their binaries optimized for the i586. Is there an21:07
ueberallauthoritative explanation regarding the naming somewhere?21:07
ueberalls /paste/past/21:08
hellscapeddude i've been partitioning this drive for like 15 minutes now how long does it take to create 1 ext2 drive???21:09
hellscaped2 tb btw21:09
cosmicwonderit's gonna take a little longer hellscaped21:09
cosmicwonderlike 30 minutes at least21:09
hellscapedjesus21:09
leftyfbhellscaped: ext2?21:10
Habbiewhat, why would that take so long21:10
iconoclasthero^ +121:11
iconoclastheroare you moving an existing partition?21:11
hellscapedyea ext221:12
hellscapedits a hard drive not an ssd btw21:13
iconoclastheroif you're moving data it takes a while.21:13
Habbieah, right21:13
hellscapedI used to use it back years ago when I used windows so it was ntfs21:13
leftyfbhellscaped: why are you using ext2?21:13
hellscapedwhat kde put by default is ext221:13
iconoclastheroanother good question21:13
leftyfbdon't21:14
leftyfbuse ext421:14
hellscapedits already been 15 minutes21:14
leftyfbhellscaped: up to you. IF you don't care about the data on it, by all means, stick with ext221:15
leftyfbext2 isn't journaled21:15
hellscapedoh shi ok21:16
hellscapedim back21:22
rboxueberall: no, the elf format has nothing to do with what compiler optimziations or march it was set for21:49
rboxueberall: the kernel doesnt even support 386 anymore21:49
sanniguys22:44
sannihelp me22:45
sanniwho can help me22:45
=== sanni is now known as F3D0R4
F3D0R4s22:45
leftyfb!ask | F3D0R422:45
ubottuF3D0R4: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience22:45
F3D0R4!how can install hexchat22:45
Bashing-om!info hexchat22:47
ubottuhexchat (2.16.1-1build2, mantic): IRC client for X based on X-Chat 2. In component universe, is optional. Built by hexchat. Size 361 kB / 1,047 kB22:47
JanCthey are already gone22:47
leftyfbthey left22:47
Bashing-omdrive bye shoters !22:48
form76Is there some way to choose which packages install during setup with the desktop iso? I don't want LibreOffice or a bunch of other random junk.22:50
leftyfbform76: no, just remove them after22:50
form76I remember installing... I don't know, RedHat in 2005 or so and was able to choose packages. A long time ago, I know.22:51
leftyfbform76: Ubuntu is not Redhat22:51
ravageif you want a minimal system  install Ubuntu server22:51
form76thanks, that's really helpful. I'll try to remember they're not the same thing!22:51
form76ravage How hard is it to install Gnome on server?22:52
ravagesudo apt install ubuntu-desktop22:52
form76it's really that simple?22:53
ravageit is that simple22:53
form76wow, thanks22:53
rboxrunning a few apt purge commands on first boot is immensly easier22:54
rboxalthough isn't that checkbox in the installer22:54
rboxpresent it from installing libreoffice?22:54
form76Maybe I'm going to quickly through the installer and not reading everything, but I usually end up removing at least 40-50 packages after install22:55
leftyfbform76: guess what is a dependency of ubuntu-desktop?22:55
leftyfblibreoffice and 1129 other packages22:56
ravagethere is ubuntu-desktop-minimal22:56
leftyfbas rbox pointed out, it's going to be a lot better experience installing Ubuntu desktop proper and then just remove what you don't want22:56
ravagethats what the installer used to offer too. at least on 22.0422:56
ravagei dont know about newer versions22:56
form76so I should install ubuntu-desktop-minimal if I don't want a ton of unnecessary packages?22:58
leftyfbI prefer to have my system fully working and integrated and then remove packages I don't want. Otherwise you're spending time trying to figure out why sound or printing doesn't work right22:58
form76I don't need sound, printing, office software, games22:58
form76bluetooth22:58
ravagethe minimal desktop package has all you need really22:59
ravageit just does not have some preinstalled software22:59
form76I'll give that a try22:59
ravagebut you can really do that from the desktop installer form7623:00
ravageon 23.10 it is even the default https://i.imgur.com/a6aTZJg.png23:00
form76Where am I missing the setting?23:00
ravageon 22.04 for example you have to select minimal23:00
ravagethe selection is hard to miss really23:00
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form76where are the installed packages defined? Is that easily editable?23:05
ravageno23:06
form76I have a very slow laptop with 32GB soldered emmc23:07
ravagethen maybe try a more lightweight distro in general23:07
form76any suggestions?23:07
ravagemaybe something like xubuntu23:07
ravagehttps://xubuntu.org/requirements/23:08
bray90820Is it just me or is the installer of ubuntu 23.10 super slow23:40
rboxjust you23:41
Zumoalso try to install the LTS version. https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle23:42
form76Is it just me or is this page missing all the content? I can see subheadings on the let but the right half of the page is empty https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-ubuntu-desktop23:46
oerheksform76, correct, i see that too.23:48
ravageform76: same here. there is a link to report that in the footer23:48
oerheksother tutorials are fine. so just this one?23:49
form76Dunno, I was just looking for the tool to write the ISO to a flash drive from Ubuntu.23:49
oerheks!usb23:50
ubottuFor information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent23:50
oerheksjust use the usb-creator tool, standard23:50
ravageform76: from Ubuntu you use "startup disk creator"23:50
form76thanks23:50
oerhekshave fun!23:50
=== KingKeA0 is now known as KingKeA

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